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> Whats The Best File Type To Render Into?
Fingerspasm
post Sep 21 2009, 03:03 PM
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Recorded some songs on my MacBook Pro using logic 8. I am wanting to try some of the mastering software that I have on my PC. Was thinking that I could render each track and then put them into reaper on my PC. What would be the best file type to render the tracks into? I do not want to lose any of the quality. Would .wav be good enough?

The tracks are Drums, Guitar, Bass, Keyboard and Vocals. The drums are 5 different tracks.

This post has been edited by Fingerspasm: Sep 21 2009, 03:04 PM


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twist
post Sep 21 2009, 03:30 PM
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If i remember it correct wav would be a good choice as it stores uncompressed audio data. More precise it should be wav as the container format and uncompressed PCM data inside.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 21 2009, 03:31 PM
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Wav is imo your best option. Your worst is to render to any lossy/compression file (ie mp3). Also try not to dither and correct at this stage. You may be best off putting a 44.1/24 wav or 44.1/32 fp to the mastering software.

I'd also suggest that for experimenting with mastering you consider the following:

One file that is the summed stereo main out (i.e. the main stereo mix that you'd normally render render).

One file that includes all the grouped stems but not summed to the main. i,e the 5 tracks of drums could be grouped with the guitar etc as separate group stems.

One file that is the tracked audio with no effects/compression on the master buss (and as little as possible else where).

The separate group stems give you the option of going back and correcting the mix if it needs it rather than dealing with mixing issues at mastering. So if you need to add a reverb only to the drums you could do this without affecting the vocals etc.

The last option - well any effect/compression is very hard to remove once its on, so the least the better.

Don't normalise before you master instead use mastering to limit and expand and provide a good take that has dynamics. Make sure you have sufficient headroom for processing in the master without clipping. IMO you should be providing a recording with average levels at about -12 and peak at no more than -6. Personal opinion - don't slam the levels in the master.


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Fingerspasm
post Sep 21 2009, 04:22 PM
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Thanks for the input. My thought was to render each individual track and then build the song again in the new DAW. I might do this with the effects I already have and then I might do it again with just the raw tracks and mix and master on my PC. The reason I am in this situation is because I bought my new Macbook pro and got the Ensemble by Apogee as my audio interface and man does it make a difference! But I have not gotten the extra cash yet to buy the mastering software for my mac. Logic 8 has some good stuff but I think I can do better. The money I was going to use to get the extra software I ended up using on a new vocal mic (Audio Technica AT2050) was worth every penny! Anyway my son tells me that he needs the Mastering Done in about 3 weeks because he has a chance to have a CD release party at a really good Venue with some other good bands. So the pressure is on! smile.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 21 2009, 04:51 PM
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If you want to stay in Logic take a look at this - may help.

What mastering software do you intend to use? Whilst some is very good some may not actually be any better than using those already in Logic (or Reaper). A lot of mastering is about limiting, expansion, compression and eq. and often its a case of knowing how to do these well with some 'tricks' (like mid-side eq/parallel compression/gain stagging etc) to get a good master rather than throwing lots of effects at it.

If you do end up using Reaper don't forget that you have options at the final rendering stage to set the quality.


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Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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Fingerspasm
post Sep 21 2009, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 21 2009, 10:51 AM) *
If you want to stay in Logic take a look at this - may help.

What mastering software do you intend to use? Whilst some is very good some may not actually be any better than using those already in Logic (or Reaper). A lot of mastering is about limiting, expansion, compression and eq. and often its a case of knowing how to do these well with some 'tricks' (like mid-side eq/parallel compression/gain stagging etc) to get a good master rather than throwing lots of effects at it.

If you do end up using Reaper don't forget that you have options at the final rendering stage to set the quality.


Sounds good. I will give some of this a try. I am still learning. I have some pretty good tracks so far. Its just trying to get the final polished sound. I was just talking to a friend and he has access to Waves Mercury Software on a PC. This looks like pretty good software since it retails for $6,225.00 in my sweetwater catalog. I will be tempted to see what that software can do. I just hate having to take the time to render all the tracks to .wav and then transfering and rebuilding. But you never know until you try.
I have to say that since my knowledge is limited at this time I have been using some of the mastering presets after I get what I feel is a good mix. One of the ones I seem to always go to is called Final Rock Mix. It has compression, reverb etc. I need to graduate into doing real mastering. I have been learning slowly but surely but its hard when you are torn between recording and mixing or practicing guitar more in my continuing effort to be the next Paul Gilbert smile.gif Oh ya and I should not forget to mention also trying to run a business that supplies me the money to do all of this!


