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playaxeman
post Sep 4 2009, 05:51 PM
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Hello Muris,


Thanx for having me in the MTP. It feels great to be mentored by a great guitarist like you.

Well my name is Robert. I started playing guitar I think it was between my 12- 14 year. Now i am 44 already. ( life goes fast... when having fun..)

I started probably to impress girls tongue.gif No kindding

The reason I started playing is I heard Mark Farmer of Grand Fund Railroad, Alvin Lee of TYA and Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple. I wanted to learn that.
Later I heard Jimi Hendrix play and I loved his playing.

When I was younger I only loved hard rock & Metal band like Kiss, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, UFO, Scorpions, Rush, Ted Nugent, THIN LIZZY, Michael Schenker.

But now I love all kind of music: funk (T.O.P.), blues (bb king Clapton, Jeff Heally, SRV, RobbenFord) , fusion, rock, disco, pop as long as there is good guitar in the song.

I never took guitar playing very serious when I was young I though that I didn' t have to practice. You had it in you or not (kinda black/white thinking) and I was spending lot of time in sport (Karate, soccer, ninjutsu)

But that has changed since I am playing in a few cover bands sine 1,5 year. ( Wish I was now 15 year old with GMC around.... biggrin.gif ) I have tasted how it is to play for a few hundred people with a band, I was the lead guitarist, playing stuff I didn't know what I was playing when I improviced on a lead take.. I don't want to make mistakes on stage or when I am playing. I want to play in a the way like breathing or walking: do it natural not forced.

So that why I started looking for lessons: to learn it once an for all biggrin.gif .

First I googled a bit and the I found GMC. Never thought there would be a site where your could wonderful lesson like these .

I take practising very serious since then.
But I have no knowledge of theory, scales, modes etc. So when Iimprovise I do it by ear not knowing what I am doing. Mostly it is minor pentatonic stuff. But it has no structure and therefore most of my phrasing is weak. That is what I think.

Since GMC I have been working to learn all the 5 minor pentat boxes. I think I have managed to learn them by hard but still when I improve with these boxes my worked isn' t that exciting as some of the instructor are doing with the same boxed. I am missing the salt to make them taste tasty.


My overall goal is to become a (good) all-round guitarist. I want to handle with confident blues, funk, (hard)rock, fusion, pop style of music.

Problem is where to start to become one. ( It is a long journey... I guess)but I don' t have a practice routine. But I play every day a few hours if possible.


my weak points and goals are:

- theory my goal: being able to put theory in practice: improvise without playing wrong notes and play beyond box 1

- weak phrasing : goal better phrasing and recall what your are playing I never seem to manage that

weak rhythm phrasing: Goal better rhythm in phrasing and placement

-weak structure in my solo: goal: play a structure solo and lear to make them myself

weak technique. Goal: basic sweeping, AP, legato, tapping.

-weak chord progression knowledge: Goal: being able to understand why a 3 chord song works and write simple songs

Other goals:
- learn about chord inversion
- chord relationship chord substitution maj- min ( C --> Am work okay)
- used modes in my solo's to spice up my range


Here are some recent takes for the rec program:







I have some recording of myself improvising if you like to have them to get some opinion just ask.

Well that is all for now. I am looking forward to be in a MTP by you, Muris.

Let start this journey... I am excited...so let go..

Cheers
Robert

This post has been edited by Muris Varajic: Oct 23 2009, 04:33 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 4 2009, 07:42 PM
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Thanks for this great and full of info intro Robert, welcome to my MTP!! smile.gif

However I WOULD appreciate a lot if you could also post
some of those improvised takes, just to see how it is working so far.

And smooth improvising is kind a ultimate goal for every serious musician
and that's why we're gonna focus a LOT on improvising an exploring the fretboard,
along with working on different styles, techniques etc.

What I really liked in your playing from what I've seen is that
you are not trying to push things just like that,
you tend to keep the same feel and calmness all the time
which is very smart and good thing to do.
Perhaps your current technique doesn't allow you to spice things up a little
but we'll fix that eventually. smile.gif

So let's try with this slow and emotional piece in E minor.
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...r-melodic-solo/
And here's a backing as well.
Attached File  Em_Melodic_Solo___BT_58_bpm.mp3 ( 1.28MB ) Number of downloads: 8

Perhaps you already played this lesson but never mind,
I would like to see you playing it for me
AND try to record few improvisations as well,
then we'll discuss about them and see the weak points, try to fix them etc.

Also if there are any other lessons from me that you're working on atm
please do let me know so we could cover those as well in similar way.

