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> Caelumamittendum's Mtp Thread, All assignments and uploads here
Pedja Simovic
post Sep 10 2009, 11:25 PM
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I am going to bed now, work on it and submit it fully by Sunday !


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 10 2009, 11:47 PM
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Sleep well, Pedja.

I've tried something. I'm not sure it is exactly how you wanted it, but I definately already got something out of it.

The change from the first part to the second part (C#m B A B vs. E G#m F#m G#m) is quite evident. But I geuss this is also a matter of changing modes.

I've kept the melody line playing the same, but changed the chords to the reharmonized ones. In the last part both sets of chords are played underneath the melody line.

I chose to reharmonize C#m with E, because of the start note of E and resting note of G#. Those two prominent notes in the melody line are in both chords. Had I chosen A, there would have been a clash between the G# in the melody line and the A chord.

In the next bar I chose to reharmonize B with G#m because of the resting note B which is in both chords. This note is not in the vii chord and therefore I felt G#m was the better choice.

In the next bar I have reharmonized A with C#m because of the note C#. I could have also chosen F#m. The note C# is in both F#m and C#m, but to me C#m felt more natural as C# is the root of the chord.

In the same bar we move on to a resting note B. I have chosen G#m here, as the note B is not in Ebminb5 (though there are two b's in the name laugh.gif).

It's really the same in the 3-4 next bars, except the melody changes, but the landing notes are the same. I don't see any reason to explain that.

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Sep 11 2009, 12:20 AM
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Attached File  Re_harmonized_MHWGO.gp5 ( 9.71K ) Number of downloads: 28
 


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 11 2009, 09:20 AM
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Ben this is excellent, just what I wanted you to do! I am very glad to hear you already learned some things from this assignment. I will pick a next tune for you and lets see what you can do with that one wink.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 11 2009, 11:45 AM
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Hahaha. Cool. I'll wait and see.

I'll be very busy next week by the way. I'm going to be at work Monday from 14:15 to 23:15, university Tuesday from 13:00 to 17:00, university Wednesday from 13:00 17:00, Thursday university 15:00 to 17:00 and work from 17:00 to 23:15 and Friday I'll be away between 14:00 to 16:00 and 16:00 to 21:15.


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 11 2009, 11:58 AM
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Ok Ben, I will give you assignment for this weekend then so we can make up lost time in next week wink.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 11 2009, 12:28 PM
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Yeah, do that. I'll be out for the Spurs game though, as well as having to look at the collab. smile.gif But go for it, Pedja. I'll find the time! smile.gif

By the way... what would the term for "re-mode-ifying" be? tongue.gif Like... If you have a certain melody and chord progression and you within a song change that from let's just say aeolian to phrygian?


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 11 2009, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Sep 11 2009, 01:28 PM) *
Yeah, do that. I'll be out for the Spurs game though, as well as having to look at the collab. smile.gif But go for it, Pedja. I'll find the time! smile.gif

By the way... what would the term for "re-mode-ifying" be? tongue.gif Like... If you have a certain melody and chord progression and you within a song change that from let's just say aeolian to phrygian?


Enjoy the game, Arsenal is playing Man City, that will be a great game as well smile.gif

First time I heard of that term Ben but explanation you give sounds right smile.gif Adjusting melody and its notes by mode you are in. smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 11 2009, 06:43 PM
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It was actually just something I came to think of. I don't know if it makes sense. I have never used it before though. I'm not sure how one would go about pulling it off smoothly.


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 11 2009, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Sep 11 2009, 07:43 PM) *
It was actually just something I came to think of. I don't know if it makes sense. I have never used it before though. I'm not sure how one would go about pulling it off smoothly.


A lot of jazz improvisers use this trick. Listen to Coltrane, he loves to start on one pitch and do voice leading from it, just altering the rest of the notes to fit the mode that supports chord.


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 11 2009, 07:21 PM
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Cool. I'll definately listen to him.

