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> Collaboration - Slow Neoclassical Solo (discussion And Upload), Harmonic/Natural Minor and Phrygian Dominant lovers come and join
Nimrandir
post Aug 24 2009, 08:22 PM
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Thanks Emir! smile.gif Most of the time I'm stuck in pentatonics, so this stuff is something new to me.

QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 24 2009, 08:27 PM) *
G dim part before the end was ok.

I just think it does not fit at all there. smile.gif

QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 24 2009, 08:27 PM) *
The problem is when I go for the G major chord earlier, you're playing G minor 3rd notes (Bb). We need major 3rd ( B note ) as the chord is G major.

This one is a bit confusing. I'm using B harmonic minor over the whole Bm->G->Bm/F# bit, and it contains both Bb and B notes. I just thought that Bb sounds kind of evil smile.gif
Also, should I then avoid C# note which is #4 relative to G?
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Emir Hot
post Aug 24 2009, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (twist @ Aug 24 2009, 06:04 PM) *
i attached the gp file i made. Its not exactly what i am playing (notes are the same, but i played a different timing in the end).

Ok Twist here is the fixed one. This is where I changed notes in your GP file:

Bar 8 I changed this pattern into the A major 9 arpeggio because the chord here is A. You played something that sounds like E major. The notes were in the A scale but the resolution was totally out of the A definition. You have the same thing in the bar 16 but I left that one as you played so you decide which one you prefer.

Bar 9 I changed minor 3rd note into major 3rd

Bar 17 The same as for the bar 9

Bar 18 (here I changed the whole line) if you think your one sounded better then you can leave it. I think this makes more sense as your one was too repetitive

Bar 22 Changed 14 - 12 to 15 - 12 as that's the right diminished pattern for Fdim7

Bar 23 Here you had wrong chord on the second guitar. You played F chord but you need F#. I changed it to F#sus4 (half a bar) and F# (the second half). So the lick started with the B note to target that sus4 and then resolve to F# (root note) and A# (major 3rd from F#) I hope you understand this

Bars 24-29 Here I changed your diminished pattern. Now you have some melodic structure and a solid resolution. There were other couple of notes I changed later just for a better note choice even though your ones were in the scale. I noticed you're often finishing prase on the 4th or 7th against the root. That gives completely different dimension and doesn't sound like a resolution. Jazz guys use it a lot but here in the neoclassical style we need to keep things simple obvious and logical. The simplest is to resolve the phrase on the root, 3rd or 5th. You will never go wrong like that. I also changed the end a little so it better matches the backing.

Check your take now and let me know if you're happy with that. I tried to keep it your way as much as I could. This style of music is really not a science. Yngwie Malmsteen has been playing it for ages and still he is using only 3 scales throughout his whole career.



QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Aug 24 2009, 08:22 PM) *
This one is a bit confusing. I'm using B harmonic minor over the whole Bm->G->Bm/F# bit, and it contains both Bb and B notes. I just thought that Bb sounds kind of evil smile.gif
Also, should I then avoid C# note which is #4 relative to G?

That's G major chord. If you want to be specific then it's G lydian or B aeolian because the root key is Bm of the whole thing. B harmonic minor can't be used in this situation but there is space for it on some parts.

p.s. it doesn't let me make a new post. The below GP file is for TWIST

This post has been edited by Emir Hot: Aug 24 2009, 08:54 PM
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Attached File  twist_fixed.gp5 ( 4.78K ) Number of downloads: 28
 


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Emir Hot
post Aug 24 2009, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 24 2009, 03:51 AM) *


Hi

This is where I changed some notes:

Part 1

Bar 2 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string
Bar 8 - 18 instead of 17 on the 1st string
Bar 10 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string
Bar 15 - 9 instead of 11 on the 3rd string. Here your note was correct (6th interval from A root) but that note makes the whole line somehow undefined. Now you have a better kind of A7 arpeggio with the 11th(4th) added.


Part 2

Bar 1 - I just switched 17 and 16 into 16 - 17 on the 4th string as that produces one dissonant note (min 2nd) together with my background melody. This way they have nice harmony in minor 3rd (only on 1 note) instead of that clash
Bar 3 - 18 instead of 17 on the 3rd string
Bar 5 - this is now correct pattern for the F diminished 7. Your rhytmical structure was ok but these notes work better over that chord
Bar 6 - I just resolved the previous diminished line on the F# note (14th fret 1st string)
Bar 8 - 17 instead of 16 on the 4th string as that follows G dim 7 pattern
Bar 9 - 4th fret on the 3rd string instead of 4th string. This now produces B min triad chord (first 3 notes) and F# triad major (second 3 notes). Also you're now not repeating the same note twice in the bar. Very nice line here
Bar 10 and 11 - I changed your ending line here. You started some repetitive patern in Bm pentatonic. Not bad but this now sounds much more neoclassical. That's especially important when you're ending the piece of music. It has to have the "name and surname" and the perfect resolution. If you liked your one then feel free to leave it but there I couldn't hear well defined resolution.