Now few things about theory.
How good is your knowledge in your opinion,
what do you know and what confuses you the most,
how is your understanding of modes etc?

Welcome once again and looking forward to hear from you soon. smile.gif


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maharzan
post Sep 5 2009, 03:50 AM
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Welcome aboard Robert. Just wanted to say hi to you. Pretty cool PRS you have there. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Sep 5 2009, 09:58 PM
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Hi there Muris,

I have be looking for my old improv's a thought there where on my old desk top. But apparently I have deleted them:couldn't bear to listen to them I guess wink.gif . So I will drop an few new improv.in the next time

Well it is a good question (How good is your knowledge in your opinion,)

I have been thinking all day what to say. I can say that i have very basic knowledge.

1) I know basic chords are based on 1-3 5 interval
2) I am aware of maj and minor interval
3) I know maj scale formula (wwhwwwh: c-d-e-f-g-a-b-c-d) based on that I know how to make chord and extentions like Csus4= C-E-F-G)
4) I know that 6 interval in the major scale gets me to the relative minor (C-->A)
5) If I am in minor I know if i go up a 3th interval I end up with the relative major (Am--> C)
6) I know most songs are based on I V IV progression (C- G F)
7) I know if i play above progression I can use the C-maj scale to solo over but I mostly prefer to use the Am pentatonic. With C maj I have problems to play the right notes on the right spot to let it sound OK, with Am it seem easier.

8) I don't know what modes I can use in the C-F-G progression. In Basis I know what modes are. There are 7 modes with funny names, I can't recall (jet!!). Each mode starts on the next note using the same maj scale formula are but I don't know they by name and I never used them when I play (unless it is in a lesson on GMC) (They are aliens to me right now and I guess I am gonna meet them at this journy laugh.gif laugh.gif )

9) I also know the minor scale formula derived from the A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A: WHWWHWW
10) I also know if i don't see a sharp sign # the key of a song is in C/Am so
11) Most chord will be like:


Variations -
Scale I ii iii IV V vi vii
C major scale Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7b5

12) If there is one # sign the key of the songs is G/Em ( if ther are more the one # sign I have to get a book to see what key a song is in. I don't know it by hard:

but i know this trick to figure it out:


13) I know next scale is always 5 th interval (C--> G) ( G-->D)
14) The note that will get # in the next scale is on the 4 th interval: C--F F become F# in G scale. So the 4 th interval C become C# in the next scale with is on the 5 interval and that is D.

That is my basic knowledge I can think of now.

I like the melody of the piece in E minor very much.
I has some tension in it, the notes combine perfect and i really like the pentatonic part very much.

What is makes it hard for me to play is the string skipping. I need to focus because my fingers are not on the right string. So it will take some time a can do that.

At the moment I am doing a tone relation lesson of Sinisa (https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/tone_relations/) because the only REC I did where solo parts this lesson is a good combination between RHYTHM/Riffing.
After that I was planning to do your lesson on the MJ tribute part 2. There are many part to learn on that one.

Me and my cover band are planning a gig in Feb 2010 and we are planning to do a musical journey through time: start in the 56-60 and end up in present. Instead of doing the instrumental Santana piece I wanted to do your lesson instead, as a tribute to MJ. wink.gif Off course I would have ask you for permission wink.gif

So a long story I was. Time to practice

Question about this lesson:
1) I starts of in Em so the notes are :E F#/Gb G A B C D
That means that the chord that are used are:
Bm7 /Bsus, B--> V (5 th interval)
EM: I
AM: IV
Gmaj7: III
F#: II
Fmaj7;??? not on the E scal. How is that?

2) Starts off with Em arpeggio what intervals are used there?
3) Goes into Am arp what intervals are used there?
What makes these combination of interval make it sound so good?


Cheers Muris
Robert

p.s. these are lessons of yours I have done for the REC program:

steve style:


Rock in Bm:


This post has been edited by playaxeman: Sep 5 2009, 10:27 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 5 2009, 11:26 PM
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Wow, great reply, well done Robert! smile.gif

Ok, let me try to interact here by saying few words
on every mark that you have made above.

