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> Dilemma Regarding Amp Size, Continuation of the "HT-5 for band" - post
mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 07:16 PM
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Hi guys

I felt that this topic deserved an own post, since there may be more people than me with the same problem.

I`ll try to keep it short until further details are asked for.

My current gear: Crate VTX 200s (200W 2*12 solid state amp)

Want: A tubeamp capable of playing both sweet cleans and evil, crushing distorition.

Quick prelude to dilemma: My current amp is very large, and only used home since I`m only playing bass in bands, I don`t need an amp of this size. Though, me and a mate are discussing starting a new band where I play guitar, I just dont know when it happenes or IF it happenes...

the dilemma: Buying an high-gain tubeamp usually means high-end as well. I saw a hope in the Blackstar HT-5 being able to be heard in a band, but I see now that it will be a bit low. On the other hand, a hi-end tubeamp will most likely be pretty expensive, and if the band I mentioned wont be established, then I will be having a monster amp for only home use, which equals waste in size imo.

Some alternatives:
1) Take my chances and trade my Crate for a HT-5 - Advantage: Minimal expenses - Drawback: Too low for band
2)Keep my crate and buy the HT-5 in addition - Advantage: Two amps, OK for band and great for home use - DB: Having an unsued, large amp at home. A bit expensive (since I`m not getting money in)
3) Trade the Crate into a large amp (f.i a 50W tube combo or head with cab) - Advantage: I`ll bet you already know this one(variety of amps, tone, size etc.) - Drawback: Most likely to very expensive, and oversized for exclusively home use

For now, I`ve also been able to find a compromise: The Blackstar Series 1 45 W combo (can be switched down to 4,5W!)

Can I have some views and tips on this case if someone`s able to help smile.gif ?

Budget: I hope I`ll be able to sell my Crate for 3,5-4,5k NOK (400€/600$ - 500€/800$), and if that`s the case, I`m ready to spend a bit since I know that quality costs, but rather not more than 13-14K NOK (1600€/2400$), and I would love a good, cheaper option as well wink.gif


I see now that me writing simple and short forum-Q`s are a joke laugh.gif


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MickeM
post Sep 29 2009, 07:30 PM
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How about keeping the Crate and getting a preamp like what audioPaal has, an AMT SS-20. The clips I've listened too sound great! And if you have a PA when your band rehearse, I guess you will, you could plug it straight in there aswell.

Or a Backstar HT Dual pedal, it's the same preamp as the HT-5 but it's really a pedal to put before the amp instead. I never tried one but "my" musicstore says it's a teriffic pedal, it's also supposed to put new life to a solid state amp. And you can plug it straight into a PA.

Cheap solution.


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mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Sep 29 2009, 08:30 PM) *
How about keeping the Crate and getting a preamp like what audioPaal has, an AMT SS-20. The clips I've listened too sound great! And if you have a PA when your band rehearse, I guess you will, you could plug it straight in there aswell.

Or a Backstar HT Dual pedal, it's the same preamp as the HT-5 but it's really a pedal to put before the amp instead. I never tried one but "my" musicstore says it's a teriffic pedal, it's also supposed to put new life to a solid state amp. And you can plug it straight into a PA.

Cheap solution.


I have unfortunately NO experience with preamps...
My idea of how they work: In combination with a poweramp, they`ll work as an amp?
All bands I have has some kind of PA, but the quality is overall bad (and the good one has a defect sad.gif ), I presume that this will kinda wreck my tone?

And it`s just a personal taste, I`m not to fond of gain/distortion pedals for tone (maybe I just need an revelation)? I would like that all my tone (except FX ofc) would be coming frmo the amp, eventually a TS for some boost wink.gif


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ZakkWylde
post Sep 29 2009, 08:03 PM
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Get a 50 watt combo version of one of the most common tube heads - Will work both at home and with a band, not the best solution for your problem but a good compromise!

-Peavey 6505+ 112 combo
-Marshall JVM 215 combo
-Hughes & Kettner switchblade 50 combo
-Mesa Boogie F-50 combo
-Engl Screamer combo

Each of those amps should give you good cleans and evil distortion!


