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> I Know This Is Touchy.., but if u dont want to even comment i understand
Tomas Santa Clar...
post Oct 12 2009, 09:29 PM
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i belive that humanity is god and god is humanity simple has that smile.gif
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David Wallimann
post Oct 12 2009, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (opeth.db @ Oct 12 2009, 04:18 PM) *
Was atheist for 31 years. Now I believed for the past 4 years. I attend church regularly and in a worship band.

Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.


Exactly, well said!
I think God reveals himself to us personally...


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Ctodd
post Oct 12 2009, 09:36 PM
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Sure, something had to create this universe that we live in. I'll call whatever that something is God.

that's where my "belief" in God stops. I don't believe in the all-knowing, all-good God that most religious folks believe in.

So in short I keep with the scientific side of things. wink.gif


QUOTE
Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.


I wish this was the approach everyone took. Rather than having what God is "taught" to you in church.

This post has been edited by Ctodd: Oct 12 2009, 09:39 PM


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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Feb 5 2009, 03:41 AM) *
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playaxeman
post Oct 12 2009, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (David Wallimann @ Oct 12 2009, 10:31 PM) *
Exactly, well said!
I think God reveals himself to us personally...


I agree on that.



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jer
post Oct 12 2009, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE
I wish this was the approach everyone took. Rather than having what God is "taught" to you in church.


And herein lies the problem in my opinion.

When "people" get involved in someones "faith".

Teacher led prayer in school, pressure from parents, community, or whomever to "follow the herd", some regular dude standing at the front of the congregation telling you you're going to burn in hell because of a thought that went through your head as you watched your neighbors wife bend over to tie her shoe. And since he's wearing fancy robes its expected that you follow his lead.

Faith is a fine idea.

But I think that mankind has messed it up so unbelievably bad that honestly the more devout somebody is, the further I want to stay away from them.

You've heard the saying "never underestimate the supidity people in large numbers"?

Now imagine one of them says he's the conduit to "the lord". ohmy.gif

Grab a stack of newspapers and history books and start checking off the atrocities that can be traced backwards to a "belief".

As soon as it goes from "Hey I think this is how the world was made, and how I got here, and how I should live my life." to "This is what YOU should do." Then all the trouble starts.

You show me 5 Athiests and I'll show you 5 people who arent causing any trouble. 5 people who arent judging anyone. 5 people who arent teaching their kids (by the nature of their faith) exlusion and prejudice.



Edited for language by Micke on behalf of the moderating team


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lcsdds
post Oct 12 2009, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (opeth.db @ Oct 12 2009, 09:18 PM) *
Was atheist for 31 years. Now I believed for the past 4 years. I attend church regularly and in a worship band.

Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.

That is the difference between you and I Dan.....you DISCOVERED God on your own terms......I had him shoved down my throat and was told to believe "or else". Different perspectives. I wonder how many of us here in this forum would feel the way we feel about guitar if we were told from the time we were born that we either learn to play guitar or risk losing the love of our family and friends. This has essentially been my experience with religion......I can only comment on my experience. I know many others have had good experiences.....not so with me...... sad.gif

QUOTE (jer @ Oct 12 2009, 09:55 PM) *
And herein lies the problem in my opinion.

When "people" get involved in someones "faith".

Teacher led prayer in school, pressure from parents, community, or whomever to "follow the herd", some regular dude standing at the front of the congregation telling you you're going to burn in hell because of a thought that went through your head as you watched your neighbors wife bend over to tie her shoe. And since he's wearing fancy robes its expected that you follow his lead.

Faith is a fine idea.

But I think that mankind has messed it up so unbelievably bad that honestly the more devout somebody is, the further I want to stay away from them.

You've heard the saying "never underestimate the supidity people in large numbers"?

Now imagine one of them says he's the conduit to "the lord". ohmy.gif

Grab a stack of newspapers and history books and start checking off the atrocities that can be traced backwards to a "belief".

As soon as it goes from "Hey I think this is how the world was made, and how I got here, and how I should live my life." to "This is what YOU should do." Then all the trouble starts.

You show me 5 Athiests and I'll show you 5 people who arent causing any trouble. 5 people who arent judging anyone. 5 people who arent teaching their kids (by the nature of their faith) exlusion and prejudice.



