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> Caelumamittendum's Mtp Thread, All assignments and uploads here
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 4 2009, 06:26 PM
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Hi Ben!

This is place where I will give you assignments and upload videos. You will do the same starting tonight. Bookmark it, subscribe to it as it will be easier to follow when I post new things in!


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 5 2009, 01:40 PM
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Ben I will post your assignment when I receive your guitar CV!
From what we talked before on MSN, you are looking to improve your arranging and songwriting. Assignments will be directed towards that no worries. Shoot me a message when you get internet. I will also send you PM right now to keep you updated with MTP!



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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 8 2009, 10:29 AM
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Hey Pedja,

I just got internet again here, but I haven't had time to write the Guitar CV. I will do so tonight after I've had my classes at university today. Expect it up around 6 or 7.


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 8 2009, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Sep 8 2009, 11:29 AM) *
Hey Pedja,

I just got internet again here, but I haven't had time to write the Guitar CV. I will do so tonight after I've had my classes at university today. Expect it up around 6 or 7.


Got it all Ben, excellent stuff !
We will start tomorrow with your first assignment if you don't mind wink.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 8 2009, 10:10 PM
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Sure thing, Pedja. Looking forward to it. I hope you can in some way incorporate bringing back my motivation and inspiration. At times I've felt that I've actually needed a more "personal" teacher than just GMC all in all. Someone that will want me to do certain exercises and get "dissapointed" if I don't do so. I can't really find better words now, but you might know what I mean smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 8 2009, 10:11 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Sep 8 2009, 11:10 PM) *
Sure thing, Pedja. Looking forward to it. I hope you can in some way incorporate bringing back my motivation and inspiration. At times I've felt that I've actually needed a more "personal" teacher than just GMC all in all. Someone that will want me to do certain exercises and get "dissapointed" if I don't do so. I can't really find better words now, but you might know what I mean smile.gif


Believe it or not, I know exactly what you mean smile.gif
I will push you and make you feel bad for not practicing so you will practice and eventually realize that awesome things happen when you spend some time with your guitar, but more on that tomorrow... wink.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 8 2009, 10:20 PM
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Looking forward to seeing what you come up with, Pedja. From what I've seen at the other users' MTP threads it's looking very good! smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 8 2009, 10:27 PM
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Thanks a lot Ben, really appreciate it. You know I will put my best effort so it should be great and lots of fun!
We have been waiting for this for a while, remember? Now we can finally use this new MTP system and do wonders. I will start tomorrow because I am tired from trip and can't post assignment right now. I could but I could leave things out and thats just not right! So its best to wait until tomorrow, will shot you PM and one on MSN as soon as I post it!


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 8 2009, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Sep 8 2009, 11:27 PM) *
Thanks a lot Ben, really appreciate it. You know I will put my best effort so it should be great and lots of fun!
We have been waiting for this for a while, remember? Now we can finally use this new MTP system and do wonders. I will start tomorrow because I am tired from trip and can't post assignment right now. I could but I could leave things out and thats just not right! So its best to wait until tomorrow, will shot you PM and one on MSN as soon as I post it!


Yeah, no problem at all. I don't have time to look at anything untill tomorrow at least. I have a few or more chapters in books to read etc. in the next days due to university. laugh.gif Interesting books none the less, so it's not really that bad smile.gif

Can you at least share some details of what you have in mind with the MTP here? smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 8 2009, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Sep 8 2009, 11:35 PM) *
Yeah, no problem at all. I don't have time to look at anything untill tomorrow at least. I have a few or more chapters in books to read etc. in the next days due to university. laugh.gif Interesting books none the less, so it's not really that bad smile.gif

Can you at least share some details of what you have in mind with the MTP here? smile.gif


Sure thing Ben...

Composing, arranging, repertoire, improvising, theory and harmony, technique and repertoire for starters!


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 8 2009, 10:48 PM
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That sounds very nice!

Regarding theory and harmony (and arranging) is it possible to have a look at chord progressions and how one would go about making something less predictable than just your regular 7th, 9th, 11th etc. chords? I would also like to know a bit more about key changes and how to approach these in the best manner without making it sound totally out of order...


