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> Must I Have To Learn Some Metal ?
Staffy
post Oct 23 2009, 09:34 PM
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I was checking out the REC-program earlier today, which I actually didn't in detail before, and I discovered that the most difficult lessons that shall be used to acchieve a high ranking in the REC-program actually is Metal/Neoclassic/Hardrock. I couldn't find any lessons with higher rating than 7 (maybe one was 8) in the fields of blues/jazz, which is actually what Im playing. That means that I have to be a shredder who looks like a crossing between Billy Gibbons and Albert Einstein, in order to progress to the top in the REC-program.............. biggrin.gif

I do believe though, that it will be possible to do some really hard jazz or blues lessons as well, so consider this as a challenge, all of our beloved teachers !!! smile.gif

//Staffay

This post has been edited by Staffy: Oct 23 2009, 09:35 PM


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MickeM
post Oct 23 2009, 09:36 PM
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Emir proved to have some wild country chops in a video some time ago, difficulty 10 should be possible for other genres aswell biggrin.gif


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Staffy
post Oct 23 2009, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Oct 23 2009, 10:36 PM) *
Emir proved to have some wild country chops in a video some time ago, difficulty 10 should be possible for other genres aswell biggrin.gif


Yeah, I saw that I believe, was it the one when Muris came second in Guitar Idol ???


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MickeM
post Oct 23 2009, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Oct 23 2009, 10:49 PM) *
Yeah, I saw that I believe, was it the one when Muris came second in Guitar Idol ???

I don't really remember, could also have been a youtube video or when testing Muris' Blackstar stack unsure.gif


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Staffy
post Oct 23 2009, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Oct 23 2009, 10:55 PM) *
I don't really remember, could also have been a youtube video or when testing Muris' Blackstar stack unsure.gif


Thats the one I meant, when he tested the Blackstar stack. smile.gif


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jafomatic
post Oct 23 2009, 10:48 PM
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He played a few country licks through Muris' amp but he also published a whole country lesson afterwards: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/hot_country_licks_in_g/ which is rated difficulty of 7.

Maybe we as a community don't find blues or jazz to be as difficult or maybe those that decide the ratings also wouldn't think that, having some fewer techniques and lower tempos than the shred/whatever.

Maybe it's up to we-the-students to make some targeted lesson suggestions. I'm sure there's some crazy experimental jazz style that should be hard enough to rate above 7.

EDIT: Will anything still sound like jazz or blues with higher tempo and unnecessary shred techniques inserted? I'm looking on youtube, see what I can find.

Found "jazz shred" which ... I dunno, still sounds a little like the standard it's being played over? I guess?



Well. There's a song name for a supposed jazz standard (Donna Lee) that one can "shred" upon. Copy to the lesson request forum? smile.gif

This post has been edited by jafomatic: Oct 23 2009, 10:54 PM


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Staffy
post Oct 23 2009, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Oct 23 2009, 11:48 PM) *
He played a few country licks through Muris' amp but he also published a whole country lesson afterwards: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/hot_country_licks_in_g/ which is rated difficulty of 7.

Maybe we as a community don't find blues or jazz to be as difficult or maybe those that decide the ratings also wouldn't think that, having some fewer techniques and lower tempos than the shred/whatever.

Maybe it's up to we-the-students to make some targeted lesson suggestions. I'm sure there's some crazy experimental jazz style that should be hard enough to rate above 7.

EDIT: Will anything still sound like jazz or blues with higher tempo and unnecessary shred techniques inserted? I'm looking on youtube, see what I can find.


Oooh, theres plenty of stuff.... playing Metheny, Scofield, Holdsworth, Mike Stern stuff is extremely hard.... even that it might not be "shred", the difficulty herein lies in the timing and rhytmic approach. The we have our former student Guthries stuff.. laugh.gif he's actually playing blues that is beyond everything.... And all the real good be-bop players, Pat Martino, Wes Montgomery and even our Swedish wiz Ulf Wakenius is not easy stuff..... to play broken chords in high tempos is very hard....

Look here and You understand what I mean.........



This post has been edited by Staffy: Oct 23 2009, 11:10 PM


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jafomatic
post Oct 23 2009, 11:11 PM
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Ok, so if it's out there. Make a request of it. If it's rated wrong, give feedback. There's two solutions and I think there's a third:

What would "learning some metal" really mean? do they use secret notes that the rest of us haven't heard of? Their pianos go up to K instead of G? smile.gif

I suppose it would also mean listening to a style you may not enjoy so much, but Pandora can make that a lot easier. By figuring out what you like and letting you hear things in that style that are not displeasing, Pandora will choose a surprising amount of metal/shred that didn't suck at all. It does this for any style using data from that music genome project.

Even styles like aboriginal death blues thrash folk.