I hope this will now help you with the right approach. I didn't change much, just shifted some wrong notes. Wherever I didn't explain why I moved the note, that one wasn't in the scale smile.gif You were not far, just one fret away most of the time.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Emir Hot: Aug 24 2009, 10:39 PM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  emirpart1_fixed.gp5 ( 2.61K ) Number of downloads: 29
Attached File  emirpart2_fixed.gp5 ( 2.32K ) Number of downloads: 56
 


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Gus
post Aug 24 2009, 11:05 PM
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Hi Emir.
I have figured it out, but I won't be able to meet the deadline.

Is it ok to record it tomorrow (26)?


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Emir Hot
post Aug 24 2009, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE (Gus @ Aug 24 2009, 11:05 PM) *
Hi Emir.
I have figured it out, but I won't be able to meet the deadline.

Is it ok to record it tomorrow (26)?

Yes. While I am mixing the first and the second group smile.gif So far I have received around 10 takes out of almost 30. Looks promissing smile.gif


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leedbreak
post Aug 24 2009, 11:36 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 24 2009, 04:34 PM) *
Hi



Cheers



I will check it out and try to get a take up tonight or tom night at the latest, thanks again smile.gif


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Emir Hot
post Aug 24 2009, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 24 2009, 11:36 PM) *
I will check it out and try to get a take up tonight or tom night at the latest, thanks again smile.gif

Ok take your time smile.gif


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leedbreak
post Aug 25 2009, 12:38 AM
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Since I am such a neo newbie, I have to ask,

Just now looking at your changes in part one.

"Bar 2 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string" 14 is not part of Em
"Bar 8 - 18 instead of 17 on the 1st string" 18 is not part of F# Phry Dom Which I tried to use
"Bar 10 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string" 14 is not part of Em

Looking through part 2 there is a few more you changed from notes of the suggested scale to accidentals
I am betting that once I play them I may aggree they will sound better, why do they sound better or in theory why would you say all these notes are the better choice?

Sorry to keep talking, I just want to learn all I can.

When writting my "first take" I would not have used these all these "accidental notes" (Even if the sounded better to me) for fear that someone would say hey you got tons of accidentals in your take LOLOLOLOL

This post has been edited by leedbreak: Aug 25 2009, 01:01 AM


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Emir Hot
post Aug 25 2009, 12:59 AM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 25 2009, 12:38 AM) *
Since I am such a neo newbie, I have to ask,

Just now looking at your changes in part one.

"Bar 2 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string" 14 is not part of Em
"Bar 8 - 18 instead of 17 on the 1st string" 18 is not part of F# Phry Dom Which I tried to use
"Bar 10 - 14 instead of 13 on the 2nd string" 14 is not part of Em

While I may aggree they may sound better, why do they sound better or in theory why would you say these note are the better choice?

Good point. That's called targeting towards the resolution. In bar 2 that 14th fret is the 6th interval from E which is E dorian and dorian is minor scale. Yes it is still Em. Think of this whole first part like D major scale all the way (except E/G#). Our root is B minor which is a relative minor to D major. Now if you count the modes from D in order you will find that Em is going to be dorian, A will be mixolydian, D will be ionian(major), G will be lydian etc... That's why we need that 14th fret because you're going to resolve on the A chord and that 14th fret becomes major 3rd from A which is what we need.

About bar 8, yes 18 is major 3rd from F# phrygian dominant and that's the note you need. Phrygian dominant has major 3rd in the scale formula. Pure phrygian (which is the 3rd mode from major scale) has minor third. This phrygian dominant is not coming from the major scale. This is the 5th mode of Harmonic minor. So F# phrygian dominant is the 5th mode of B harmonic minor.

I hope this is clear. Feel free to ask anything I am happy to explain


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leedbreak
post Aug 25 2009, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 24 2009, 06:59 PM) *
Good point.
I hope this is clear. Feel free to ask anything I am happy to explain


No not clear. but again I am a newbie and it shouldn't make since. I will just record it as you wrote it and upload the one I like best. Please see the very last edit of my previous post. It is funny


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Emir Hot
post Aug 25 2009, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 25 2009, 01:21 AM) *
No not clear. but again I am a newbie and it shouldn't make since. I will just record it as you wrote it and upload the one I like best. Please see the very last edit of my previous post. It is funny