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Edited quote, Micke

This post has been edited by MickeM: Oct 12 2009, 10:37 PM
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Ctodd
post Oct 12 2009, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 12 2009, 04:55 PM) *
You show me 5 Athiests and I'll show you 5 people who arent causing any trouble. 5 people who arent judging anyone. 5 people who arent teaching their kids (by the nature of their faith) exlusion and prejudice.


There are atheists out there that go way over the edge and try to "preach" atheism. but yeah, I would say your average non-believer isn't trying to stir up any trouble.

but neither is your average believer.

the extremists on one side will point out all the faults in the extremists of the other side (believers vs non-believers) in an attempt to make the whole opposition look bad.


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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Feb 5 2009, 03:41 AM) *
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jer
post Oct 12 2009, 10:21 PM
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That is true.

I'm not referring to extremists though.

Those that don't accept _____ will spend an eternity of suffering in the fires of hell.
So and so is a homosexual. The bible says he should be killed.

In my opinion thats pretty exclusionary and prejudice behavior.

You hear "Religious tolerance" being talked about. Yet the core beliefs (of christianity anyway, as I understand it) revolve around being in a special group that will enjoy an eternity of bliss while everyone else burns for eternity.

I understand extremists take it to a whole other level. Crusades. Blowing stuff up. Etc....









QUOTE (Ctodd @ Oct 12 2009, 04:04 PM) *
There are atheists out there that go way over the edge and try to "preach" atheism. but yeah, I would say your average non-believer isn't trying to stir up any trouble.

but neither is your average believer.

the extremists on one side will point out all the faults in the extremists of the other side (believers vs non-believers) in an attempt to make the whole opposition look bad.



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 12 2009, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 12 2009, 09:21 PM) *
... pretty exclusionary and prejudice behavior.

...


Good point Jer.

It's in a nut shell what we will not accept on the forum in any form.

Generally this is a nice discussion so lets keep it that way everyone smile.gif .

tony - for the moderating team


This post has been edited by tonymiro: Oct 12 2009, 10:41 PM


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purple hayes
post Oct 13 2009, 01:10 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Oct 12 2009, 02:56 PM) *
I was raised Mormon and both my family and my wife's family have a long history of Mormonism


This in no way surprises me because I always read your screen name as ldsdds. laugh.gif


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lcsdds
post Oct 13 2009, 02:11 AM
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QUOTE (purple hayes @ Oct 13 2009, 01:10 AM) *
This in no way surprises me because I always read your screen name as ldsdds. laugh.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif I REALLY wish I could change my screen name..... laugh.gif laugh.gif
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twist
post Oct 13 2009, 02:48 AM
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Oh. This is a realy dangerous topic for each forum. It somehow is a test for the community. If it can discuss religion for four pages without getting into some serious arguments its worth to stay smile.gif

My contribution to this will be short. I dont believe in god, but i have a clear image of what god could be. And i think that Religion has nothing to do with believe. Religion is a thing people constructed. And in many times its used to surpress, steer and sedate the people. In my opinion you dont need religion to believe.

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jer
post Oct 13 2009, 03:31 AM
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thats how I feel too twist. But I couldnt have summed it up like that. Nicely done.

So what does lcsdds stand for?

I thought is was a dental reference.

tongue.gif

QUOTE (twist @ Oct 12 2009, 08:48 PM) *
Oh. This is a realy dangerous topic for each forum. It somehow is a test for the community. If it can discuss religion for four pages without getting into some serious arguments its worth to stay smile.gif

My contribution to this will be short. I dont believe in god, but i have a clear image of what god could be. And i think that Religion has nothing to do with believe. Religion is a thing people constructed. And in many times its used to surpress, steer and sedate the people. In my opinion you dont need religion to believe.



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Canis
post Oct 13 2009, 03:54 AM
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Atheist =)

There is some points in some modern Christianity that I see as flawed: The extremists pushing beliefs down other people's throats, saying "YOU'RE WRONG!!" to anyone who says diffrently. I have an uncle who's stereotype that way.. He follows all of the extreme christian views: Criticizing homosexual people, threatening with the fires from below and all of that. It's 2009, when people should be allowed to walk around in the streets accepted for whatever color, flag or preferences they have, in my opinion.