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 8 2009, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Sep 8 2009, 11:48 PM) *
That sounds very nice!

Regarding theory and harmony (and arranging) is it possible to have a look at chord progressions and how one would go about making something less predictable than just your regular 7th, 9th, 11th etc. chords? I would also like to know a bit more about key changes and how to approach these in the best manner without making it sound totally out of order...


This is exactly what we are going to do as you need all these tips and tricks in order to improve your songwriting and arranging wink.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 9 2009, 12:40 PM
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Lets get started Ben!

I decided to put emphasis on theory and harmony in your 1st assignment. The reason why I am doing this is because this will help you a lot with composing and arranging, especially reharmonizing which you mentioned as something you aim to learn.

Your 1st assignment is Theory reading. You will have a test on these 2 posts of mine.

Theory reading :

- I would like you to read my posts from links provided below.
- Once you read it all, memorize 3 and 4 part harmony in C major scale.
- Learn to apply scale degrees rather then numbers ( I in C major is C, IV in C is F etc).
- Write out in this thread all notes for 3 and 4 part harmony in C major scale.


Here are the links :

Cadences

Major scale harmony and chord functions

Let me know if you have any questions Ben. Very soon after you finish this one, we will start with some standard reharmonization techniques!

Pedja


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 9 2009, 05:51 PM
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I'm just gonna do these theory exercises whenever I have the time during the evening, Pedja. So here's a little of it...

C major harmonization

3 part harmonization

I = C = C E G = 1 3 5
ii = Dm = D F A = 1 b3 5
iii = Em = E G B = 1 b3 5
IV = F = F A C = 1 3 5
V = G = G B D = 1 3 5
vi = Am = A C E = 1 b3 5
vii = Bminb5 (Bdim) = B D F = 1 b3 b5

I usually write Bminb5, but it looks kinda weird here. I cannot lower the b in b5, I think.

EDIT: looks like I can.

4 part harmonization

I7 = Cmaj7 = C E G B = 1 3 5 7
ii7 = Dm7 = D F A C = 1 b3 5 b7
iii7 = Em7 = E G B D = 1 b3 5 b7
IV7 = Fmaj7 = F A C E = 1 3 5 7
V7 = G7 = G B D F = 1 3 5 7
vi7 = Amin7 = A C E G = 1 b3 5 b7
vii7 = Bmin7b5 = B D F A = 1 b3 b5 bb7

If you're asking for half-diminished on the last chord, it would only be b7 (thus Bb). The mentioned bb7 would also just be a 6th (and in this case A).

I don't usually write whether the chords are major, minor or diminished when writing the degrees. (etc. Imaj7 vs. I7), but I think I've seen both used, and I don't really know what would be considered correct.

I hope that is some of what you wanted, otherwise feel free to correct me. There might be some errors (either "real" errors or typing errors), as it was just from the top of my head.

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Sep 9 2009, 05:52 PM


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 9 2009, 06:33 PM
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All great Ben except on the last chord !
Bmin7b5 is the correct way of writing it. We also call it half diminished because it has minor instead of diminshed 7th smile.gif Everything else (triad) is original to diminished 7th chord.
If you take Bmin7 chord, you will see its B D F# A. Since C major scale has no F# but rather F, we practically lowered the perfect 5th down a half step, which makes it Diminished 5th. This is why we add to Bmin7 b5 in the and (as the 5th of the chord is flatted).
There is no double flatted 7th or any reason to write b7. If we just write Min7, it goes without saying that its a minor triad with minor 7th. If we wanted to use Harmonic and Melodic minor I chord which is minor triad with major 7th, we would write it as Min/Maj7 with root in front of it (C min/maj7 ).
Hope that makes sense?

Have you read about diatonic reharmonization?

What can you tell me about that? How would you go about it to reharmonize something diatonically ?