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MickeM
post Sep 29 2009, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Sep 29 2009, 08:51 PM) *
I have unfortunately NO experience with preamps...
My idea of how they work: In combination with a poweramp, they`ll work as an amp?
All bands I have has some kind of PA, but the quality is overall bad (and the good one has a defect sad.gif ), I presume that this will kinda wreck my tone?

And it`s just a personal taste, I`m not to fond of gain/distortion pedals for tone (maybe I just need an revelation)? I would like that all my tone (except FX ofc) would be coming frmo the amp, eventually a TS for some boost wink.gif

If you have a preamp you can make use of the Crate's poweramp bu plugging the preamp pedal/rackunit into the fx-return.

I fully agree that the distortion is better coming from the amp. But the thing about the Blackstart HT Dual is that it's the same unit that sits in the HT-5 amp that you concidered. Working as a preamp there. smile.gif


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mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 08:09 PM
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Many of my friends and acquaintances already have the Screamer 50, which I agree is a kickass amp!
But it`s pretty expensive, and just the footboard is costing me almost 300€ blink.gif

Regarding the rest of the amps, I`ve never had the oppurtunity to try out any of them...my local luthier is prioritating low-end amps for the most, which is understandable since his shop aint to big and they don`t sell too much of them in a small city like mine. I am very eager to test both the Peavey and the Hughes & Kettner. The Mesa is a bit expensive, and I think the Marshall retails pretty high as well.


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ZakkWylde
post Sep 29 2009, 08:13 PM
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They all fall under your 1600 Euro limit, IF and only if you are ordering them from Thomann in Germany. The prices are lower here in Germany compared to Norway, and they will ship to Norway too!

Test the amps in your area but buy them elsewhere would be my advice...


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- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Sep 29 2009, 09:13 PM) *
They all fall under your 1600 Euro limit, IF and only if you are ordering them from Thomann in Germany. The prices are lower here in Germany compared to Norway, and they will ship to Norway too!

Test the amps in your area but buy them elsewhere would be my advice...


If someone would gimmie one to test ph34r.gif
The problem with ordering from other countries is the lovely 25 % I have to pay in taxes/customs if the product I`m buying costs more than 30 € mad.gif
....or so I believe, I`ve not read all the rules about this subject, but I will do now that I`m about to order a bunch of things from ebay to my poor, disassembled aria

Any idea what shipping a 30 kg tubeamp to Norway would cost ?...I fear it wont be cheap tongue.gif


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MickeM
post Sep 29 2009, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Sep 29 2009, 09:03 PM) *
-Peavey 6505+ 112 combo

I'm still amazed by the prize of that baby


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mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Sep 29 2009, 09:32 PM) *
I'm still amazed by the prize of that baby


Care to share the prize smile.gif ?
And in which country wink.gif


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ZakkWylde
post Sep 29 2009, 08:36 PM
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http://www.thomann.de/de/peavey_6505_112_combo.htm

It says shipping costs to Norway for this amp: 30Euros!!!

30Euros is the shipping for all Combo amps I have listed

This post has been edited by ZakkWylde: Sep 29 2009, 08:44 PM


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Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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MickeM
post Sep 29 2009, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Sep 29 2009, 09:36 PM) *
It says shipping costs to Norway for this amp: 30Euros!!!

30Euros is the shipping for all Combo amps I have listed

Norway isn't part of EU, probably why, it's 15€ to Sweden. Customs will likely want to add customs tax and VAT also.


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ZakkWylde
post Sep 29 2009, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Sep 29 2009, 09:55 PM) *
Norway isn't part of EU, probably why, it's 15€ to Sweden. Customs will likely want to add customs tax and VAT also.


I would drive to Germany with a car from Norway and smuggle it back in my trunk, still cheaper than paying 25% ^^

Regarding the Peavey:

The 112 combo is made in korea or indonesia instead of the US, that's how they can maintain that pricing


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Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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Sollesnes
post Sep 29 2009, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Sep 29 2009, 09:55 PM) *
Norway isn't part of EU, probably why, it's 15€ to Sweden. Customs will likely want to add customs tax and VAT also.


Yeah, do keep in mind that there is a 25% VAT here in Norway smile.gif Things get really expensive, really quickly.

Edit: I just saw it was just mentioned.