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Jerry Arcidiacon...
post Oct 23 2009, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Oct 23 2009, 10:34 PM) *
I do believe though, that it will be possible to do some really hard jazz or blues lessons as well, so consider this as a challenge, all of our beloved teachers !!! smile.gif


In my Jazz Notes Series you find two lessons rated 6 (can you play them easily, Staffay?). They are not impossible to play but they have some difficulties inside, especially if someone has never played this "language". Jazz phrasing is very different from what we usually find in a rock/heavy context, talking about patterns, licks and so on.
There are also many jazz lessons from other instructors which are not so easy to play. I will cover some more advanced stuff through the end of the series.


QUOTE (jafomatic @ Oct 24 2009, 12:11 AM) *
Even styles like aboriginal death blues thrash folk.


Please give me some references or band names biggrin.gif


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fkalich
post Oct 24 2009, 04:32 AM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Oct 23 2009, 05:05 PM) *
Oooh, theres plenty of stuff.... playing Metheny, Scofield, Holdsworth, Mike Stern stuff is extremely hard.... even that it might


Now I am not a Jazz fan myself (at this point in life), I don't think a person needs to be a fan of everything, although you still can respect it. But I can imagine Jazz masters and fans shaking heads were they to hear any metal/rocker/shredders condescending to them w.r.t. technical expertise/skill level.

I always assumed that the reason we did not see a lot of difficult Jazz lessons, was because that is not the best foot forward of very many of the teachers. I think it is almost like playing a different instrument (because you really can't use much distortion or the complex chords turn to mud). If anyone is not only a master shredder/rocker, but also a Jazz master, well that is being a lot.

edit: grammar (a person who has English as their first language sounds like an idiot when they use poor grammar, and I try to hide that)

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Staffy
post Oct 24 2009, 07:36 AM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Oct 24 2009, 12:11 AM) *
What would "learning some metal" really mean? do they use secret notes that the rest of us haven't heard of? Their pianos go up to K instead of G? smile.gif


What I was meaning was that I'm not interested in extreme sweep picking, tapping or neoclassical cadenzas, I rather want to focus on improvisation and a tonal approach.

QUOTE (Jerry Arcidiacono @ Oct 24 2009, 12:37 AM) *
In my Jazz Notes Series you find two lessons rated 6 (can you play them easily, Staffay?). They are not impossible to play but they have some difficulties inside, especially if someone has never played this "language". Jazz phrasing is very different from what we usually find in a rock/heavy context, talking about patterns, licks and so on.
There are also many jazz lessons from other instructors which are not so easy to play. I will cover some more advanced stuff through the end of the series.


I checked the lessons Jerry, I will definitely say that the Parker-blues lesson shall be rated higher since it's a pretty tough one. I haven't played any them, but at a first glance it doesn't seems so hard (I have played quite a lot of jazz during the years...), what I'm looking after is really modern jazz stuff, which seems to be missing in GMC's lessons in general, even though there are some fusion stuff.
EDIT: You are absolutely right about jazz phrasing, herein lies the difficulties, rock a.k.a "beat" -music is pretty straigh forward since You can play straight on the beats using even played 8's, 16's etc. In jazzmusic there is the "triplet-feel", which must be felt, since it's even impossible to write it out with standard notation. Older jazz players tends to lean more towards a dotted 8-note followed by a 16-note feel, while more modern players leans more towards two 8-notes. It's pretty easy to find older styles of jazz in GMC, but I miss the modern one's...

Btw. Looking forward to Your next lesson in the series ! smile.gif

//Staffay

This post has been edited by Staffy: Oct 24 2009, 07:48 AM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Oct 24 2009, 05:28 PM
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Very nice point Staffy, I hope some more difficult lessons will come up for jazz.

I'm preparing one funky fusion solo advanced lesson, I hope it will be hard enough..


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Staffy
post Oct 24 2009, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Oct 24 2009, 06:28 PM) *
Very nice point Staffy, I hope some more difficult lessons will come up for jazz.

I'm preparing one funky fusion solo advanced lesson, I hope it will be hard enough..


Hahaaa... I bet it will, I'm still struggling with the MTP-assignment..... smile.gif

Anyhow, I was thinking a little bout the REC-program. At the moment You shall do a lesson and try to play exactly as in the lesson. Why don't loosen up the rules a little and let the student play the concepts of the lesson in his/her own way and then be graded? It should appeal a lot more to me at least, since I believe that the most important in music is to speak with Your own voice, instead of copying anyones else's licks. (which of course is good for practicing/understanding/learning music)
The point here is that practically anyone can learn to play even the hardest solo with enough training, but when it comes to improvisation/telling the audience a story, it's a totally different task. To educate someone to be creative is of course much harder than just showing a phrase or some chords, the main thing is actually what You do with it AFTER You mastered the chord/phrase. I love the collaborations though, because they gives the opportunity to PLAY after Your own mind.... smile.gif Just some thought of mine....

//Staffay


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