1) Yes, those ARE triads made of 3 notes, root, 3rd and 5th.
They can be major, minor, diminished augmented tho.
2) That"s good, however there are also diminished and augmented intervals, will talk about those later.
3) Formula was good but I have to correct you on Csus4 chord,
sus4 actually means "suspended 3rd, added 4th" so there's no E note at all, F takes its place.
4) Good.
5) Also good.
6) Indeed they are, in both major and minor keys that progression always works well,
tonic or I, subdominant or VI and dominant or V.
There's a reason for that, with those 3 triads we are covering the whole scale!
7) That's experience problem and with more playing in different keys it'll be solved.
8) There are 7 indeed and names are: Ionian (same as major scale), Dorian, Phrygian,
Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian (same as minor scale) and finally Locrian (rarely in use).
One thing tho, in order to figure out modes as soon as possible I'm asking you to
forget about the approach you mentioned "Each mode starts on the next note using the same maj scale formula..."
There's another way and much more efficient in practice imo, I'll explain it to you later on.
9) That was ok.
10) That is most likely correct unless it's a mode as a key.
11) Correct, and that chord formula works for all major keys as well.
12) No problem, you'll memorize them easily.
13) Yes, that would be circle of 5ths, scales with sharps.
There is also circle of 4ths, that's how we make scales/keys with flats.
First one (after C) is F, it has Bb.
Then we have Bb, with Bb and Eb inside etc.
14) There is another way to expect which note is gonna be with # in next scale but
nonetheless, that one you mentioned was also good.


Now to answer your questions about the lesson! smile.gif
1) First of all, it's always F#, not Gb.
It does sounds the same but it's diatonic scale and we cannot have 2 notes in scale
staring with the same letter, like Gb and then G, has to be F# and G.
You remember how scale looks like written in notation?
Looks like a scale, each note in different spot in notation system.
And every spot starts with different letter as well. smile.gif
Chord F you asked?
Yeah, that one is out of scale, taken from E Phrygian to spice things up a little.
And now its time to explain the approach for modes.
There is to need to look at Phrygian as 3rd degree in some major scale,
you would have to go 3 steps down, it's too much work and takes too much time imo.
Instead of that think of Phrygian as a minor scale with flat 2nd,
in E minor we have F# note while in E Phrygian we have F, that's all!
And because of that F note now we also have a new chord available, chord F.
2) Yeah, there is kind a broken Em chord played in lead.
actually it's Em7 if we look at first 4 notes.
Em7 arpeggio (or chord, which is the same) goes like this: E, G, B and D.
And what I did with it is that I inverted order of notes.
First I played root on A string, then 5th on D string (note cool.gif, then I continued to ascending
the melody by playing 3rd on B string (note G) and finally 7th on high E (D note).
The same formula is applied in Am (Am7 arpeggio) but on different strings, staring from low E.

And yeah, those broken chords in solos do sound very sweet,
specially if you play them with wider intervals and not just note by note.
It's wider intervals what makes them sound that good. smile.gif



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playaxeman
post Sep 5 2009, 11:45 PM
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Hello Muris,

That is also a great repaly. tongue.gif Thx.

I think I understood everything you wrote there.

I am working on the Em lesson an it is going better. I stared slow with every arp. And speeds up the tempo
Now I now the degree of the notes I will get better understanding of what I am playing ther and why it sounds good.

I will try to incorporate this technique in an improve it will drop in this tread.

I also will study the scales in the lesson.

First thing I noticed on the Em scale printed on the main page off the lesson is that if you start for the Low E string 5th fret it is almost Am scale apart for the F# oof course. If I look at it this way the next time I play in Gmaj I can use this picture in my head of the Am (which is Em) to recall what position to play.


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 6 2009, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (playaxeman @ Sep 6 2009, 12:45 AM) *
First thing I noticed on the Em scale printed on the main page off the lesson is that if you start for the Low E string 5th fret it is almost Am scale apart for the F# oof course. If I look at it this way the next time I play in Gmaj I can use this picture in my head of the Am (which is Em) to recall what position to play.


It's exactly the same pattern or fingering as you noticed
and it works for all minor scales out there,
you just have to move the whole thing few frets up or down and you'll be playing
some other minor scale!
No worries, with enough work you'll be equally comfortable to play both in minor and major keys. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Sep 7 2009, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Sep 6 2009, 01:01 AM) *
It's exactly the same pattern or fingering as you noticed
and it works for all minor scales out there,
you just have to move the whole thing few frets up or down and you'll be playing
some other minor scale!
No worries, with enough work you'll be equally comfortable to play both in minor and major keys. smile.gif



Hi Muris,

What is the best way to learn these scales?

What would your approach be?

There must be a way to cement those patters that have very much in common.

Second questions:

1) The only difference between the Em (natural=E F# G A B C D) and Em harmonic scale (E F# G A B C D#) is # 7 th interval? So it has another interval formula? And why is there a Em Harmonic; why was'n't the natural minor scale just enough?