This post has been edited by Sollesnes: Sep 29 2009, 09:11 PM
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mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 09:11 PM
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Holy horse! Is the 6505 seriously retailed at UNDER 500 € ? That stunned me a bit...even with taxes and shipping, it won`t cost me over 700€ (which is LESS than the price for my crate bought new).

Sounds too good to be true... does the amp have any drawbacks tongue.gif ?
The only thing I suspect is maybe some monkeybusiness on the clean channel, because all the demoes I find consists of metal \m/.... but I do hope it`s more versatile smile.gif ?


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 29 2009, 09:12 PM
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Well Series One 45W combo definitely seems like a good choice in your case.

I can only recommend Egnater Renegade beside that:


It's around 1500e on Thomman.

Here are the specs, looks promising:

Renegade 212 Features
• 65-Watt All-Tube 2 x 12” Combo
• Two Independent Channels Each with:
— Volume, Gain, 3-Band EQ
— Tight and Bright Voicing Switches
— 18w/65w Wattage Selector Switch
— Tube Mix Blends 6L6 and EL34 Power Tubes
• Master Controls:
— Presence & Density
— Individual Reverb Level for Each Channel with “Spillover”
— Main and Secondary Master Volumes
• Rugged Four-Button Footswitch with Channel Select Plus:
— Assign the REVERB, EFFECTS LOOP and MAIN 2 Volume to Just Channel 1, Just Channel 2 or Both - Right From the Pedal • Simple Master Bias Adjust with External Test Points
• Buffered Effects Loop
• Balanced XLR / ¼” Cabinet Voiced Line / Recording Output
• 1 x Celestion® Vintage-30 & 1 x Egnater® Elite-80 Speaker by Celestion®
• Side Handles & Detachable Casters
• Rugged Birch Construction
• 100V / 115V / 230V Voltage Selector
• Heavy Duty Cover Included
• Dimensons: 25" (L) x 10" (W) x 19" (H)
• Weight: 75 lbs

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Sep 29 2009, 09:12 PM


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mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 09:20 PM
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Wow, that Egnator Renegade DOES sound kickass!


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Sep 29 2009, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Sep 29 2009, 07:24 PM) *
If someone would gimmie one to test ph34r.gif
The problem with ordering from other countries is the lovely 25 % I have to pay in taxes/customs if the product I`m buying costs more than 30 € mad.gif
...



AFAIK if you are outside the EU then you should not be paying rated EU vat/iva/etc. but you would be liable to pay the 25% Norwegian tax. As Thomann are German they may be adding 19% German vat to the stated price automatically. If that is the case they should quote you the tax free price and then you calculate how much Norwegian tax you would need to pay. Could make a big difference to the perceived cost smile.gif.

One other thing - perhaps consider getting a ferry across to Newcastle upon Tyne in the UK. There are several big guitar shops there that carry quite a lot of different amps etc that you could test and I'm pretty sure that they would be happy to quote for delivery etc. A lot of Norwegians go XMas shopping in Newcastle every year cool.gif .


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mhskeide
post Sep 29 2009, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Sep 29 2009, 10:21 PM) *
AFAIK if you are outside the EU then you should not be paying rated EU vat/iva/etc. but you would be liable to pay the 25% Norwegian tax. As Thomann are German they may be adding 19% German vat to the stated price automatically. If that is the case they should quote you the tax free price and then you calculate how much Norwegian tax you would need to pay. Could make a big difference to the perceived cost smile.gif.

One other thing - perhaps consider getting a ferry across to Newcastle upon Tyne in the UK. There are several big guitar shops there that carry quite a lot of different amps etc that you could test and I'm pretty sure that they would be happy to quote for delivery etc. A lot of Norwegians go XMas shopping in Newcastle every year cool.gif .


would have been fun to go to England JUST to try amps, but maybe I could combine with a vacation sometime smile.gif
Anyways, I want a new amp before traveling to england again, it does cost some that as well you know ;P


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ZakkWylde
post Sep 29 2009, 09:42 PM
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Drawbacks on the 112 Peavey? It's not released yet!

I have played it on the Musikmesse, sounded great but who knows how they will last (made in indonesia)


--------------------


Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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