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> I Know This Is Touchy.., but if u dont want to even comment i understand
jstcrsn
post Oct 13 2009, 12:10 PM
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don,t get me started, but since you did. if you powered every electric plant on earth for 7 million years you could run the sun for 1 second ,if you think about the fact that the sun is a small star and there are 10billion times 10 billion stars estimated in the universe and the big bang happened from nothing where did that much energy come from. the first law of thermal dynamics is you can,t get something from nothing. a scientific law is something that is fact such as 2 pus 2 is 4 that law will not change. that is why many scientists have a problem with the big bang . p.s. it is called a theory because they can,t prove any of it
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Matt23
post Oct 13 2009, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE (browq @ Oct 13 2009, 10:36 AM) *
I also have something to say about this subject

I'm not going to call myself a atheist. Because that's just another lable people like te place on you. While i respect people choice to believe there are some things said here that really bother me

for example

if someone says "evolution can't be proven"...Wrong. It can, and it already has been proven. If you take some time to read articles about it and really open your mind then you realize that this is not just "some theorie". I really can't stand it when people approach it like that. For example: "in every living thing on this planet there is a universal DNA pattern, wheter it be a fly or pig or man. There a so many people who do not really understand what evolution means. There are some really good site's where you can find a lot of information. We did NOT evolve from apes. Evolution means whe share the same ancestor. One branch of that ancestor evolved into apes such as gorilla's, another branch evolved to the homo sapiens most primitive ancestor and modern men is the result of that continuous process of evolution. I also think that everything in this universe just happens by chance. There is no moral of right and wrong. For example, If a comet struc jupiter, is that right or wrong? If a star dies out, but from the ashes is born another star...is that good or bad? Things just happens. There is no right and wrong

The big bang is not a theory. It is sientific fact. The only thing whe don't know is what happened before the big bang? we probably won't be able to solve that, because if you look past the moment of creation, every question you ask just becomes another question. It becomes a singularity. And maybe god created the big bang. Who knows

That's why i don't have any problems with people who choose faith. But please, Don't put "creationism" on the same level as "evolution". Because creationism has proven sientific facts that cannot be ignored. Ofcourse there's nothing wrong with not believing it, that's another story. While creationism is nothing more than just saying "God snapped his fingers and created the entire universe" cause that is what it comes down to. My advice, Just read a lot on everything. Take the time, and then make a decision. Wheter that is believing in god or something else. It doesn't matter. Everyone has the fundemental right to believe whatever he or she wants


I think that evolution and the big bang, and all these scientifically proven theories are true. I don't see how they are proof though that God doesn't exist.
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Rated Htr
post Oct 13 2009, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (opeth.db @ Oct 12 2009, 09:18 PM) *
Was atheist for 31 years. Now I believed for the past 4 years. I attend church regularly and in a worship band.

Untill to you discover GOD on your own it makes all the sense to me why you wouldn't beleive in one.


How do you know that was you discovered is GOD if I may ask? I know it sounds stupid but for me I think I discovered the true reality, when I was mega young I was a devoted christian, prayed before eating and everything and now, I'm an atheist, so to me, I think I've discovered God on my own, the way he doesn't exist to me.


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browq
post Oct 13 2009, 01:50 PM
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to matt23


I never Said that because i think those theory's are facts, that god doesn't exicst. Maybe he does, Maybe he doesn't. I merely wanted to say that people shouldn't treat them as just another theory

to jstcrsn


I think that most of the scientist in the world agree that the big bang did happen. And i'm not saying the universe was created out of nothing. The big bang theory implies that the universe at one point was the size of an attom. Containing the laws that hold our universe together. at some point that attom started to expand and expand untill it reached the size it is today. You can find proof of the big bang by turning on you radio or tv. The static you see and hear When the tv is on static or the radio is not tuned to a channel is signal from the big bang at them moment the universe started to expand verry rapidly. Because of this speed, it is referred to as a bang. so no, the big bang is not a theory. Almost every scientist in the world agree's that the universe was once the size of an attom. Fact
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jer
post Oct 13 2009, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE
You can find proof of the big bang by turning on you radio or tv. The static you see and hear When the tv is on static or the radio is not tuned to a channel is signal from the big bang at them moment the universe started to expand verry rapidly.


mellow.gif

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browq
post Oct 13 2009, 02:02 PM
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Static on you tv set. Or static on the radio. That alone is proof the big bang did happen
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jer
post Oct 13 2009, 02:09 PM
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No, I read it... I just...

