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playaxeman
post Oct 1 2009, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 1 2009, 02:29 AM) *
That was really great reply Robert, good job! smile.gif

Now let me explain you few things.
First of all, 2 flats are included in Bb but the key is Gm,
they are relatives as you said but Gm is our root chord
and that's why we are in a key of Gm.

There were some issues with F chord,
you mentioned Am scale and F chord is included in Am scale as well
but we are still in a key of Gm and Am scale would clash big time!
So you can use Gm scale, Gm pentatonic and F major pentatonic
over F chord.

Fm7 chord and B7/13 are chords taken from 2nd key in this lesson,
key of Eb, it lasts not so long tho, we have only 3 chords in key of Eb,
Fm7 (2nd degree), Bb7/13 (5th degree) and Eb (root).
Over those chords you can play Eb major scale.

Did I miss something? smile.gif


Hello Muirs,


So thx for the explanation.

I used the circle of Fifth/Four (is that a correct way to find the key?) to find the key but I didn't look at the root chord.

I wasn't aware of the second key Eb, was thinking in Bb the whole time. How could I have been aware of that apart from reading the intro at the lesson?

I like to do some more exercieces to nail this. I like to analyse "Smoke on the water" from Deep Purple. I know this track a long time and like to dig it now.

Are there some golden rules (I mean that cover 90% off the stuff) like: "if the key is X-maj you can play X-maj scale and X-mode-scale?

Talk to you later.


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 1 2009, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE (playaxeman @ Oct 1 2009, 08:10 AM) *
I wasn't aware of the second key Eb, was thinking in Bb the whole time. How could I have been aware of that apart from reading the intro at the lesson?

I like to do some more exercieces to nail this. I like to analyse "Smoke on the water" from Deep Purple. I know this track a long time and like to dig it now.

Are there some golden rules (I mean that cover 90% off the stuff) like: "if the key is X-maj you can play X-maj scale and X-mode-scale?

Talk to you later.


Well we could have been aware of it by listening, when Fm7 chord appears it's pretty obvious
that something is going on, ofc we need more experience and training to figure out what is it,
that's why I gave you this task, with more examples you'll get better and better!!

Tho you can analyze Smoke On The Water and share your thoughts with me,
I'll be glad to help you with it.

And there are rules but not that strict, it's more like logical ways to approach
which scale to use.
It has lot to do with style and type of music as well which is notes choice,
you are aware that, per example, in Blues we mostly play pentatonic scales only
simply because they sound perfect for that style eventho the whole progression
is driven from either major scale, minor scale or even some mode!!

As I said, we need to analyze more examples and learn from them,
that;s the best way imo. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 1 2009, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 1 2009, 02:29 PM) *
Well we could have been aware of it by listening, when Fm7 chord appears it's pretty obvious
that something is going on, ofc we need more experience and training to figure out what is it,
that's why I gave you this task, with more examples you'll get better and better!!

Tho you can analyze Smoke On The Water and share your thoughts with me,
I'll be glad to help you with it.

And there are rules but not that strict, it's more like logical ways to approach
which scale to use.
It has lot to do with style and type of music as well which is notes choice,
you are aware that, per example, in Blues we mostly play pentatonic scales only
simply because they sound perfect for that style eventho the whole progression
is driven from either major scale, minor scale or even some mode!!

As I said, we need to analyze more examples and learn from them,
that;s the best way imo. smile.gif



Hello Muris,
Yes I agree that I need to analyze more examples and learn from them.

You said "when Fm7 chord appears it's pretty obvious that something is going on" that is interesting because it was not that obvious for me. I thought that this was the 5 th interval of the Bb scale instead of the 2th interval of the Eb scales.

Will send analyze of SOTW of DP later.

Cheers
Robert


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 1 2009, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE (playaxeman @ Oct 1 2009, 02:54 PM) *
Hello Muris,
Yes I agree that I need to analyze more examples and learn from them.

You said "when Fm7 chord appears it's pretty obvious that something is going on" that is interesting because it was not that obvious for me. I thought that this was the 5 th interval of the Bb scale instead of the 2th interval of the Eb scales.

