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> How To Use The Modes, Shapes And Scales Etc. Properly While Impro.
mhskeide
post Sep 23 2009, 07:16 PM
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After reading countless posts about how to learn scales, modes etc the best way, I`m down to asking the same question myself, but with a twist.

I know all the modes and which notes that are unique for that mode, f.i. the F in the G mixolydian instead of F#, and with some time thinking I know a lot of tap arpeggios as well.

My problem is, I`m not able to combine everything as it`s supposed to. While playing C ionian, I often tend to play more the A aeolian mode (which is very similar to the scale I know the best, which ofc is minor pentatonic), where my licks usually ends at an A which changes the sound. I`m also struggling in combing modes in my phrasing, usually I pull of one lick in one mode, before moving to another mode for another lick (while being unsure about which note to land on).

I like to believe that my phrasing is limited due to this lacks, and that it will improve some if I manage to fix this. But HOW? ohmy.gif

Is the option to read scales and practise them in and out and up and down? do I have to be more attentive while practising mode-shapes? Any good idea? tongue.gif

ps: Since this is phsyical problem, but a more of a mental one (more what to do, what to play instead of HOW to play), the question may be confusing... so please ask if I explained myself poorly, which I probably did laugh.gif

I`ll try in this last line to explain the problem easier: I think I got a pretty decent sweeping and picking tecnhique, at least good enough at the time being. The case is, I`m not able to pull of some good sounding sweeps and shreddy runs in my solos...because I just dont know what to play..


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djohnneay
post Sep 23 2009, 07:57 PM
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I hear you ! I suffer from this as well. The anwser may lie in learning more guitar licks, learning songs in which this kinda thing happens and figure out why it works there. Some ear training maybe also help somewhat.

The worst thing about this 'problem' is that there is no guideline, and music is something personal. There is never a right or wrong, just your own personal opinion what you think sounds good. Could you perhaps record something you think doesn't sound good, or does so people can give better advice ?


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Tomas Santa Clar...
post Sep 23 2009, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Sep 23 2009, 07:16 PM) *
After reading countless posts about how to learn scales, modes etc the best way, I`m down to asking the same question myself, but with a twist.

I know all the modes and which notes that are unique for that mode, f.i. the F in the G mixolydian instead of F#, and with some time thinking I know a lot of tap arpeggios as well.

My problem is, I`m not able to combine everything as it`s supposed to. While playing C ionian, I often tend to play more the A aeolian mode (which is very similar to the scale I know the best, which ofc is minor pentatonic), where my licks usually ends at an A which changes the sound. I`m also struggling in combing modes in my phrasing, usually I pull of one lick in one mode, before moving to another mode for another lick (while being unsure about which note to land on).

I like to believe that my phrasing is limited due to this lacks, and that it will improve some if I manage to fix this. But HOW? ohmy.gif

Is the option to read scales and practise them in and out and up and down? do I have to be more attentive while practising mode-shapes? Any good idea? tongue.gif

ps: Since this is phsyical problem, but a more of a mental one (more what to do, what to play instead of HOW to play), the question may be confusing... so please ask if I explained myself poorly, which I probably did laugh.gif

I`ll try in this last line to explain the problem easier: I think I got a pretty decent sweeping and picking tecnhique, at least good enough at the time being. The case is, I`m not able to pull of some good sounding sweeps and shreddy runs in my solos...because I just dont know what to play..



well our friend Muris says that we should know from top to bottom our major and minor scales

and then experiment on the modes

like muris said if you want to play ...say... G Mixolidyan . your root is G , you have a G chord in the backing and you play Gmajor with a flat seventh

the way im figuring this out is to first play the gMaj scale first and then trasform Gmajor to Mixolidyan

thats where you get the full flavor of the mode (if i am not mistaken)

the thing with the modes is that you need to know what story your gonna tell, and then change from major to another mode or minor to another mode , it helps you give twists and turns to your song


i hope this helps biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by Tomas Santa Clara: Sep 23 2009, 08:52 PM
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Muris Varajic
post Sep 24 2009, 03:26 AM
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I believe you have problems with so called "strong notes".
Scale is just a mix of 7 notes and then we use them to create everything,
both chord progressions and melodies or improvised solos.
Of course you must learn your scales up and down to neck
just to figure out where all notes are located on fretboard in all positions.
But after that comes bit harder work, to follow progression all the time
and stick with the chords, that way your playing will sound more smooth and inteligent.

So you mentioned C Ionian and finishing on note A too often like it was A Aeolian.
Problem is quite simple imho, you have been playing A Aeolian too long (or Aeolian modes in general)
while puting C Ionian or Ionian modes in general aside.
You're not the only one tho, many players are much more familiar
with minor and minor pentatonic scales, Metal, Blues etc,
those styles are mostly minor or minor pentatonic orientated, not always ofc.

Next thing that is important to play smooth is visalizing triads in every position.
C Ionian has C chord as root, notes are C,E and G.
You have to visualize those notes and stick close to them when needed.
As you go more further you'll visualize other triads like F triad
and you'll stick more with it when F chord is in progression.
You'll still be playing C Ionian all the time but you'll follow chords all the time
and your playing will sound smoother and more inteligent.

It takes lot of time, don't be scared or frustrated,
just work hard and think of notes while you play them,
it'll all become clear sooner or later smile.gif


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Jerry Arcidiacon...
post Sep 24 2009, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Sep 24 2009, 04:26 AM) *
It takes lot of time, don't be scared or frustrated,
just work hard and think of notes while you play them,
it'll all become clear sooner or later smile.gif


This is the key. Think about notes over the current chord.
Patterns and scale diagrams are useful indeed but you need to know what you're playing.
You can always follow your ear if you have some good melody in your head. If not, as Muris said, triads will help you a lot to avoid to play "wrong" notes.
To keep things simple, thinking about C Ionian used over Cmaj chord, usually the F note is consider an avoid note, used as a passing tone, most of the time. Experiment a little!


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 24 2009, 12:54 PM
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If you already practiced all the modes and know exactly where the notes are on the fretboard, it would be good now to cover all the arpeggios on the fretboard. This will engrave the strong notes in your memory, so later on you know exactly what notes are good to use over each chord so you don't land on A all the time. Just go through arpeggios systematically, and after you will know the positions you can use on top of the chords.


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Pedja Simovic
post Sep 24 2009, 03:41 PM
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You have to think more in terms of chord quality and chord progressions in general. Once you get grasp of that you can start fine tuning your melodic approach and soloing. In other words, soloing with arpeggios and tensions, using pentatonics in soloing, using modes, approach patterns etc. So you get whole lot of approaches but the key is relationship between harmony (chords) and melody (solo).
Have fun smile.gif


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