2) E Phrygian= E F G A B C D. This is missing a #2 th interval, what happened to it? Does it has a interval formula? This looks like Am starting from the E note.

Cheers
Robert

p.s if I finish this lesson I would like to put in on the REC board. But I will let you judge them first okay?

This post has been edited by playaxeman: Sep 7 2009, 09:52 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 8 2009, 01:52 AM
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Well, I like to see a scale within intervals all over the fretboard.

Lets stick with minor scale per example, first position, 3nps.
You have root, 2nd and 3rd on one string,
then goes 4th, 5th and 6th on another,
then 7th, root and 2nd on another string etc.
You need to visualize those intervals
but also it's very important to listen to them,
listening is crucial in a long term,
comes great with improvising, transcribing and everything.

So play it for a while, remember formula and fingering,
then move to 2nd position and do the same, then 3rd position etc.

All minor scales have same formulas,
after you REALLY figure out how one of them works and looks like over the fretboard
it'll be a piece of cake to play them all, even without looking at fretboard.

Same goes with major scales ofc, you can try the same method.

Once more, this is just a method, not a short cut cause there is no short cut,
you really need to spend some time playing those scales up and down to learn them properly. smile.gif

E natural minor and E harmonic minor are indeed 2 different scales,
cause of the 7th degree which you mentioned, D becomes D# in harmonic minor.
And with that change the formula is changed as well,
now you have whole tone and a half between 6th and 7th degree,
in natural minor it was whole tone or whole step.
This 7th degree also brings us one VERY important chord in progression,
now we have major dominant, B chord.
In natural minor it was Bm chord, called minor dominant,
it also sound much softer compared to this B major chord.
And that's why I used E harmonic minor at the end of the lesson
putting this B major chord in progression,
to have a stronger cadence!
Most common cadence is I, IV and V.
Now play those chord in E natural and E Harmonic minor,
it would be Em, Am and Bm in natural minor,
Em, Am and B in harmonic.
You should be able to hear how this B chord strongly seeks resolve,
probably into root chord which is Em.


E Phrygian doesn't miss any interval
but it has different 2nd degree, F instead of F# as in natural minor.
And so the formula is changed as well,
for Phrygian it goes like this : H W W W H W W.
And if you invert first 2 letters in the formula, it's the same as minor scale formula,
change made my flat 2nd degree now reflects first 2 intervals inside the scale, nothing else.

You are right tho, it looks like Am played from E.
But it also looks like C major played from E etc.
Thing is, I asked you to forget about that approach!
Instead of that, compare it with E minor scale and realize the flat 2nd degree.
Em chord is our root chord in E Phrygian, C has no rule here, nor Am.

So in order to get a full use of modes you should first learn major and minor scale nicely,
of course you don't have to wait for that and then start learning modes, no way.
I'm just saying that you'll get most of the modes after you figure out minor and major scale,
after that it's just altering one note in major or minor scale to get a mode.
I explained to you how it works with Phrygian = minor scale with flat 2nd,
I'll also explain you all other modes as we meet them in MTP working on lessons. smile.gif



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playaxeman
post Sep 9 2009, 08:07 AM
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Thx Muris for this great reply ,


I like your method of learning the scales. I will follow that approach.

Talk to you later.

Cheers
Robert


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 9 2009, 11:31 PM
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You're welcome,
let me know if you need further help with anything. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Sep 10 2009, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Sep 10 2009, 12:31 AM) *
You're welcome,
let me know if you need further help with anything. smile.gif


hello Muris

I am working on the Em lesson. Will send a mp3 take asap.

I will also make some improvisations so you know my abilities

What will be the next step?

Cheers
Robert


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 10 2009, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE (playaxeman @ Sep 10 2009, 01:18 PM) *
hello Muris

I am working on the Em lesson. Will send a mp3 take asap.

I will also make some improvisations so you know my abilities

What will be the next step?

Cheers
Robert


Sounds great!
But I would also appreciate a video as well, if possible!

As for next step, that pretty much depends of your takes,
I have to see and hear how it works for you
but I have several ideas, no worries. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Sep 11 2009, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Sep 10 2009, 01:30 PM) *
Sounds great!
But I would also appreciate a video as well, if possible!

As for next step, that pretty much depends of your takes,
I have to see and hear how it works for you
but I have several ideas, no worries. smile.gif



Hello Muris,

I will provide a video as well.

It goes well. I can play the whole lesson by hard. But I don' t have the right speed jet.

If i speed up my fingers get crossed and I play the wrong strings. But I know I soon can play it at the right speed.

Then I will make a video for you.