I love those small tricks. I like melodies that are simple and minimalistic, which only progress in slight changes such as key or modes smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 11 2009, 07:42 PM
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Yeah he is awesome! He didn't play minimalistic though smile.gif Well if you think about melodic ideas, they were simple but all grouped together at fast tempos so it sounded like really long flowing lines on sax. Very cool stuff!


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 11 2009, 08:14 PM
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Another thing that has always trouble me is how to incorporate lots of chords as is seen in Giant Steps as an example. We have both E7, F#7, Fmaj7 and lots of other chords which are very "close" to eachother and note related in terms of being in the same key. I've always had trouble writing like that without having it sound weird.

What I meant with minimalistic though was that one can create simple melody lines and keep them interesting through changing mode, key etc. and still keeping the "same" melody.


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 11 2009, 08:23 PM
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Well its all about common notes between chords or voice leading. In Jazz music you will find great examples of voice leading, sequences, repetition, quotations etc. So once you understand how they do it in Harmony, all you have to do is sit down and practice these things melodically. This is what Coltrane did, he read tons of books on reharmonizing and chord progressions, even classical harmonies, and took 3 tonic system, practiced it like mad, started improvising over simple II V I superimposing with 3 tonic system, and then eventually that became his thing! Today everybody knows who John Coltrane is and jazz musicians all around world are thankful to revolution he brought to jazz music smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 11 2009, 08:32 PM
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Yeah, of course. So basically you are saying that, of course, it will sound less "awkward" (but still jazz-y) to have two chords from seperate keys in the same chord progression if they have a leading note between them? Quite obvious actually.

Funny thing actually... when I first started out writing my own songs, I would always make sure that chord following the previous chord in the chord progression shared at least 1 note with the previous chord. Always staying in a certain key though. So... from Em I had the choice of going to G, Bm etc. maybe even Dsus2 or other such chords. Hehehe.



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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 11 2009, 08:35 PM
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Yes Ben, you definitely got the talent for it. I look forward to hear your work after 3 months of MTP smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 11 2009, 08:41 PM
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I have never actually analyzed my own songs or looked at how I approached it when writing them. But I've definately already caught on to some ideas (even though I may have used them before, but haven't been aware of it) for when composing. I'll pay more attention to re-harmonization in the future for sure.

Another thing I've recently found myself inspired by is just looking at some old Beethoven and Mozart books I have. They have a lot of transcribed concertos etc., and some of the runs and harmonies are quite interesting. I've sent you Prologue before, and the arpeggios that start at bar 74 are kinda inspired by some of those books.


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 12 2009, 12:54 PM
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When is my next assignment going to be up? smile.gif



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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 12 2009, 03:06 PM
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Some time later tonight Ben!


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Caelumamittendum
post Sep 12 2009, 03:36 PM
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Cool smile.gif

I'm just done mixing my collab together. I'm not sure whether to record a take myself as well.



I decided not to record anything for my own collab for now, but maybe make an SI lesson out of it some day.

What would you suggest that I focus on in my comments?

Melodic approach/build up
Technique
Timing

What more?



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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 12 2009, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Sep 12 2009, 04:36 PM) *
Cool smile.gif

I'm just done mixing my collab together. I'm not sure whether to record a take myself as well.



I decided not to record anything for my own collab for now, but maybe make an SI lesson out of it some day.

What would you suggest that I focus on in my comments?

Melodic approach/build up
Technique
Timing

What more?


Hey Ben,

You could use sound, phrasing/rhythm placement, melodic approach, development, intro and ending for example.

I would like you to take same song (from Titanic) and try to use secondary dominant chords wherever possible! This would mean dominant chords approaching target chord. So if you have F# minor as target chord, try to use C#7. Keep in mind that melody should sound diatonic to secondary dominant chord.
Experiment, do it in guitar pro and post your work in this thread!

P.S. Manchester by 2 goal margin ha? smile.gif


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