Will send analyze of SOTW of DP later.

Cheers
Robert


Yes I said that but I also said that we need more experience to realize it! smile.gif

Looking forward to your SOTW analyze tho. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 1 2009, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 1 2009, 03:00 PM) *
Yes I said that but I also said that we need more experience to realize it! smile.gif

Looking forward to your SOTW analyze tho. smile.gif


Hi Muris,

Here it is biggrin.gif

Smoke on the water Deep Purple


Key: Gm
Chords used:
Intro: kinda chord riffing like: G Bb C and G Bb C#
Verse: Gm (arpeggio) on the 1th, 5 th and 8th interval (G, D, G')
F (arpeggio) on the 1th, 5 th and 8th interval ( F, C, F')

Chorus: C/ Ab/ Gm

Solo: Gm/ /Cm/ / repeated 5 times
F/ / Gm/ / / /

scales that can be played over the solo here are:


When Gm (G-Bb-D)is played:
1) G Minor,
intervals: 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
notes: G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

2) G Pentatonic Minor
intervals: 1,b3,4,5,b7
notes: G,Bb,C,D,F

3) When Cm (C-Eb-G) is played same as 1 (G Minor) and 2 (G Pentatonic Minor) but also

C Natural Minor,
intervals: 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
notes: C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb


C Pentatonic Minor
intervals: 1,b3,4,5,b7
notes: C,Eb,F,G,Bb

4 When F (F-A-C) is played same as 1 (G Minor) and 2 (G Pentatonic Minor)


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 1 2009, 11:34 PM
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That was pretty good!!

Actually Mr.Blackmore plays Gm an Gm pentatonic in that solo
most of the time and so your additional scale options are huge plus!

Btw, what would you use if you would play solo over chorus progression,
C, Ab and Gm? smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 2 2009, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 2 2009, 12:34 AM) *
That was pretty good!!

Actually Mr.Blackmore plays Gm an Gm pentatonic in that solo
most of the time and so your additional scale options are huge plus!

Btw, what would you use if you would play solo over chorus progression,
C, Ab and Gm? smile.gif



He Muris,

C/ Ab/ Gm

Both C & Gm fit in a Gm chord progression

Ab is a strange chord in the Gm progression. I think I see that as a passing chord.


Chord notes are......scales to use.............Scalenotes
C= C-E-G>............G Major/E minor.........G,A,B,C,D,E,F#
............................C Major/A minor.........A,B,C,D,E,F,G

Chord notes are......scales to use.........Scalenotes
Ab= Ab-C-Eb..........G Phrygian............G,Ab,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

Chord notes are.......scales to use..............Scalenotes
Gm= G-Bb-D ..........G Pentatonic Minor.....G,Bb,C,D,F
..............................G Minor.....................G,A,Bb,C,D,Eb,F

The singer is singing these notes over the chords:

C chord: notes: E,D,C which is in the G Major/E minor & C Major/A minor

Ab chord: Eb, C this refers to Gm, G Phrygian

Gm chord: G, Bb, F, G which is in the G Pentatonic Minor & G Minor

This post has been edited by playaxeman: Oct 2 2009, 01:56 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 3 2009, 04:57 PM
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Ohh, I'm very glad that you figured out G Phrygian over Ab chord, spot on!

However you had some issues with C chord but the solution is quite simple
and here's how it goes.
We are in key of Gm mostly and our root chord is Gm, obviously.
Now, you related C chord with G major and E minor scales but there's no need to do that.
Simply paste C chord over Gm scale (it's our root) and find out what is the difference,
the only difference is E note in C chord while we have Eb note in Gm scale.
Eb is 6th degree in Gm scale, tho minor 6th.
And what do we get when we use major 6th (E) instead of minor 6th (Eb)?
We get Dorian mode, G Dorian. smile.gif
And that;s the only difference between minor scale and Dorian,
minor scale has minor 6th while Dorian has major 6th, everything else is identical.
And once again a single chord pointed us to different scale. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 4 2009, 12:08 PM
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Hi Muris,

Maybe you can give me some advice about the Em solo lesson.

