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C.J
post Mar 12 2007, 06:49 PM
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Hey everyone!

For quite a while now i have owned a very small 30W Yamaha F20 amp. Its not the best but was quite a good choice for me as i was a mere beginer. Now its time for me to get myself a new one biggrin.gif

On stage im usually forced to use rented amps or sometiems ones that i borrow.
Im not the most experienced in the Amplification area and would really appreciate some advice.
I need a good quality clean tone as well as good levels of noise. The effects i'm not too worried about cause i got a POD XTL which i've messed about with quite a bit to get a couple tones im in love with.

Oh yeah i forgot the price range! hehe
my limit atm is around $750 - 900
Im looking for either a combo amp or a half cab. (or even a full cab if its in my price range biggrin.gif)

any advice is very appreciated biggrin.gif

Thanks,
C.J

This post has been edited by C.J: Mar 12 2007, 06:52 PM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 12 2007, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (C.J @ Mar 12 2007, 01:49 PM) *
Hey everyone!

For quite a while now i have owned a very small 30W Yamaha F20 amp. Its not the best but was quite a good choice for me as i was a mere beginer. Now its time for me to get myself a new one biggrin.gif

On stage im usually forced to use rented amps or sometiems ones that i borrow.
Im not the most experienced in the Amplification area and would really appreciate some advice.
I need a good quality clean tone as well as good levels of noise. The effects i'm not too worried about cause i got a POD XTL which i've messed about with quite a bit to get a couple tones im in love with.

Oh yeah i forgot the price range! hehe
my limit atm is around $750 - 900
Im looking for either a combo amp or a half cab. (or even a full cab if its in my price range biggrin.gif)

any advice is very appreciated biggrin.gif

Thanks,
C.J


The POD will sound best through a totally clean amp like a keyboard or PA amp - you shouldn't really look at getting a standard guitar AMP at all - I'm not sure what is a good keboard AMP in your price range though ...


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C.J
post Mar 13 2007, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Mar 13 2007, 04:02 AM) *
The POD will sound best through a totally clean amp like a keyboard or PA amp - you shouldn't really look at getting a standard guitar AMP at all - I'm not sure what is a good keboard AMP in your price range though ...


Thanks smile.gif
I havnt played much live.. just been recording and jamming quite a bit. Wish i knew soemthign more bout amps lol
I'll look around for and check some keyboard amps out.

stil open for suggestions smile.gif


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MickeM
post Mar 13 2007, 02:49 PM
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I've never been looking for that clean tone myself and never looked at Fender amps but I accompanied a friend who used to play country once when he was getting an amp. They started up a tube fender in the store and gdamn.... the clean channel was so sweet I can still remember it like it was yesterday! (and it was not yesterday)

So definitly Fender, in my opinion, valve, 12" speaker(s).
I can't recall the model he got but if I can guess on a couple of amps that would be good. And we're talking tube watts here so don't compare it with your Yamaha... i would have guessed F20 was 20 W... and it's a solidstate amp, right?
Fender Blues Deluxe combo 40W
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 40W
Fender hot rod deville 60W (popular amp)

...any of these would fit your budget. Then there's a reissue of the '65 Blackface but I guess that's too expensive.


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C.J
post Mar 13 2007, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Mar 13 2007, 07:19 PM) *
I've never been looking for that clean tone myself and never looked at Fender amps but I accompanied a friend who used to play country once when he was getting an amp. They started up a tube fender in the store and gdamn.... the clean channel was so sweet I can still remember it like it was yesterday! (and it was not yesterday)

So definitly Fender, in my opinion, valve, 12" speaker(s).
I can't recall the model he got but if I can guess on a couple of amps that would be good. And we're talking tube watts here so don't compare it with your Yamaha... i would have guessed F20 was 20 W... and it's a solidstate amp, right?
Fender Blues Deluxe combo 40W
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 40W
Fender hot rod deville 60W (popular amp)

...any of these would fit your budget. Then there's a reissue of the '65 Blackface but I guess that's too expensive.


Thanks alot Mike!
I just checked the yamaha once more and it says 30W on the speaker itself. I guess the inbuilt head could be 20W.

Ive had a look at a couple fenders before and well they were really nice. theres a really nice combo amp i saw once but i just cant remember its Model.

Im gonna hav a look at those amps as soon as i get a chance.
Thanks again mike.

Any more?


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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 13 2007, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE (C.J @ Mar 13 2007, 11:03 AM) *
Thanks alot Mike!
I just checked the yamaha once more and it says 30W on the speaker itself. I guess the inbuilt head could be 20W.

Ive had a look at a couple fenders before and well they were really nice. theres a really nice combo amp i saw once but i just cant remember its Model.

