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> I Know This Is Touchy.., but if u dont want to even comment i understand
Red Tie
post Oct 13 2009, 03:57 PM
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I personally think that it is ridiculous to believe in a god, soley because of the fact you can never know. I'm not saying there isn't a god because i can't prove it, but if something is impossible to prove it is kind of meaningless to go on about and believe in. It doesn't serve any purpose except for spiritual and personal stimulation, it's like fooling one self. Anyway, believe all you want - i'm an absurdist btw, that would be the most fitting. Never ending argument.
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jer
post Oct 13 2009, 03:57 PM
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The only thing I take offense to is an "open discussion" that really isnt open.

To a non believer, the fictional chuck norris, obi-wan, & (insert deity name) are all in the same category. I don't see how that is any more borderline disrespectful than somebody claiming that I was created in the image of THEIR god.

When I see moderation peeking around the corner after one of those points, but not the other I wonder how open this discussion really is. Can you see my point? Where are the warnings for those saying that their god created everything. To me that isnt disrespectful, its a byproduct of the conversations topic. It cant not happen.

I've seen nothing even remotely disrespectful being written by anyone.

Nobody is putting anyone down for their beliefs. No name calling. No "you're an idiot for thinking that", etc...



Anyway. To me, my daughter summed it up perfectly with 1 sentence. I grabbed this from her blog. She said this when she was 4. Her mom wrote it.

QUOTE
Last month, Jillian and I were talking. Out of the blue, she asked “Is God real?” And I said that Mom believes in God, and Dad doesn’t, and our plan has been to teach you about God and let you decide what you believe.

Jillian thought about this for some time. Just pondering. And responded:

“I believe in Mermaids.”




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opeth.db
post Oct 13 2009, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 13 2009, 10:57 AM) *
The only thing I take offense to is an "open discussion" that really isnt open.

To a non believer, the fictional chuck norris, obi-wan, & (insert deity name) are all in the same category. I don't see how that is any more borderline disrespectful than somebody claiming that I was created in the image of THEIR god.

When I see moderation peeking around the corner after one of those points, but not the other I wonder how open this discussion really is. Can you see my point? Where are the warnings for those saying that their god created everything. To me that isnt disrespectful, its a byproduct of the conversations topic. It cant not happen.

I've seen nothing even remotely disrespectful being written by anyone.

Nobody is putting anyone down for their beliefs. No name calling. No "you're an idiot for thinking that", etc...


I agree with Jer. Go ahead and ban my account now. We all now what happens here when you speak your mind.

I went ahead and nominated this the "Dumbest Thread Ever" on a guitar instructional website.


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skennington
post Oct 13 2009, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 13 2009, 10:57 AM) *
I've seen nothing even remotely disrespectful being written by anyone.



You also are only seeing the surface and again, this is your opinion of what's being said. You don't see what goes on behind the scenes and who may or may not have been offended. What you call "moderation peeking" is a necessity.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 13 2009, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 13 2009, 02:57 PM) *
...
When I see moderation peeking around the corner after one of those points, but not the other I wonder how open this discussion really is. Can you see my point? Where are the warnings for those saying that their god created everything. To me that isnt disrespectful, its a byproduct of the conversations topic. It cant not happen.

...


You're presuming a simple cause-effect relationship here that, as Steve has already stated, is not the case.


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Shadow21
post Oct 13 2009, 04:30 PM
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I believe in a natural force that makes everything flow in the right order, but not in a god that creates and destroys, nor a god that loves you if you idolaze him and sends you to hell if you don't do what he wants, for me, that's just a way that medieval kings and priests used to make people scared for their own profit.

But I respect people that believe in God, human kind needs to believe in something, it has allways been like that, and it will allways be.
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jer
post Oct 13 2009, 04:34 PM
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I'm not presuming anything.

Look at the posts.

The only moderating that is being done is on the heels of a comment from a non-believer. True? Yes true.

Where is the "Hey lets watch it" when someone posts something that may offend a non-believer? Your position is noted.

Its impossible to moderate this subject without slanting it one way or another. And is that not what is happening?

Why dont you guys respect the views of those who want to discuss this topic like adults and stay out of it?



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"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"
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TheOldOnes
post Oct 13 2009, 04:49 PM
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As an evolutionary ecologist, it is rather difficult to understand why people believe in god. Not that science can proof that god does not exist - rather, evolution provides rational and simple explanations for everything we observe so there is little need to invoke any supernatural explanations.

There are number of posters that talk about themselves as active aetheists and some not understanding what the really means. Essentially it refers to aetheists whom actively address misconceptions or distortions of evidence (both in support and against). For example, the conclusion of intelligent designers to conclude there is a good (or an intelligent designer) because we don't understand the biology of a few obscure biological systems is not evidence either way. Interestingly, the 2 biological systems used to promote intelligent design (the protist flagella and calcium cascade syetem) once promoted by intelligent designers were both solved almost immediately when biologists actually looked at the systems.
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 13 2009, 04:53 PM
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Jer you are presuming a lot, not least you presume that a simple temporal connection exists between a post and a moderator's comment. As Steve and I have already said that is not the case here.