As you know I did the REC for this lesson and I the instructors said that I was ahead of the beat.

I think I understand what went wrong:

1) I recorded the lead when I was playing along with the main video lesson and I was exactly on time with that lesson. Otherwise I would have done a retake. So I was satisfied with the lead track. During that take my webcam was running also

2) After recording this lead part I mixed it with the backing track. There I have had an issue. Maybe I didn't synch the backing track with the lead track I have just recorderd for 100%. I don't have another reason why I in time playing along with the lesson ( I supposed that is also 58 bpm) and not in the video.

Does this make sense?

I will remix the lead and the backing.

Here I have remixed the recording I did for the REC Attached File  Em_solo_4_Muris_Varajic_remix_2.MP3 ( 1.47MB ) Number of downloads: 1



I changed the lead track so it starts now a little later. In the main mix (in the video) the lead started a little earlier which makes it off synch I suppose. What do you think of this one?

Cheers

This post has been edited by playaxeman: Oct 4 2009, 12:41 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 5 2009, 01:03 AM
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It was not about sync but more about connection with backing track and groove.
Sometimes we play like in a hurry when we're not 100% sure with the piece that we play.
With more time and more experience you'll get over it, no worries. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 5 2009, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 5 2009, 02:03 AM) *
It was not about sync but more about connection with backing track and groove.
Sometimes we play like in a hurry when we're not 100% sure with the piece that we play.
With more time and more experience you'll get over it, no worries. smile.gif



Hi there Muris



I did it again,


....without a rush biggrin.gif

What do you think, can you hear it did it more easy?



Let me know waht you think.

Talk to you later

Cheers
Robert

p.s. I am still working on the alternate picking (C maj and Cm scales) lesson. I almost are done with the Cm scale.


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 6 2009, 02:47 AM
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Ohh yeah this was much better groove wise,
you surely got the idea!! smile.gif

There were few spots when you were a bit late tho,
like Em pentatonic lick and that part over F chord
but that's only cause need to polish it more,
not because of your issue with the groove, you're safe there imo! smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 6 2009, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 6 2009, 03:47 AM) *
Ohh yeah this was much better groove wise,
you surely got the idea!! smile.gif

There were few spots when you were a bit late tho,
like Em pentatonic lick and that part over F chord
but that's only cause need to polish it more,
not because of your issue with the groove, you're safe there imo! smile.gif



Thx Muris,

Good to hear I have got the groove right.



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playaxeman
post Oct 6 2009, 07:38 PM
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Hi Muris

Here is my 1 take of the alternate picking lesson

It is just the c maj part. I start slow a 60 bpm

I wanted to to the 80 bpm version also but I had to stop because my hand muscle was hurting during recording of the 60 bpm and it was getting worse.

So the 80 bpm will come. Then I will to the 100 bpm

Same for the Cm part.

After that I will do Cmaj and Cm together at 100 bpm



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Muris Varajic
post Oct 7 2009, 01:12 AM
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Well there are some problems with this one, both timing and technique.
Timing was ok for first bar or two and then you just speeded things up
and you totally lost connection with backing track! smile.gif
I guess you're still struggling with fingering etc so eventualy
it'll all come in the right place with time,
but you MUST listen to backing all the time and stay close to it.
Technique wise, you played first few bars using downpicking only
while this lesson is all about alternate picking,
you have to keep your picking movements down, up, down, up, down, up etc,
no double upstrokes or downstrokes.

This was good and well appreciated take for "breaking the ice"
but I would ask you to stay at 60 bpm and fix timing and picking
before we move onto 80 bpm, ok? smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 7 2009, 07:46 AM
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Hi Muris,

I first will correct at 60 bpm no problem and will upload a new take when i am ready for it.


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 7 2009, 04:08 PM
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Great, let me know if you need any help in a mean while tho. smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 7 2009, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 7 2009, 05:08 PM) *
Great, let me know if you need any help in a mean while tho. smile.gif


Hi there Muris

I fooled around with the Cm scale with a backing track you for sure will recognize. wink.gif

It was just a jam; so full improvement to exercise this scale.