Im gonna hav a look at those amps as soon as i get a chance.
Thanks again mike.

Any more?


I'm sure the Fender is a sweet Amp, but even the clean channel would probably mess up the Pod tones - there are output options you can use on the pod to set it up for this kind of amp, but the forums generally agree that they don't work too well - I would suggest that you try any Amp you are thinking of getting with the POD or you may be disappointed. Of course it may sound awesome, then you have all the Pod options plus the Fender drive channel as well which would be cool :-) Alternatively, if you really dig the fender tone (or any other Amp you try for that matter) you can just turn off the pod AMP and CAB modeling and use it for the effects only.

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Mar 13 2007, 04:54 PM


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C.J
post Mar 13 2007, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Mar 13 2007, 09:24 PM) *
I'm sure the Fender is a sweet Amp, but even the clean channel would probably mess up the Pod tones - there are output options you can use on the pod to set it up for this kind of amp, but the forums generally agree that they don't work too well - I would suggest that you try any Amp you are thinking of getting with the POD or you may be disappointed. Of course it may sound awesome, then you have all the Pod options plus the Fender drive channel as well which would be cool :-) Alternatively, if you really dig the fender tone (or any other Amp you try for that matter) you can just turn off the pod AMP and CAB modeling and use it for the effects only.


I was thinking of doing just that. I didnt really wanna end up regretting it.
May i ask you which forums you reffered to when you said "but the forums generally agree that they don't work too well"?

maybe i can check them out for suggestions too :smile.gif

Thanks andrew!

Still open for suggestions


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bricktop
post Mar 13 2007, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (C.J @ Mar 13 2007, 05:27 PM) *
I was thinking of doing just that. I didnt really wanna end up regretting it.
May i ask you which forums you reffered to when you said "but the forums generally agree that they don't work too well"?

maybe i can check them out for suggestions too :smile.gif

Thanks andrew!

Still open for suggestions


Go with an all tube amp. Once you do, you'll never go back to solid state. I have a fender blues jr. which is very loud to me, it you need it louder just mic it...

john


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fkalich
post Mar 13 2007, 05:54 PM
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Look at Carvin, I suggest the Vintage Belair. $700. Read reviews on them. I think you will be sold if you do your research.
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MickeM
post Mar 13 2007, 06:20 PM
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I will correct myself, forget about the Fenders, the POD XTL sounds like a thing you'd plug into a PA. Just forget an amp, I belive Andrew is right there. It's a mismatch.

Personally I think that when playing live these multi effects deliver a plastic sound. Played with headphones or for recording in a studio, great, can't make a POD vs a real amp apart. But if your intention is to play live, go for a valve amp!

So for rehearsing with a band or playing live a POD can never replace a valve amp. And if you're looking for an amp to run without the POD my first choice wouldn't be Fender either.


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C.J
post Mar 13 2007, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Mar 13 2007, 10:50 PM) *
I will correct myself, forget about the Fenders, the POD XTL sounds like a thing you'd plug into a PA. Just forget an amp, I belive Andrew is right there. It's a mismatch.

Personally I think that when playing live these multi effects deliver a plastic sound. Played with headphones or for recording in a studio, great, can't make a POD vs a real amp apart. But if your intention is to play live, go for a valve amp!

So for rehearsing with a band or playing live a POD can never replace a valve amp. And if you're looking for an amp to run without the POD my first choice wouldn't be Fender either.


Mike: Im stil thinknign about this one thign. Will a POD XTL sound better through and amp, a PA system (direct) or of i mic an amp? (bit confused)

Ive only tried it with a solid state amp so far and once with a PA system( the PA system wasnt too great on its own). Got a couple gigs coming up and was wondering what may be the best to get the tone out of.
The POD sounds amazing on headphones. You're definitely right about that. It doesn sound quite as good with the solid state Yamaha i got but its stil better than any of the other pedals i've used.

Is the POD XTL just not meant to be played through an amp in your openion?
Any valve amps you have in mind i can check out?

Cheers


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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 13 2007, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (C.J @ Mar 13 2007, 12:27 PM) *
I was thinking of doing just that. I didnt really wanna end up regretting it.
May i ask you which forums you reffered to when you said "but the forums generally agree that they don't work too well"?

maybe i can check them out for suggestions too :smile.gif

Thanks andrew!

Still open for suggestions


Line6 have forums for the pod - I think that's where I picked up the info. FWIW, I have decided that if I ever need to gig I'll go with a Bheringer 300W keyboard Amp - clean un characterful tone is the key here!

