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> Req : Tone Lesson
Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 1 2007, 03:05 PM
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Could we have a lesson, or series of shorts on how to get approximations of various signature tones out of our equipment?

I'm thinking along the lines of for instance:

David Gilmour in the Wall managed to get a brilliant slightly brittle tone with which worked well with his elegant pentatonic phrasings. He played a Stratocaster(whatever) with whatever pickups, and had a xyz delay, and abc compressor on his pedalboard. He usually went into a Marshal blah bah and miked it into the desk.

To get something similar, start with a single coil ideally on the neck position, and turn your Amp gain up to about 6 oclock, treble high, mid low, bass low and add a 200ms stereo delay ... like this (cut to video), and play a few sample licks (the licks are important to show off the tone to best effect)


I'm sure a lot of the folks on the board would be good for at least one sound of their favourite guitarist - I have never had a valve amp so I am mystified how some of these sounds come about, but these days, a lot of people have Amp modellers, so should be able to approximate the various tones.

I'd also be interested in how to get various more generic sounds like:

Gently overdriven Strat
BB King style Blues
Death Metal
Buddy Holly style Lead
Jimmy Page Stairway
Purple Rain rythym/Lead

The list is endless ...

Any interest?

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Mar 1 2007, 03:06 PM


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yuriy_boyko
post Mar 1 2007, 03:30 PM
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id be very interested in tone lessons too biggrin.gif
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fretdancer
post Mar 1 2007, 04:05 PM
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I think the idea is a good one in principle,
Indeed I had hoped to get something similar started previously but it never came off.

My understanding is that amps are completely different, what is a blues setting on one amp, comes out as a metal sound on another, whats clean on one is dirty on another, setting drive to 2 on one amp is only replicated on another by setting to 6, and so on. I never thought guitars made *that* much difference to the final output, but they do apparently. Speaker size effects the bass/treble/middle settings substantially.

Therefore, its virtually impossible to do.

I hope that what I say is completely wrong though as its a really cool idea.


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buckjones
post Mar 1 2007, 07:44 PM
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in a sense fretdancer you are correct... it would take a huge amount of understanding how the tone works on your amp and your guitar to be able to correctly match the sound... and in some cases may be completely impossible.

i love the idea you guys present though... i think it should most definitely be attempted with the understanding that it may or may not work for each of us...

just my 2 cents!!! biggrin.gif

nate


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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 2 2007, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (buckjones @ Mar 1 2007, 01:44 PM) *
in a sense fretdancer you are correct... it would take a huge amount of understanding how the tone works on your amp and your guitar to be able to correctly match the sound... and in some cases may be completely impossible.

i love the idea you guys present though... i think it should most definitely be attempted with the understanding that it may or may not work for each of us...

just my 2 cents!!! biggrin.gif

nate


Well I kind of agree with both of you ( which is a polite way of saying I kind of disagree wink.gif ). I think you are right in general, any generic amp won't sound a lot like any other generic amp ... but I am thinking modeling here. If Hendrix uses a Marshall XYZ, chances are that my Pod XTL would have that model or a similar one. Also, I'm thinking that if we get advice to get us somewhere near we can tweak it the rest of the way ourselves - this kind of lesson would at least get us started, and get us into the right tone family, or so I hope ...


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My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
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Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
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brainlesswonder
post Mar 2 2007, 05:35 AM
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That's always a tough one. Most guitarists that I recognize have very distinct rigs and equipment. Trying to replace amps and guitars with digital effects is something that I never liked. For example, my favorite guitar sound was always East Bay Ray of the Dead Kennedys, but no digital delay ever quite hit the sound that the tape/tube delay he used did. When I finally bought the delay (nearly 30 years old), I nailed the sound I wanted.

On the bright side, Keith Richards uses the same delay so I can pull off an exact Stones sound. However, try to get "The Wall" out of a Peavey amp and Ibanez and you end up with something good enough to fool your friends, but not good enough to fool yourself.

If you want Buddy Holly, get yourself the Strat, an old Fender Twin (or a magnatone 280), some Black Diamond strings and knock yourself out!
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buckjones
post Mar 2 2007, 06:41 PM
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i completely understand what you're saying brainlesswonder but at the same time for most of us the digital effects aren't going to break the bank, just dent it a little tongue.gif as for sound quality, its just like comparing solid state to tube amps... the tubes will ALWAYS give you a warmer more natural sound, but the solid state is much more affordable and with little or no upkeep on them it can be the more cost effective buy.

at the same time there is no true replacement for the real thing...

and i just want to put it out there that i do support a lesson that will help guide us in the right direction to try to replicate the sounds of the great guitarists out there even if it doesn't bring on the real thing!! dry.gif

nate


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brainlesswonder
post Mar 3 2007, 02:29 AM
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QUOTE (buckjones @ Mar 2 2007, 12:41 PM) *
i completely understand what you're saying brainlesswonder but at the same time for most of us the digital effects aren't going to break the bank, just dent it a little tongue.gif as for sound quality, its just like comparing solid state to tube amps... the tubes will ALWAYS give you a warmer more natural sound, but the solid state is much more affordable and with little or no upkeep on them it can be the more cost effective buy.

at the same time there is no true replacement for the real thing...

and i just want to put it out there that i do support a lesson that will help guide us in the right direction to try to replicate the sounds of the great guitarists out there even if it doesn't bring on the real thing!! dry.gif

nate


I guess it just depends on what you want to do with your rig. While I like playing a cover now and then, I'm much more oriented around my own song writing than anything else. Overtime I've developed a very particular sound. Now, I certainly don't begrudge someone wanting to sound like every guitarist that they like, but trying to digitally change a strat into a Les Paul and an Ibanez into a telecaster is seems like way too much effort.

HOWEVER

If someone really wants to match a tone they really only have to put on a song and putz around with their guitar and amp settings until they come close. Likewise, doing a google search on a particular album will usually give you alot of information about the equipment used and then you just need to understand whatever piece of digital equipment you have well enough to mimmick it.
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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 5 2007, 08:32 AM
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This is a good idea (a polite way of saying I suck at getting other people's tone biggrin.gif). Perhaps a starter would be if people who get good tone in their uploads can explain how they achieved it - and we could gather that at some place?


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Ron
post Mar 5 2007, 11:22 PM
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I have no idea about how to start replicating a tone, but here's a site I stumbled on recently:

Guitar Geek

And an example rig:

Joe Satriani's Rig

Those more knowledgable than me can say whether the site would be useful or not. smile.gif

Ron
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blindwillie
post Mar 28 2007, 12:28 PM
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For the Pink Floyd-ish sound I can point you this way:
http://www.mikesguitarsite.co.uk/gear/pink_floyd/
http://www.gilmourish.com/


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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 28 2007, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE (blindwillie @ Mar 28 2007, 07:28 AM) *
For the Pink Floyd-ish sound I can point you this way:
http://www.mikesguitarsite.co.uk/gear/pink_floyd/
http://www.gilmourish.com/


Great links, thanks!


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Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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