(Quick disclaimer: I do not think all religious people are the stereotype I just described. This forum is the perfect example that there's normal believers smile.gif )

I believe, as so many other here do, that you have to find your own beliefs.

Great that we're able to keep this topic so civil, and I really hope I haven't offended anyone! smile.gif



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lcsdds
post Oct 13 2009, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 13 2009, 03:31 AM) *
So what does lcsdds stand for?

I thought is was a dental reference.

tongue.gif

It is a dental reference.....Purple Hayes thought it was LDSdds not LCSdds.......LCS are my intiials and DDS is a dental degree of course. LDS is an acronym for Mormons....Latter Day Saints....didn't know I was a saint did ya........ laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

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David Wallimann
post Oct 13 2009, 04:23 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Oct 12 2009, 11:18 PM) *
It is a dental reference.....Purple Hayes thought it was LDSdds not LCSdds.......LCS are my intiials and DDS is a dental degree of course. LDS is an acronym for Mormons....Latter Day Saints....didn't know I was a saint did ya........ laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


lol


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skennington
post Oct 13 2009, 04:30 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Oct 12 2009, 11:18 PM) *
LCS are my intiials and DDS is a dental degree of course.


So where does Monte come from... unsure.gif Lamont.. Watchit Sukka! laugh.gif


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lcsdds
post Oct 13 2009, 04:36 AM
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QUOTE (skennington @ Oct 13 2009, 04:30 AM) *
So where does Monte come from... unsure.gif Lamont.. Watchit Sukka! laugh.gif

BINGO.....I can't tell you how many people who have never met me assumed I am Black....... laugh.gif laugh.gif I'm as white as they come..... laugh.gif laugh.gif

I LOVED Sanford and Son........"LaMont......you big brown dummy". Classic show..... laugh.gif laugh.gif
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browq
post Oct 13 2009, 10:36 AM
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I also have something to say about this subject

I'm not going to call myself a atheist. Because that's just another lable people like te place on you. While i respect people choice to believe there are some things said here that really bother me

for example

if someone says "evolution can't be proven"...Wrong. It can, and it already has been proven. If you take some time to read articles about it and really open your mind then you realize that this is not just "some theorie". I really can't stand it when people approach it like that. For example: "in every living thing on this planet there is a universal DNA pattern, wheter it be a fly or pig or man. There a so many people who do not really understand what evolution means. There are some really good site's where you can find a lot of information. We did NOT evolve from apes. Evolution means whe share the same ancestor. One branch of that ancestor evolved into apes such as gorilla's, another branch evolved to the homo sapiens most primitive ancestor and modern men is the result of that continuous process of evolution. I also think that everything in this universe just happens by chance. There is no moral of right and wrong. For example, If a comet struc jupiter, is that right or wrong? If a star dies out, but from the ashes is born another star...is that good or bad? Things just happens. There is no right and wrong

The big bang is not a theory. It is sientific fact. The only thing whe don't know is what happened before the big bang? we probably won't be able to solve that, because if you look past the moment of creation, every question you ask just becomes another question. It becomes a singularity. And maybe god created the big bang. Who knows

That's why i don't have any problems with people who choose faith. But please, Don't put "creationism" on the same level as "evolution". Because creationism has proven sientific facts that cannot be ignored. Ofcourse there's nothing wrong with not believing it, that's another story. While creationism is nothing more than just saying "God snapped his fingers and created the entire universe" cause that is what it comes down to. My advice, Just read a lot on everything. Take the time, and then make a decision. Wheter that is believing in god or something else. It doesn't matter. Everyone has the fundemental right to believe whatever he or she wants


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Keilnoth
post Oct 13 2009, 11:48 AM
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That's clever thoughts browq. smile.gif

Believer or not, I really recommend everybody to read this book :
http://www.amazon.com/Levangile-Pilate-Fre...f_tit_7_rsrsrs0

It gives a new vision on who is Jesus and what happened in those ancient times. It's not a full historical story and probably more a fiction but still, it's good and interesting to open some new ideas and perhaps to forge their own opinion about the very first not modified, translated message of Jesus.

Unfortunately, I cannot find a translation in English. tongue.gif


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