QUOTE (C.J @ Mar 13 2007, 01:32 PM) *
Mike: Im stil thinknign about this one thign. Will a POD XTL sound better through and amp, a PA system (direct) or of i mic an amp? (bit confused)

Ive only tried it with a solid state amp so far and once with a PA system( the PA system wasn't too great on its own). Got a couple gigs coming up and was wondering what may be the best to get the tone out of.
The POD sounds amazing on headphones. You're definitely right about that. It doesn sound quite as good with the solid state Yamaha i got but its stil better than any of the other pedals i've used.

Is the POD XTL just not meant to be played through an amp in your openion?
Any valve amps you have in mind i can check out?

Cheers


The POD is ok to play through any AMP as long as it is clean - my point is that any guitar amp as awesome as it is on its own, is intended to add character to your tone (even on the clean channel, as the speakers also impart character). This is usually exactly what you want. With a POD though, it is overkill as the tone comes from the modeling. In theory, you could put the pod straight through the PA if it is up to it quality wise, or use your own clean Amp. PAs and keyboard AMPS are both designed to be neutral sounding, guitar amps aren't . Micing an amp is also a little pointless as you do this to capture the tone of an Amp you like, then feed it through the PA. With the POD you cut out the middleman, as you don't need the amp for tone just for loudness, and the PA gives you that.

Now, I'll caveat all of this by saying that this is in theory only - I have no experience using my POD live, just in a studio setting, so I will defer to anyone that has used a POD in a live setting.


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C.J
post Mar 13 2007, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Mar 13 2007, 11:55 PM) *
Line6 have forums for the pod - I think that's where I picked up the info. FWIW, I have decided that if I ever need to gig I'll go with a Bheringer 300W keyboard Amp - clean un characterful tone is the key here!
The POD is ok to play through any AMP as long as it is clean - my point is that any guitar amp as awesome as it is on its own, is intended to add character to your tone (even on the clean channel, as the speakers also impart character). This is usually exactly what you want. With a POD though, it is overkill as the tone comes from the modeling. In theory, you could put the pod straight through the PA if it is up to it quality wise, or use your own clean Amp. PAs and keyboard AMPS are both designed to be neutral sounding, guitar amps aren't . Micing an amp is also a little pointless as you do this to capture the tone of an Amp you like, then feed it through the PA. With the POD you cut out the middleman, as you don't need the amp for tone just for loudness, and the PA gives you that.

Now, I'll caveat all of this by saying that this is in theory only - I have no experience using my POD live, just in a studio setting, so I will defer to anyone that has used a POD in a live setting.


Wow! That really helped me out. I really wanna go put your theory into action and see if its true. It does make a lotta sence. Im gonna look to find myself a good keyboard amp i can try this out on. Got over a month till my next live gig so i should be able to know by then. But i don't think i'l be buying anythign until i know for bout how to make my POD sound best.

Ill check the Line6 Forums too.

Thanks alot andrew! and everyone else!
Cheers

This post has been edited by C.J: Mar 13 2007, 08:20 PM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 13 2007, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (C.J @ Mar 13 2007, 03:18 PM) *
Wow! That really helped me out. I really wanna go put your theory into action and see if its true. It does make a lotta sence. Im gonna look to find myself a good keyboard amp i can try this out on. Got over a month till my next live gig so i should be able to know by then. But i don't think i'l be buying anythign until i know for bout how to make my POD sound best.

Ill check the Line6 Forums too.

Thanks alot andrew! and everyone else!
Cheers


Hey, let me know how it turns out, because after you buy an Amp You'll be ahead of me and I'll be learning from you - I'd love to hear what you try and what you think - maybe I'll even have to eat my words if you try a tube amp and it sounds great smile.gif


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fkalich
post Mar 13 2007, 09:12 PM
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get a tube amp. no effects except reverb. it will retain it's value. if you get effects, in two years they are garbage. forget the ones with tube preamp. in your price range it is probably either fender or carvin. if you want a mexican amp made out of particle board with so-so speakers, get the fender. if you want a nice looking all wood amp with great speakers for a better price, get the carvin tube amp. As far as sound, both sound good.
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C.J
post Mar 13 2007, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Mar 14 2007, 01:10 AM) *
Hey, let me know how it turns out, because after you buy an Amp You'll be ahead of me and I'll be learning from you - I'd love to hear what you try and what you think - maybe I'll even have to eat my words if you try a tube amp and it sounds great smile.gif


I'l definitely let you know how it turns out. Im gonna give both a good tube amp and either a good PA system or a keyboard amp a shot before purchasing either. Maybe a tube amp will add a nice cleaner rounded touch to the tones too. Thx andrew

QUOTE (fkalich @ Mar 14 2007, 01:42 AM) *
get a tube amp. no effects except reverb. it will retain it's value. if you get effects, in two years they are garbage. forget the ones with tube preamp. in your price range it is probably either fender or carvin. if you want a mexican amp made out of particle board with so-so speakers, get the fender. if you want a nice looking all wood amp with great speakers for a better price, get the carvin tube amp. As far as sound, both sound good.


