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-Zion-
post Sep 3 2009, 10:41 AM
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Hi Ivan

Great lessons you have here.. i just have some questions..

I dont know much about modes, but i do know that the modes in a given key all contain the same notes, but different roots.

So i guess my question is:
On your workshop you are starting out with the Phrygian mode (E), which you also name position 1. I would assume that the Ionian would be the first position because we are in the key of C.

Are you beginning with the Phrygian mode just because:
1) You just want to begin at the start of the fretboard and not on the low C (8th fret)
2) The C major scale is the "simplest" as it contains no sharps or flats (instead of ie: E Ionian)
3) The Phrygian mode *really IS* the first position?!

also, i was talking to a guy about modes some time ago and the way he was thinking about modes was always based on the pentatonic scale.. He did this because he had thorough knowledge about this particular scale (it's usually the first we learn etc.).

But from the pentatonic scale he said to himself (lets take the Aeolian scale in C major)
"Okay, so how can i create the A Aeolian mode based of the A minor pentatonic"

Well, he just needs to add two more notes.. and those notes are a flattened 3rd (B note) and sharpened 5th (F note) (forgive me if this is not completely correct in the theory, but i hope you get the idea)

it seemed like a good idea to me, but what do you think?? would it be better to learn the actual position patterns completely or would it be a good idea to think "lower the 3rd", "raise the 5th" (in this particular case)??

Thanks in advance,
David

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Sep 3 2009, 10:50 AM
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 3 2009, 06:18 PM
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Hey mate, glad to hear from you.


QUOTE
I dont know much about modes, but i do know that the modes in a given key all contain the same notes, but different roots.

So i guess my question is:
On your workshop you are starting out with the Phrygian mode (E), which you also name position 1. I would assume that the Ionian would be the first position because we are in the key of C.

Are you beginning with the Phrygian mode just because:
1) You just want to begin at the start of the fretboard and not on the low C (8th fret)
2) The C major scale is the "simplest" as it contains no sharps or flats (instead of ie: E Ionian)
3) The Phrygian mode *really IS* the first position?!

The correct answers would be number 1 and 2. I used C major key and just wanted to start from the E note since it is the lowest note. Also, C major key is the simplest and usually the key that we all learn first (wetter in elementary school or when starting with music).


QUOTE
also, i was talking to a guy about modes some time ago and the way he was thinking about modes was always based on the pentatonic scale.. He did this because he had thorough knowledge about this particular scale (it's usually the first we learn etc.).

But from the pentatonic scale he said to himself (lets take the Aeolian scale in C major)
"Okay, so how can i create the A Aeolian mode based of the A minor pentatonic"

Well, he just needs to add two more notes.. and those notes are a flattened 3rd (B note) and sharpened 5th (F note) (forgive me if this is not completely correct in the theory, but i hope you get the idea)

it seemed like a good idea to me, but what do you think?? would it be better to learn the actual position patterns completely or would it be a good idea to think "lower the 3rd", "raise the 5th" (in this particular case)??

This is a good way to look at pentatonic modes and corresponding diatonic modes, so you can match them to some extent. However I do not believe this method is good by itself, it's more of a perception thing when you look at the patterns and add certain notes and complicates things by a long way.

There are couple reasons for this:

1. pentatonic scale has only 5 modes, and you can make 5 diatonic modes out of those 5 pentatonic scales by simply adding 2 notes in every mode. For example if you have C major pentatonic scale and 4 other C major pentatonic modes, you can add F and B notes in every mode and make diatonic modes. However you will still be lacking two diatonic modes, and those are Lydian and Locrian (F and B as roots).

2. Ti simplify things one can say that you can add F and B to C major or 4 remaining pentatonic modes, and disregard the intervals for now. It would be very confusing to remember that you have to add different kinds of intervals to each individual mode. For example you said you are adding "flattened 3rd (B note) and sharpened 5th (F note)" to the A minor pentatonic scale, which is one of the modes of the scale containing C D E G A. However if you take for example C major pentatonic scale, you will add now F as perfect 4th and B as major 7th interval to create diatonic. Same goes for other 3 modes not mentioned - each one has it's own specific interval function for F & B notes, unique to that pentatonic mode. This leads to the case that you have to remember 5x2=10 intervals that are adding up for what are actually only two notes. IMO just adding them in corresponding slots on the fretboard is enough.

I can recommend that you first learn the pentatonic scale well, and that you learn the mode patterns well. My diatonic pattern CAGED lesson, and pentatonic workshop level 1 CAGED lesson can help you there. Check out these two lessons and you will find 5 positions on the neck, and you can compare them.


Let me know if you have any additional questions

cheers,
Ivan

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Sep 3 2009, 06:19 PM


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-Zion-
post Sep 3 2009, 08:05 PM
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thank you for your input.. it's greatly appreciated.. smile.gif

i think i have a fairly good knowledge of the pentatonic scales now after using it for little over a year..

i just wanted to add something spicy to my soloing.. i know the major scale "so so".. not super well though..

Thanks again..
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 3 2009, 08:17 PM
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No problem man, just keep rocking, and follow your own logic. Everybody has it's own method of learning, so it would be wise to find your own way, cause we all have different view on things. Ofc if someones elses method seems comfortable for you, by all means use it. The important thing is to learn the scales, chords and get those fingers moving. Everything else will come in time smile.gif


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- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
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