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> Help please. How would you play this pattern?
j78
post Feb 27 2007, 03:23 PM
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Hey guys,

I am having some trouble figuring out how to play below lick with my picking hand.
I'm almost certain it should be played with sweeping technique (correct me if I'm wrong), but I can't seem to figure out a smooth pattern of up and down movements with my picking hand.
(All notes are 16th notes, by the way)
Any suggestions of how you would play this?


|---19-15------------15-19-15-19-15-------------15
|----------15-----15------------------15-----15----
|--------------16------------------------ 16--------
|----------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance

//J78


This post has been edited by j78: Feb 27 2007, 03:25 PM
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Jeff
post Feb 27 2007, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (j78 @ Feb 27 2007, 03:23 PM) *

Hey guys,

I am having some trouble figuring out how to play below lick with my picking hand.
I'm almost certain it should be played with sweeping technique (correct me if I'm wrong), but I can't seem to figure out a smooth pattern of up and down movements with my picking hand.
(All notes are 16th notes, by the way)
Any suggestions of how you would play this?


|---19-15------------15-19-15-19-15-------------15
|----------15-----15------------------15-----15----
|--------------16------------------------ 16--------
|----------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance

//J78


Alternate picking. I would start with an upstroke on 19 and then down on 15 and repeat through every note afterwards. up, down, up, down...
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Pavel
post Feb 27 2007, 07:33 PM
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I would play it sweep picking but it depends if it is a fast or slow lick!


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j78
post Feb 28 2007, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Feb 27 2007, 07:33 PM) *
I would play it sweep picking but it depends if it is a fast or slow lick!


Thanks for your replies, guys.

It is quite fast ( and as mentioned, all notes are 16th notes) so I doubt that I could play this with strict alternate picking. I am leaning towards sweeping.

Pavel:
If you would play this with sweeping, how would you make the up (U) and down (D) stroke pattern for your picking hand?
Would below suggestion be appropriate, or is there a smoother way to play this? (I threw in a few pull-off's)



|---U--------U--D--D---D--U------U--------U---D--D---D

|---19p-15------------15-19p-15-19p-15--------------15
|------------15----15---------------------15----15----
|---------------16---------------------------16--------
|----------------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------------


Thanks.
//J78
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Pavel
post Feb 28 2007, 11:40 AM
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Yeah this pattern is good!

I asked you if it is fast or slow because even if notes are 16th, if it is a slow tempo the lick will be slow.


--------------------
"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

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j78
post Feb 28 2007, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Feb 28 2007, 11:40 AM) *
Yeah this pattern is good!

I asked you if it is fast or slow because even if notes are 16th, if it is a slow tempo the lick will be slow.


Thanks Pavel,
I'll keep practicing with this pattern.

//J78
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Jeff
post Feb 28 2007, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (j78 @ Feb 28 2007, 10:10 AM) *
Thanks for your replies, guys.

It is quite fast ( and as mentioned, all notes are 16th notes) so I doubt that I could play this with strict alternate picking. I am leaning towards sweeping.

Pavel:
If you would play this with sweeping, how would you make the up (U) and down (D) stroke pattern for your picking hand?
Would below suggestion be appropriate, or is there a smoother way to play this? (I threw in a few pull-off's)



|---U--------U--D--D---D--U------U--------U---D--D---D

|---19p-15------------15-19p-15-19p-15--------------15
|------------15----15---------------------15----15----
|---------------16---------------------------16--------
|----------------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------------


Thanks.
//J78



would it help to get rid of the upstrokes at 19 and just do hammer-on's?:

|---U--------U--D--D--D----------*----------------U---D--D---D

|---19p-15------------15-h19p-15-h19p--15----------------15
|------------15----15------------------------------15-----15----
|---------------16--------------------------------------16--------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|-------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
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Pavel
post Feb 28 2007, 09:39 PM
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I would suggest this picking:


|---U--------U--D--D--D---------------U------------U---D--D---D

|---19p-15------------15-h19p-15-h19p--15----------------15--
|------------15----15------------------------------15-----15------
|---------------16--------------------------------------16----------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|-------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------------------------------------

This post has been edited by Pavel: Feb 28 2007, 09:41 PM


--------------------
"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

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j78
post Mar 1 2007, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Feb 28 2007, 09:39 PM) *
I would suggest this picking:
|---U--------U--D--D--D---------------U------------U---D--D---D

|---19p-15------------15-h19p-15-h19p--15----------------15--
|------------15----15------------------------------15-----15------
|---------------16--------------------------------------16----------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|-------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------------------------------------


This was much better, eventhough it was a very small change. It gives a more smooth sound to it and it also gives you a tiny, but needed, "breathing room" between the down-sweep and up-sweep motion.
Thanks alot Pavel!