I did a few takes to see how am I doing. I did add some effects in the mix to see what it does

Give me your opinion on this takes

Meanwhile I will try to get my fingering and timing right for the C maj scale biggrin.gif

Attached File  Cmin_jam_4_w_chorus.MP3 ( 764.08K ) Number of downloads: 1


Attached File  Cmin_jam_5_flan.MP3 ( 764.08K ) Number of downloads: 1


Attached File  Cmin_jam_tr_6.MP3 ( 764.08K ) Number of downloads: 1


Attached File  Cmin_jam_track7.MP3 ( 764.08K ) Number of downloads: 1


cheers


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 7 2009, 09:19 PM
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Oh yeah I DO recognize it, what a nice surprise! smile.gif

Takes were very nice tho, lots of interesting ideas and melody lines
played decently clean technique wise, tones were cool as well,
nice job with adding those effects and keep exploring that area.
But what concerns me here a little is once again the timing.
Most of those relatively faster lick are not so tight timing wise,
you simply fire up notes without planed or controlled timing.
I do understand that you are still learning positions around fretboard etc,
I mean, luckily I don't have any recording of myself when I was learning positions,
would be hilarious to hear that! laugh.gif
So my comment has NO intention to discourage you in any way, no chance,
I just try to point out things that I find important to focus on
in your musical journey.
As I told you earlier, try to tab one of these takes in GP and see how timing works for you.
Even better, write it down as close as possible and then "learn" notes coming from GP,
no matter hat you write in GP (8ths, 8ths triplets etc) it would always be 100% tight.

Good job and keep jamming, that IS important! smile.gif


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playaxeman
post Oct 7 2009, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 7 2009, 10:19 PM) *
Oh yeah I DO recognize it, what a nice surprise! smile.gif

Takes were very nice tho, lots of interesting ideas and melody lines
played decently clean technique wise, tones were cool as well,
nice job with adding those effects and keep exploring that area.
But what concerns me here a little is once again the timing.
Most of those relatively faster lick are not so tight timing wise,
you simply fire up notes without planed or controlled timing.
I do understand that you are still learning positions around fretboard etc,
I mean, luckily I don't have any recording of myself when I was learning positions,
would be hilarious to hear that! laugh.gif
So my comment has NO intention to discourage you in any way, no chance,
I just try to point out things that I find important to focus on
in your musical journey.
As I told you earlier, try to tab one of these takes in GP and see how timing works for you.
Even better, write it down as close as possible and then "learn" notes coming from GP,
no matter hat you write in GP (8ths, 8ths triplets etc) it would always be 100% tight.

Good job and keep jamming, that IS important! smile.gif


Hi Muris

Thanks for your honest feedback. This is not discouraging to me at all. I need this to improve myself. That why I joined GMC and the MTP.

That CM lesson has a beautiful progression and because it was in Cm this was perfect to use it and be kind a surprise . biggrin.gif

I never had any training, coaching of what soever I am kind selftaught. So nobody has ever told me about my weakest point - which I am becoming aware off now here in the MTP - is timing. And the thing is too be honest - I don't hear it myself, because I am focusing on what notes can I play and what notes should I play next and will they sound okay, note after note. So I don't pay attention to timing. Strange thing that such an important thing is underrated.

I will try to tab some melody lines to get more grip, controle and understanding of timing. But I think that will be hard. But I will try. I think the alternate picking lesson will also contribute to get a tighter timing. I think also I should practice more with a metronome. Also something that is "forgotten"

I will be better...eventually..... the journey goes on biggrin.gif

Cheers


--------------------
Gear:

Guitars
Music Man Luke BFR , Music Man JP LTD 2008, Paul Reed Smith Santana III, Gibson Les Paul, Ovation Adamas, Ovation Ultra

Amps
Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 50 combo

Effects
Korg Pandora PX5D, Line 6 Pod XT Live

Recording
Guitar Rig 5, Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000, Magix MusicMaker2008

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