Hahahah, but accidentals are made for writting music. You shouldn't be scared of that. Actually the whole score should have 2 sharps at the beginning of each note system (score row). That's beacuse we are in B minor key and it has F# and C#. With these two your notes inside each bar won't have that many accidentals as they are defined at the beginning of the score for each F and C note which you write normaly but they sound like F# and C#. If you end up with some more inside the score don't worry, that's all music you wanna write smile.gif


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leedbreak
post Aug 25 2009, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 24 2009, 07:27 PM) *
Hahahah, but accidentals are made for writting music. You shouldn't be scared of that. Actually the whole score should have 2 sharps at the beginning of each note system (score row). That's beacuse we are in B minor key and it has F# and C#. With these two your notes inside each bar won't have that many accidentals as they are defined at the beginning of the score for each F and C note which you write normaly but they sound like F# and C#. If you end up with some more inside the score don't worry, that's all music you wanna write smile.gif


Ok so why did we try to use all the scales, would it have been easier to just say we are in Bm boys, good luck. LOLOLOL

Ahh, that must be the "Neo" part I bet

In this post you are talking gereral math, while in the other post you are talking trigometry or so it feels.

Besides I was not scared of accidentals, I was scared of you. lol


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Emir Hot
post Aug 25 2009, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 25 2009, 01:35 AM) *
Ok so why did we try to use all the scales, would it have been easier to just say we are in Bm boys, good luck. LOLOLOL

Ahh, that must be the "Neo" part I bet

In this post you are talking gereral math, while in the other post you are talking trigometry or so it feels.

Besides I was not scared of accidentals, I was scared of you. lol

Hahah this is funny. No reason to be scared of me smile.gif I am here to help. Regarding "all the scales", we're actually not playing that many. Here is why:

Bm, Em, A, D, G - this is all one scale. Or you can call it like this:

B aeolian, E dorian, A mixolydian, D ionian, G lydian - again all this stuff is just one scale but different root note smile.gif Try it yourself and you'll see. Play B minor scale and just think that your root is A instead of B, you will end up with A mixolidyan.

When you get into modes you will understand this stuff. Don't worry for now. Just record that take and you'll be fine. I am not going to judge your theory knowledge, only your playing this time.


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leedbreak
post Aug 25 2009, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 24 2009, 07:43 PM) *
B aeolian, E dorian, A mixolydian, D ionian, G lydian - again all this stuff is just one scale but different root note smile.gif Try it yourself and you'll see. Play B minor scale and just think that your root is A instead of B, you will end up with A mixolidyan.


Wow, now see I did not know that. I do wish that statement was what you told us to do in the beginning. an easy out. LOLOL
I know it is not all you wanted us to do but I think I would have hit it all a lot closer. Just thinking in Bm scale. I would have known to change the roots, that I did know. I know you said we could use mostly Bm Pent, but that was if we were not sure of the scales use. I thought I was sure.

I will record the take but will need a day longer for sure now, after chatting with you all night.

Again emir, thanks for your amazing patients on the GMC boards. You look kinda mean in your pictures and for sure in your shredding.

Jason

This post has been edited by leedbreak: Aug 25 2009, 02:17 AM


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post Aug 25 2009, 02:43 AM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 24 2009, 08:01 PM) *
You look kinda mean in your pictures and for sure in your shredding.


You haven't seen him ... like THIS:



Then you'll see the kindly young man "beneath the metal" smile.gif


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UncleSkillet
post Aug 25 2009, 02:57 AM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Aug 24 2009, 09:43 PM) *
You haven't seen him ... like THIS:



Then you'll see the kindly young man "beneath the metal" smile.gif



That was a good one. laugh.gif I found it a few nights ago and enjoyed it. smile.gif



@ LeedBreak Emir is a very cool guy that will give it to you nice, straight and honest. Maybe we all have communication issues sometimes because we are an international community but, know one is here to be mean and belittle anyone or anything that is uploaded. I'm looking forward to your final take. smile.gif


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JamesT
post Aug 25 2009, 07:00 AM
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Ok Emir:
Here's my take. I'm still working on the GP file and will upload tomorrow. If you get a chance please take a look at the notation (tomorrow) to see if I've got everything right. I hope I didn't get too carried away on the ending. tongue.gif

Thanks again for the awesome backing track. I can't wait to hear everyone's final mix.

Attached File  20090824_NeoclassicalCollab_wbt.mp3 ( 2.81MB ) Number of downloads: 83

[attachment=17377:20090824...lab_nobt.mp3]

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Velvet Roger
post Aug 25 2009, 07:15 AM
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Emir, sorry for the delays but when I get back from work tonight I will record my take.

Cheers
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twist
post Aug 25 2009, 09:53 AM
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Thanks a lot Emir, i will try to record my take again today!


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Emir Hot
post Aug 25 2009, 10:37 AM
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Ok guys take you time. I am mixing group 1 today so you can send the take tomorrow as well.


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