//J78
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Jeff
post Mar 1 2007, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE (j78 @ Mar 1 2007, 10:18 AM) *
This was much better, eventhough it was a very small change. It gives a more smooth sound to it and it also gives you a tiny, but needed, "breathing room" between the down-sweep and up-sweep motion.
Thanks alot Pavel!

//J78


Question about this: If you were to pick on 19, then wouldn't you want to remove the pull-off to 15 and pick both? What's the point of the pull-off to 15? If you did that then wouldn't you want to follow with a down stroke on 15?

Hey - I don't know man. Don't mean to belabor this. Sorry- my last post on it. tongue.gif

|---U--------U--D--D--D---------------U?--D?----U---D--D---D

|---19p-15------------15-h19p-15-h19p--15----------------15--
|------------15----15------------------------------15-----15------
|---------------16--------------------------------------16----------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|-------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
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j78
post Mar 2 2007, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE (jeff @ Mar 1 2007, 09:17 PM) *
Question about this: If you were to pick on 19, then wouldn't you want to remove the pull-off to 15 and pick both? What's the point of the pull-off to 15? If you did that then wouldn't you want to follow with a down stroke on 15?

Hey - I don't know man. Don't mean to belabor this. Sorry- my last post on it. tongue.gif

|---U--------U--D--D--D---------------U?--D?----U---D--D---D

|---19p-15------------15-h19p-15-h19p--15----------------15--
|------------15----15------------------------------15-----15------
|---------------16--------------------------------------16----------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|-------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------------------------------------


Hey Jeff,

I see your point, and I am sure both suggestions are equally good. But for me, I found it easier with Pavel's suggestion. For some reason that extra down-stroke that you suggest, kind of interrupted my rythm... But I suspect that it's because of my shortcomings as a shredder. smile.gif
I'm sure better skilled players would have no problems with your suggestion above.

//J78
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Pavel
post Mar 2 2007, 11:23 AM
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Here is a little tip for your pattern Jeff: never play two picks in the same direction ex.: up-up. down-down - if you have fast licks or sweeps or anything and you play those 2 picks without the "breathing area". It's not good.


---U?--D?----U---D--

In this part of pattern you changed your picking direction 4 times - that's not a sweep. If you decide to play it with sweeping than you should play with sweeping technique. And if you want to alternate pick than you'll have a nightmare moving between strings all the way.

Also - pull-off to 15th fret is very useful there - in sweeping shapes that have 2 notes on one string we always do a pull-off or hammer-on.


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"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

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Jeff
post Mar 2 2007, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Mar 2 2007, 11:23 AM) *
Here is a little tip for your pattern Jeff: never play two picks in the same direction ex.: up-up. down-down - if you have fast licks or sweeps or anything and you play those 2 picks without the "breathing area". It's not good.
---U?--D?----U---D--

In this part of pattern you changed your picking direction 4 times - that's not a sweep. If you decide to play it with sweeping than you should play with sweeping technique. And if you want to alternate pick than you'll have a nightmare moving between strings all the way.

Also - pull-off to 15th fret is very useful there - in sweeping shapes that have 2 notes on one string we always do a pull-off or hammer-on.


I understand about not playing two picks in the same direction u,u, d,d. This is not my pattern. I originally suggested the hammer-on's and pull-off's as an alternative. What I mean to question is the use of an upstroke on 19 when you are hammering-on to it from 15 and then pulling back off as you have suggested. I really don't care.

I prefer longer vertical sweeping patterns anyway as opposed to this type of riff where I would alternate pick it to build speed and practice that way. I don't mean to argue this point any longer and I apologize if I sound like a jack ass.

Jeff
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Pavel
post Mar 2 2007, 03:10 PM
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Man i didn't tell you anything wrong - why are you angry?? smile.gif smile.gif

I am playing sweeps for 2 years now and that's why i am giving you my expirience. You can play it whatever way you want, it's the same to me but i only suggest you how to play it.

You asked for a suggestion - you got it! It's up to you to decide how to play it! smile.gif


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"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

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Jeff
post Mar 2 2007, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Mar 2 2007, 03:10 PM) *
Man i didn't tell you anything wrong - why are you angry?? smile.gif smile.gif

I am playing sweeps for 2 years now and that's why i am giving you my expirience. You can play it whatever way you want, it's the same to me but i only suggest you how to play it.

You asked for a suggestion - you got it! It's up to you to decide how to play it! smile.gif


Very Very sorry man! I don't mean to sound angry - you are right and I apologize for that! sad.gif

I'm having a bad day. I think you are an awesome guitarist. I wish I could play like you and your suggestions are right on. Your lessons are great and you are a fantastic teacher. I don't want to get off on the wrong foot so I offer my appologies to you. Please accept it and keep up the great work! smile.gif
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Pavel
post Mar 2 2007, 05:05 PM
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Hey maaan - it's all ok!! We all have bad days sometimes.