I would also remind you that it has been stated before several times by Micke that undermining a moderator on the forum whilst they are performing their duties is not acceptable behaviour. If you have an issue with how we moderate then you should raise it via pm.

tony- on behalf of the moderating team


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Fsgdjv
post Oct 13 2009, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE (browq @ Oct 13 2009, 03:13 PM) *
it's not a fairy tale. look it up on the internet. This was also mentioned in the History channel documentary called "the universe". This is a high quality scientific program. And they don't mention lies in a serie like that. Look it up. Or google it. You will find enough good recources

Actually, "The Universe" is a popular science show. Like all popular science it's full of lies and missunderstandings, so I'm afraid you're wrong there, it's FAR from a good scource. Nevertheless, I read something about it during physics in school a few years back and it is a popular theory so I suppose it's the fact that I accept as true for the moment.

And on topic, I'm agnostic.


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Rated Htr
post Oct 13 2009, 04:59 PM
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I have to agree with Jer until a certain point since I don't see atheists getting ofended by others believing in God so why should believers be offended by atheists? I respect all religious people, even have many friends who are desperately trying to convert me to that again but my real opinion is that it's ridiculous. When I used to see Carlos' Lessons and in the end he would say and God bless you, I would think it was ridiculous but I respect him as a person. For me it's like science, there are people with theories that you think: This guy is nuts! He doesn't know what is saying. Although you're not gonna hear the other scientists saying: can you believe this? He should be locked up since he's mad.

Personally, I think believing in God is ridiculous, and I don't say that people who do are ridiculous, it's just their thinking against mine, no one will no for sure who's right since religion can't proove it and science can't prove it.

In a way, it's just a way of being, some people need that belief not to question other stuff, some don't. Everyone has their reasons.


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Shadow21
post Oct 13 2009, 05:00 PM
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I have seen many threads like this in many other forums, and it allways ends the same... Some one just has to spoil it by arguing... rolleyes.gif
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Matt23
post Oct 13 2009, 05:19 PM
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I hope this isn't "undermining a moderator", but what are the posts you think are borderline?

QUOTE (Shadow21 @ Oct 13 2009, 05:00 PM) *
I have seen many threads like this in many other forums, and it allways ends the same... Some one just has to spoil it by arguing... rolleyes.gif


So far all I've seen is civil discussion, but maybe I'm missing something.
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Rated Htr
post Oct 13 2009, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE (Matt23 @ Oct 13 2009, 05:19 PM) *
I hope this isn't "undermining a moderator", but what are the posts you think are borderline?



So far all I've seen is civil discussion, but maybe I'm missing something.


Unless someone sent a PM to a moderator saying they were offended, I would say the same...Not wanting to "undermining the moderators" aswell


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johnvg
post Oct 13 2009, 05:31 PM
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I grew up in a methodist family and became an atheist when I was about 15.


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Braer
post Oct 13 2009, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (David Wallimann @ Oct 12 2009, 09:39 PM) *
You're right, these things are impossible...
But that's why these things are called miracles, right?
Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anyone of my own beliefs..
Just wanted to point out that you are absolutely right, those things are impossible. But for believers, what is impossible to man is possible to God, which makes him God.

Faith is definitely not something that anyone can force on anyone. If anyone is a believer, he will have to agree that it was because of a personal encounter of God that he is what he is today...
That's why all debates between believers and non believers often turn into a big mess.
My beliefs in a God who loved us so much that he would make himself man to die for my sins is completely foolishness to men (including me).. That's where faith comes in I guess...


Im an atheist.
It would be really cool tho if one man with one fish could feed 100 people or wathever it was. That is one of the reasons im not a biliver, those "miracels".. None of them have been proven YET, i dont think they ever will be.
A american guy (i dont remember his name), promised 3 million dollars to annyone that did a miracle or magic trick that he couldent do. Several years later, he still got his money.

I hope you understood what i ment, my english suck biggrin.gif
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jstcrsn
post Oct 13 2009, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (Shadow21 @ Oct 13 2009, 04:30 PM) *
he doesn,t send anyone to hell he asks if you want to go to heaven and lets you choose . if there is a god ,we could never measure up and we will all go to hell, the question is could god show himself to someone but not to you,. and why. if there is no god none of this forum matters


I believe in a natural force that makes everything flow in the right order, but not in a god that creates and destroys, nor a god that loves you if you idolaze him and sends you to hell if you don't do what he wants, for me, that's just a way that medieval kings and priests used to make people scared for their own profit.

But I respect people that believe in God, human kind needs to believe in something, it has allways been like that, and it will allways be.

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skennington
post Oct 13 2009, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE (Rated Htr @ Oct 13 2009, 12:30 PM) *
Unless someone sent a PM to a moderator saying they were offended


As I said, while on the surface, it may all look clean and the topic is going well, but in reality, there are others who have been offended just by reading.

It IS our job as moderators to keep the content of the site in order of the wishes of management. Until those wishes change, we will continue to do so.

We are not here to undermine anyone's statements or opinions and certainly not here to take sides.


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Marek Rojewski
post Oct 13 2009, 05:51 PM
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I understand Skenny, but we most probably both know that sometimes some people can be offended by almost anything.


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Rated Htr
post Oct 13 2009, 05:56 PM
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I understand Steve, if I did offend anyone, my appologies... smile.gif


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