Well....

Hey that makes as much sense as all of the other mythology out there.

Apollo, Thor, Maya, Ra, Jesus, Obi-Wan, etc...


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browq
post Oct 13 2009, 02:13 PM
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it's not a fairy tale. look it up on the internet. This was also mentioned in the History channel documentary called "the universe". This is a high quality scientific program. And they don't mention lies in a serie like that. Look it up. Or google it. You will find enough good recources
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Matt23
post Oct 13 2009, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (browq @ Oct 13 2009, 01:50 PM) *
to matt23


I never Said that because i think those theory's are facts, that god doesn't exicst. Maybe he does, Maybe he doesn't. I merely wanted to say that people shouldn't treat them as just another theory


Oh, ok, I misunderstood.
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browq
post Oct 13 2009, 02:18 PM
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No problem ^^. I should have specified. I can understand your comment
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jer
post Oct 13 2009, 02:18 PM
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I did look it up...

Static in tv signals is remnants of the big bang... So if I go up and wiggle the antenna, or put some aluminum foil on it it goes away.

So does that mean that if someone had put aluminum foil around that 1 atom then none of this would have never happened?



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jstcrsn
post Oct 13 2009, 02:18 PM
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QUOTE (browq @ Oct 13 2009, 01:50 PM) *
please rememder science is a fact based proceder,it has not been deemed a scientific law yet and so any knew info can change the outcome ,if you believe it is law already you will not look at knew info in the light a scientist should, i agree that most of them do- but ask them the question - can any knew info change the theory , if it can be changed ,it is not more than a theory, i,am just saying watch what they are telling you because they usually get government grants to continue ther work Please be careful.ps by the way am not big on government
to matt23


I never Said that because i think those theory's are facts, that god doesn't exicst. Maybe he does, Maybe he doesn't. I merely wanted to say that people shouldn't treat them as just another theory

to jstcrsn


I think that most of the scientist in the world agree that the big bang did happen. And i'm not saying the universe was created out of nothing. The big bang theory implies that the universe at one point was the size of an attom. Containing the laws that hold our universe together. at some point that attom started to expand and expand untill it reached the size it is today. You can find proof of the big bang by turning on you radio or tv. The static you see and hear When the tv is on static or the radio is not tuned to a channel is signal from the big bang at them moment the universe started to expand verry rapidly. Because of this speed, it is referred to as a bang. so no, the big bang is not a theory. Almost every scientist in the world agree's that the universe was once the size of an attom. Fact

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post Oct 13 2009, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 13 2009, 02:18 PM) *
I did look it up...

Static in tv signals is remnants of the big bang... So if I go up and wiggle the antenna, or put some aluminum foil on it it goes away.

So does that mean that if someone had put aluminum foil around that 1 atom then none of this would have never happened?


Don't forget that the Big Bang is also a theory for the world's creation, it's not a fact and not completly accept but, following the logic, it seems that way laugh.gif


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browq
post Oct 13 2009, 02:32 PM
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to jstcrsn

I agree with that you are saying. But for the facts available at this moment in time, It is most likely to assume the universe was created as explained by the big bang theory. Ofcourse if something new is discovered it could change the outcome. For example...a lot of scientist a while ago believed in the stady state universe theory. Implying that the universe had always been there and will always be there. Facts change all the time. I'n my eyes, the big bang theory the way it is now is fact. But that doesn't mean that when new facts come to light that i won't change my mind. i will. But for me, the big bang at this moment is the most likely explenation



to jer

perhaps so tongue.gif

to rated htr

Ofcourse such complex questions can never be awnsered with a 100% certainty. But as you said, It's is the most logical explenation

This post has been edited by browq: Oct 13 2009, 02:33 PM
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Keilnoth
post Oct 13 2009, 02:54 PM
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Wait... Obi Wan doesn't exist ?!!?!?!?