And then we will see biggrin.gif

Cheers
Robert


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Gear:

Guitars
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 11 2009, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (playaxeman @ Sep 11 2009, 11:27 AM) *
Hello Muris,

I will provide a video as well.

It goes well. I can play the whole lesson by hard. But I don' t have the right speed jet.

If i speed up my fingers get crossed and I play the wrong strings. But I know I soon can play it at the right speed.

Then I will make a video for you.

And then we will see biggrin.gif

Cheers
Robert


Looking forward to it!

Let me know if you would like some slower backing as well. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Sep 11 2009, 03:45 PM
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[quote name='Muris Varajic' date='Sep 8 2009, 02:52 AM' post='420494']
Well, I like to see a scale within intervals all over the fretboard.

Lets stick with minor scale per example, first position, 3nps.
You have root, 2nd and 3rd on one string,
then goes 4th, 5th and 6th on another,
then 7th, root and 2nd on another string etc.
You need to visualize those intervals
but also it's very important to listen to them,
listening is crucial in a long term,
comes great with improvising, transcribing and everything.

So play it for a while, remember formula and fingering,
then move to 2nd position and do the same, then 3rd position etc.

Hello Muris

Have some questions about this method:

I mean am I just starting on Low E ( root) the go to F# (2) and G (3)

from 4, to 5 and 6 on the A string

to 7 8 on the D string and then back to the root on the low E string

Or mix the intervals up like

Start on the E(root) then go to to 3, 6, 7

The go for the last 3 string in first position

second:
What are strong intervals or interval that sound nice if you play them after one another?

when I Play 1- 7 hamer to 8 1 ( low E - D E' E) that sound okay ( a bite like Fath no More )

Cheers
Robert


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 12 2009, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (playaxeman @ Sep 11 2009, 04:45 PM) *
What are strong intervals or interval that sound nice if you play them after one another?


Well that depends of chords in progression.
But if you play over Em chord only (which is root chord)
then almost every single interval (note in a scale)
can be considered as a strong one.
I said almost every cause this depends of type of music,
in jazz it can be literally every note.
But in more "grounded" style not every note sounds as strong one.
However if you play arpeggios it would pretty much sound nice
so try with 1, 3, 5 , 7 etc cause that's how we build chords/arpeggios.

This was you second question, but what was the first one, I missed it? smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Sep 14 2009, 02:19 PM
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Th Muris,

My first question was about the learning scales interval wise.
What is the most pratical kind of thing to do learn
like this:

from interval >> go to interval:
1 >>>>>>>>>2
2>>>>>>>>>3
3>>>>>>>>>4
etc

7>>>>>>>>>6
6>>>>>>>>>5
5>>>>>>>>>4
etc

so play the scale up-down-up-down

or do i mix it up

from interval >>go to interval:
1 >>>>>>>>> 4
4 >>>>>>>>> 6
3>>>>>>>>> 1
8>>>>>>>>> 7

I hope i made myself more clear here.

Cheers
Robert

This post has been edited by playaxeman: Sep 14 2009, 02:22 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 14 2009, 02:39 PM
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Ohh, I got it now, all good.
For starters people usually learn scale playing it
note by note, up and down, no mixing.
12345678-87654321.
Then you move it to another position and do something like
23456782-28765432 etc.
This helps you to learn how scale is built and where to press on the fretboard
in order to stay in same scale.

But the mixing you mentioned is a must, sooner or later.
Scale is just a group of 7 notes that we use for composing solos, songs and everything else,
so you do have to mix notes somehow at the end
if you want your solo or melody to sound interesting,
playing scale in solo note by note up and down is not that musical,
it's used for learning and memorizing shapes mostly. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Sep 14 2009, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Sep 14 2009, 03:39 PM) *
Ohh, I got it now, all good.
For starters people usually learn scale playing it
note by note, up and down, no mixing.
12345678-87654321.
Then you move it to another position and do something like
23456782-28765432 etc.
This helps you to learn how scale is built and where to press on the fretboard
in order to stay in same scale.

But the mixing you mentioned is a must, sooner or later.
Scale is just a group of 7 notes that we use for composing solos, songs and everything else,
so you do have to mix notes somehow at the end
if you want your solo or melody to sound interesting,
playing scale in solo note by note up and down is not that musical,
it's used for learning and memorizing shapes mostly. smile.gif



Hello Muris,

Okay to memorize it I will play first position down-up: 12345678-87654321.
Then move up to 2e 3e 4e 5e position

There are always 5 positions for minor & Major scale right? after the 5th the fist position starts over again is hat right?


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