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 21 2009, 05:41 PM
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Waves is good but expensive both to buy and to keep updated and tbh you often find that in their large packs like Mercury/Platinum etc that you don't actually need or use quite a few of the plug ins.

Personally for mastering itb I think there are are good plugins from the likes of Flux, Sonnox (Sony Oxford) and Proaudio at the more expensive end and Voxengo, Stillwell, PSP at the less expensive end. Flux etc are as good as or better imo then the equivalents from Waves - and you only have to buy the ones you actually need/want.

Also for getting started the all in one Isotope v4 is good.

If you want to get in to mastering in a big way I'd invest in - if you haven't already done so - the best room acoustic treatment and monitoring that you can get. Basically if you can't hear the mix accurately then you will make mistakes mastering. Once that is done then I'd look at the AD/DA conversion and in line with that good mastering software that lets you do red book cd authoring. Then invest in expensive hardware and software effects/processing like waves' Mercury.

BTW and fwiw we are in the process of converting a room in to a mastering studio so I'm kind of going through the same decisions as you are. A lot of our stuff here is fine for tracking/recording but not mastering grade and I have to convince the wife that we need to invest more cash smile.gif (and hope she doesn't add up how much is being spent wink.gif ). She made a large choking noise the other day when we were talking about our AD Conversion.


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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Fingerspasm
post Sep 21 2009, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 21 2009, 11:41 AM) *
Waves is good but expensive both to buy and to keep updated and tbh you often find that in their large packs like Mercury/Platinum etc that you don't actually need or use quite a few of the plug ins.

Personally for mastering itb I think there are are good plugins from the likes of Flux, Sonnox (Sony Oxford) and Proaudio at the more expensive end and Voxengo, Stillwell, PSP at the less expensive end. Flux etc are as good as or better imo then the equivalents from Waves - and you only have to buy the ones you actually need/want.

Also for getting started the all in one Isotope v4 is good.

If you want to get in to mastering in a big way I'd invest in - if you haven't already done so - the best room acoustic treatment and monitoring that you can get. Basically if you can't hear the mix accurately then you will make mistakes mastering. Once that is done then I'd look at the AD/DA conversion and in line with that good mastering software that lets you do red book cd authoring. Then invest in expensive hardware and software effects/processing like waves' Mercury.

BTW and fwiw we are in the process of converting a room in to a mastering studio so I'm kind of going through the same decisions as you are. A lot of our stuff here is fine for tracking/recording but not mastering grade and I have to convince the wife that we need to invest more cash smile.gif (and hope she doesn't add up how much is being spent wink.gif ). She made a large choking noise the other day when we were talking about our AD Conversion.


I figured there might be many things in Mercury that I would not need. Thanks for the info on the other brands to check out.
Converting a new room to a studio sounds pretty exciting. Would love to see some before and after pics.

I know what you mean about the cost of some of this stuff. I just tell my wife that since we spend so much money on my daughters sports camps and clinics that we can do this for our son since he is not very active into sports and is into music. So I have doubled my office above my garage as my studio right now. It has wood laminate flooring so I put down a big area rug and we set drums up on that and I face the Kick drum right into the small loveseat to baffle the bass. The walls only go up about 4 feet before the ceiling starts to slope in on you. It follows the roof line. I think this really helps the acoustics because its not so square. I am using M-Audio BX5a Monitors and they seem to be pretty nice so far. I also have a set of Sennheiser headphones. That along with the Macbook pro and Apogee Ensemble and some mics and JDI Boxes, Cables adapters etc, etc, and I am already into this thing by about 5 to 7 grand. Bad thing is when I get a new Sweetwater catalog I sit there and drool over all the things I still want....... Anyway thanks for the feedback. I will probably be posting some more in the following days. Starting tonight I have to get serious and start spending a couple of hours a day finishing up vocals and then working on the mix. smile.gif


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kahall
post Sep 22 2009, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 21 2009, 09:31 AM) *
Wav is imo your best option. Your worst is to render to any lossy/compression file (ie mp3).


I need to study up on this. The above is the only thing I understood which I will do from now on. I have always rendered to mp3 for my REC entries.


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