Im definitely gonna try a couple tube amps too. The only complication fkalich is that my POD XT Live tones may not sound as good as the amps will add their own effects to the tone. But I could be wrong too. Definitely gonna try em out. And if a tube amp does actually work out, I'll check out both Fender and Carvin amps. A friend of mine recommended the 'Fender Hot Rod DeVille 410' just incase tube amps did the trick. Anyone else used one of these?

This post has been edited by C.J: Mar 13 2007, 09:31 PM


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sanders4617
post Mar 14 2007, 12:11 AM
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From my experience.

Multi-effects pedals are nice if your in your bedroom late at night, not wanting to make much noise. Sounds great through headphones and maybe hooked up to the computer...
..
..

Personally.. If I had the money on me.. I would NOT buy a multi-effects pedal with a keyboard amp. Once you start doing anything live, you will not have a good setup. Multi-effects pedals sound like crap live. I would do like some have mentioned and buy a tube amp w/ reverb. Don't get one that has delay, echo, flanger, and all that. They usually aren't any good.

I have a Rivera Duo Hundred Twelve (2x12) 100 Watts all tube. Sounds SO GOOD on clean. Has a pretty darn good distortion as well. And also.. I can't tell a difference between what comes out of the headphones (using a multi-effects pedal) and what comes out of an amp. They both sound the same... which is very digital. Ugh


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post Mar 14 2007, 02:51 AM
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Hey CJ, I'm having the same problem deciding what amp to buy (it's a nice problem, isn't it!?)

I haven't had a chance to actually test the POD / Kb Amp combo yet. If you try one in the next few weeks, could you post back here and let me know how it turned out?
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C.J
post Mar 14 2007, 06:22 AM
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QUOTE (sanders4617 @ Mar 14 2007, 04:41 AM) *
From my experience.

Multi-effects pedals are nice if your in your bedroom late at night, not wanting to make much noise. Sounds great through headphones and maybe hooked up to the computer...
..
..

Personally.. If I had the money on me.. I would NOT buy a multi-effects pedal with a keyboard amp. Once you start doing anything live, you will not have a good setup. Multi-effects pedals sound like crap live. I would do like some have mentioned and buy a tube amp w/ reverb. Don't get one that has delay, echo, flanger, and all that. They usually aren't any good.

I have a Rivera Duo Hundred Twelve (2x12) 100 Watts all tube. Sounds SO GOOD on clean. Has a pretty darn good distortion as well. And also.. I can't tell a difference between what comes out of the headphones (using a multi-effects pedal) and what comes out of an amp. They both sound the same... which is very digital. Ugh


Hey thx sanders. So what you mean to say is completely leave aside the POD XTL and go for an all tube amp? That might be somethign i have to end up doing. hopefully not smile.gif. I've heard many people use the POD XT Live, live. Gues im trying to figure out how they do it. Line 6's obvious intentions when creating the POD Xt Live were to make an effects pedal that would work in a studio as well as live, hence the word POD XT Live heh.

I know the deal about not using multi effects pedals on stage and you're quite right. The only thign however is that many of the POD's sounds aren't that 'digital' compared to many other effects pedals like the Digitech GNX4 which i've seen argued on a few forums.

Ofcourse you could be right about the entire thign too and i could just get it all rubben in my face tongue.gif

I dont really want to keep aside the POD which i think was a really good purchase. So i guess im gonna try make it sound good on stage smile.gif. If it doesnt work, im gonna end up doing what you just told me haha.

Thanks alot sanders

QUOTE (radarlove1984 @ Mar 14 2007, 07:21 AM) *
Hey CJ, I'm having the same problem deciding what amp to buy (it's a nice problem, isn't it!?)

I haven't had a chance to actually test the POD / Kb Amp combo yet. If you try one in the next few weeks, could you post back here and let me know how it turned out?


Haha it really is a very nice problem. apparently its a problem quite a few people have. I will for sure, if i find a way of making it sound good on stage that is. I saw on the Line6 forums that many use their POD XTL's with Atoms (combos) or Fender Hot Rot DeVilles. I'm waitign for a chance to get a hold of a couple and test run it myself. After all i gotta please myself with the tone coming out of my guitar tongue.gif . Im also gonna try the POD vs an all tube amp on its own, one with reverb. So i can know for myself which ones better. I'll try it with the volume quite high and in a very open room if possible (to maintain onstage settings).

Thx everyone.


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