What about Chuck Norris ?!!

"The Big Bang was actually Chuck Norris roundhouse kicking God in the face."

Proof is here : http://www.cafepress.com/mediatees/1478535
Nobody can tell the Internet is wrong !

That prove this :

1. Chuck Norris exists because he has feet
2. God has a face so he exists
3. The Big Bang exists and it probably sounds like a big slap

tongue.gif


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Sensible Jones
post Oct 13 2009, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Keilnoth @ Oct 13 2009, 02:54 PM) *
Wait... Obi Wan doesn't exist ?!!?!?!?


What about Chuck Norris ?!!

"The Big Bang was actually Chuck Norris roundhouse kicking God in the face."

Proof is here : http://www.cafepress.com/mediatees/1478535
Nobody can tell the Internet is wrong !

That prove this :

1. Chuck Norris exists because he has feet
2. God has a face so he exists
3. The Big Bang exists and it probably sounds like a big slap

tongue.gif



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skennington
post Oct 13 2009, 03:09 PM
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Please guys, let's try to remain respectful of each others beliefs. Discussion is borderline at the moment.

/skennington on behalf of the moderating team


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jstcrsn
post Oct 13 2009, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE (browq @ Oct 13 2009, 02:32 PM) *
cool to know you are,nt locked in . i also wish that they would not call it creationism. I like the term (complexity beyond evoltionary theory) peace.
to jstcrsn

I agree with that you are saying. But for the facts available at this moment in time, It is most likely to assume the universe was created as explained by the big bang theory. Ofcourse if something new is discovered it could change the outcome. For example...a lot of scientist a while ago believed in the stady state universe theory. Implying that the universe had always been there and will always be there. Facts change all the time. I'n my eyes, the big bang theory the way it is now is fact. But that doesn't mean that when new facts come to light that i won't change my mind. i will. But for me, the big bang at this moment is the most likely explenation



to jer

perhaps so tongue.gif

to rated htr

Ofcourse such complex questions can never be awnsered with a 100% certainty. But as you said, It's is the most logical explenation

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jer
post Oct 13 2009, 03:38 PM
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Its all speculation.

But the speculation must remain implied?

Its been mentioned a few times how civil this has remained. And how its a testament to the community here being "grown up enough" to have the discussion.

Yet it feels like the moderators want to shut it down.

If we ALL cant speak freely then go ahead. Whats the point?

Its ok to say that "I dont believe in a God" but its "borderline disrespectful" to say "I think its all mythology and the proposed existence of the Christian god is no more valid than that of Zeus, Ra, Apollo, etc?"

I think that we need to remain observant to both sides. Reading peoples posts claiming there is a god isnt sending the athiests flying off the handle. And no one is stepping in reminding the "believers" that they may be getting too close to disrespecting those of us that dont believe.

Either keep it an open forum to everyone's beliefs or yeah, shut it down.

Its not an open discussion if when someone throws up debate from the "non-believer" side they have to tiptoe...





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skennington
post Oct 13 2009, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 13 2009, 10:38 AM) *
Its all speculation.

But the speculation must remain implied?

Its been mentioned a few times how civil this has remained. And how its a testament to the community here being "grown up enough" to have the discussion.

Yet it feels like the moderators want to shut it down.

If we ALL cant speak freely then go ahead. Whats the point?

Its ok to say that "I dont believe in a God" but its "borderline disrespectful" to say "I think its all mythology and the proposed existence of the Christian god is no more valid than that of Zeus, Ra, Apollo, etc?"

I think that we need to remain observant to both sides. Reading peoples posts claiming there is a god isnt sending the athiests flying off the handle. And no one is stepping in reminding the "believers" that they may be getting too close to disrespecting those of us that dont believe.

Either keep it an open forum to everyone's beliefs or yeah, shut it down.

Its not an open discussion if when someone throws up debate from the "non-believer" side they have to tiptoe...


Sounds to me like you are the one that is taking offense. My comment certainly did not point to either side and was merely a reminder. What Borderline Disrespectful IS to some, may not be to you.. Try to keep that in mind whilst reading and posting.


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