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 9 2009, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Sep 9 2009, 07:33 PM) *
All great Ben except on the last chord !
Bmin7b5 is the correct way of writing it. We also call it half diminished because it has minor instead of diminshed 7th smile.gif Everything else (triad) is original to diminished 7th chord.
If you take Bmin7 chord, you will see its B D F# A. Since C major scale has no F# but rather F, we practically lowered the perfect 5th down a half step, which makes it Diminished 5th. This is why we add to Bmin7 b5 in the and (as the 5th of the chord is flatted).
There is no double flatted 7th or any reason to write b7. If we just write Min7, it goes without saying that its a minor triad with minor 7th. If we wanted to use Harmonic and Melodic minor I chord which is minor triad with major 7th, we would write it as Min/Maj7 with root in front of it (C min/maj7 ).
Hope that makes sense?

Have you read about diatonic reharmonization?

What can you tell me about that? How would you go about it to reharmonize something diatonically ?


Yeah, I know about the half diminished, but suddenly got a bit confused whether you were asking for half diminished or diminished.
Makes perfect sense. I was just trying to get as much information down as possible laugh.gif

I'm not too sure about reharmonization, let alone diatonic reharmonization, and I'm not sure I've read about it before. Was it in one of the two links you gave me? I must admit that I skipped a bit through them.

Now I'm just taking a wild geuss though:

If we have a I IV V I progression C, would diatonic reharmonization involve changing the tonic, subdominant and dominant to something besides C, F and G? When thinking diatonically, I can't really help but thinking in moving up in diatonic steps, but I'm not sure if we're just talking 1 step or more steps. Say I would become iii, IV would become vi and V would become vii.

I'll google it now before lecturing myself something wrong...


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 9 2009, 06:57 PM
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These are all good guesses !
You missed II as being sub dominant functioning chord ans VI being tonic function chord smile.gif
So here is the lay out

Tonic functioning chords : I, III and VI
Sub dominant functioning chords : II and IV
Dominant functioning chords : V and VII

That sums up diatonic reharmonization in major scale. It would be nice to see you do one piece with regular harmony and reharmonize it diatonically. Consider that your assignment !


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 9 2009, 07:07 PM
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I'm still a bit confused about it though. Are these considered good choices for reharmonization because of their shared notes with the I chord?

Example: C

I = C = C E G
iii = Em = E G B
vi = Am = A C E

E.g. there's both C E in I and vi?



Another question - when we're talking re-harmonization in a piece, are we RE-harmonizing the entire piece into something "different" or are we merely placing the iii or vi chords as harmony upon the I-chord? (I geuss this would in the I + iii case would give us a I7 chord...)

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Sep 9 2009, 07:08 PM


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 9 2009, 07:26 PM
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Good questions Ben!

Yes these are good choices because they contain some sort of combination of 1 3 or 3 5 of the I chord.
When we talk about reharmonizing, we can do both things: reharmonize whole piece, or just change some original harmony and change it with diatonic reharmonization (for time being).

Let me think of a good piece for you, in the meanwhile you should do the same. Think very famous pop songs, like Titanic song (My heart will go on) or Mariah Carey , Britney Spears stuff. This is all strong melodies with diatonic harmonies that could be reharmonized, and this is what we need to do right now!


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lcsdds
post Sep 9 2009, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Sep 9 2009, 07:26 PM) *
Good questions Ben!

Yes these are good choices because they contain some sort of combination of 1 3 or 3 5 of the I chord.
When we talk about reharmonizing, we can do both things: reharmonize whole piece, or just change some original harmony and change it with diatonic reharmonization (for time being).

Let me think of a good piece for you, in the meanwhile you should do the same. Think very famous pop songs, like Titanic song (My heart will go on) or Mariah Carey , Britney Spears stuff. This is all strong melodies with diatonic harmonies that could be reharmonized, and this is what we need to do right now!

Sorry to hijack your thread guys but I had a question for Pedja......When you say reharmonize do you mean use chord substitution??

So if I had I-IV-V progression I could reharmonize it with say a iii-ii-VII instead???

Thanks and sorry again for hijacking your thread.... smile.gif
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