Sometimes it's very hard to find the best way to play something and than you have to play 1 pattern, than play another one and decide which one is better for you!

So, keep investigating different patterns and enjoy shredding man!


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"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

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fkalich
post Mar 2 2007, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Mar 2 2007, 05:05 PM) *
Hey maaan - it's all ok!! We all have bad days sometimes.

Sometimes it's very hard to find the best way to play something and than you have to play 1 pattern, than play another one and decide which one is better for you!

So, keep investigating different patterns and enjoy shredding man!


Be nice to Pavel. He he doing us a favor.

I think this is from Canon Rock in D, well it is for sure in that. Have you ever looked at the sweeps in that Pavel? Actually, a lesson that covered those sweeps would be something a lot of people would appreciate. If you look around on youtube, different people play them different ways. There is a tab out there on it by the first guy to put this out, named JerryC. His sweeping is a bit hard to figure out, I mean, if you watch him, well I would like your analysis. Maybe Kris would approve a lesson on this, and pay you. I think it would be popular.
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Pavel
post Mar 2 2007, 09:08 PM
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I personally don't see anything special in that Canon Rock - i don't know why so many people love it. But i will check out the tabs.

Edit:

Well i just tried to find the tabs and on his website but the section is under construction so can you please send me or give an alternative link to the Canon tabs?

This post has been edited by Pavel: Mar 2 2007, 09:09 PM


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"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

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fkalich
post Mar 2 2007, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Pavel @ Mar 2 2007, 09:08 PM) *
I personally don't see anything special in that Canon Rock - i don't know why so many people love it. But i will check out the tabs.

Edit:

Well i just tried to find the tabs and on his website but the section is under construction so can you please send me or give an alternative link to the Canon tabs?


I attached the file, you can open it in your browser. Hopefully. You can also find it at www.ultimate-guitar.com searching under song names with the name canon rock. The five star version with 155 votes is the one provided by JerryC. Most of the sweeps are similar to those you have shown here. Although the thing is, if you listen to the JerryC version, well to me the sweeps sounds different, very percussive. I have listened to the first JerryC sweep slowed down (just before the part of the song that is familiar to the public). I am not sure that he is even following what the tab specifies. His sweep has a percussive 1-2-3-4 feel to it that stands out. But I am not sure where the 1, the 2, the 3, and the 4 lie. I know a lot of people are always asking about these sweeps on internet. I have heard other versions where the notes sound at more precise timings, as tabbed. Or where sweeps are done differently. Some guy named funtwo does them all in one hand position.

I only have worked though 2/3 of it, it has the first difficult sweep, then a few 3 strings sweep sequences. However I can hear some tricky sweeps in the last 1/3 of the song.

Thanks in advance. Your analysis would be very appreciated. I think part of it may be, that JerryC is a bit junky, and that makes it confusing. Not sure about that. I still like his rendition though.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Mar 3 2007, 12:28 AM
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Pavel
post Mar 3 2007, 01:26 AM
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Ok - thanks for the link - i downloaded the Guitar Pro file!

The sweeps there are not too difficult - you just have to master the basic 3 string shapes and later it's just repeating of group of notes.... i know it sounds confusing but if you are not good with sweeps better spend your time practicing sweeps - later you'll be able to play this whole song as a warm-up before practicing! smile.gif

As for the noise and "junk" playing - as soon as you get the same frets happening like this:

|---19p-15------------15-|
|------------15----15-----|
|---------------16---------|

or

|---18p-15------------15-|
|------------15----15-----|
|---------------15---------|


....you'll have noise. As soon as there is a barred sweep - you won't be able to make it perfect sounding. That's why Rusty Cooley said he always avoids the barred sweep picking. Same goes for Michael Angelo Batio.

Oh right - i almost forgot: there are a lot places in music and notation where you'll meet some strange number of notes that you just can't count in. These places are played freestyle! If you've seen my Mixed Solo Lesson where there is a small tapping lick - well - there are 29 of 16ths notes in that lick. It's not possible to count with metronome - that's the place that you have to play freestyle - the only thing is to play it fast enough to make into the tempo.

So my suggestion is - not to go for someone's song playing - but practice the technique itself and later it will be very easy to play.

I don't know if i can help you any more here. As long as i don't know what bothers you i wan't be able to answer the question. So if you have an exact problem - feel free to ask!

Keep rocking!


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"It isn't how many years you have been playing, it's how many hours." -- Prashant Aswani

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!" -- Michael Angelo Batio

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

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