2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> My Tone
Marcus Siepen
post Nov 6 2009, 12:25 PM
Post #1


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



Many of you guys were asking me about how I get my tone, so here is a little guide:

Lets start with my guitars, as most of you know I am only using Gibson Les Pauls. They deliver exactly the kind of sound that I want, a very warm, fat and singing tone, with lots of low end and sustain without end. If you like this kind of sound then you should definitely go for a guitar with humbuckers, single coils would be the wrong type of pickups for that kind of sounds, also a mahogany body is recommended, cause this wood delivers this warm fat tone.

As I mentioned before I am using humbuckers in all my guitars, the combination of a Les Paul with an EMG 81 is very powerful, but also the regular Gibson stock pickups sound absolutely great and deliver an even more singing tone. Actually I am using different guitars depending on what sounds I want, the ones armed with EMG's are awesome for fast highgain songs, while the Gibson pickups are great for more midtempo stuff like our song "Bright Eyes" for example.

About amplifiers, there are many great amps out there, and in the end it is all a matter of taste I guess, but I found "my" tone with Mesa Boogies Tripple Rectifier, the most powerful amp I know. It is amazing how fast and precise this amp is, how much air you can move with it smile.gif A Rectifier and a Les Paul can be a very devastating couple that can tear down walls, and this is exactly what I like wink.gif

A Rectifier offers gain without end, but actually I am not really using that much gain. If you use too much distortion your sound will only get muddy, less precise and you will lose all you attack, this is the opposite of what I want and actually it is a mistake that I saw with many of your recordings, many of you just use too much gain. What I do is I turn down the gain a bit, but by dubbling my guitars in a recording the sounds gets huge, without losing the attack.

This is something that you can try yourself easily, record something with not too much gain and listen to that single track. You might think that the gain is not enough, but then just double it by recording it again, listen to both tracks at the same time, and you'll be surprised... wink.gif

By the way, doubling is something essential if you want to have a big fat sound, everything we reocrd with BG is doubled AT LEAST, there are parts that are doubled 4 times, if not more often, like that the sound gets real big. For my lessons here I normally record either 3 or 4 tracks of rhythm guitars. If I go for 3, like in the Tom Morello lesson, I pan 2 tracks completely to left and right, while the 3rd track stays in the middle. If I do 4 tracks, then there will be 2 tracks left and 2 track right.

A nice trick when it comes to doubling is to use different sounds or even different amps, like this you can really shape your tone. You can take the low end form one amp, the mids from another and the high frequencies from a third one if you want, but I guess for home recording this is a bit too much wink.gif For the Tom Morello lesson I used a Rectifier for tracks one and 2, and another Rectifier, that was set a bit different, for the third track.

When it comes to effects, I am not really using a lot, my normal rhythm tone has no effects at all, while my clean sound has a bit of chorus, reverb and delay, this is about it. Only sometimes I am using more, like for the Solo in the Morello lesson, here I am also using a Wah, actually the auto Wah of my Axe-FX Ultra. In my opinion too many effects only kill your sound, so I am very selective about them.

And well, last but not least, there is this saying "the tone comes from your fingers"... and guess what, it is absolutely true! Of course all my equipment helps me big time to get my sound and tone, but even if I am using your gear, it will still sound like me, cause after all we form our tone with our fingers, our vibrato, our bends, the way we pick strings... so equipment is not everything.


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
audiopaal
post Nov 6 2009, 12:28 PM
Post #2


Competitions Coordinator - Up the Irons
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 5.447
Joined: 17-February 08
From: Stavanger, Norway
Member No.: 4.276



Very nice read smile.gif
Thank you!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neurologi
post Nov 6 2009, 12:45 PM
Post #3


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 370
Joined: 28-August 09
From: Vaasa, Finland
Member No.: 7.566



Nicely done, good sir.


--------------------
My gear? Mesa Boogie Triaxis - TC Electronic G-Major - Marshall 9200 Dual MonoBloc (2x100W) - Fender Roc Pro 4x12 (300W) + a whole lot more!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ZakkWylde
post Nov 6 2009, 12:45 PM
Post #4


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 3.185
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Germany
Member No.: 2.164



I am totally addicted to the Gibson tone, wther it's a Les Paul,SG, an Explorer or a Flying V!


--------------------


Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tolek
post Nov 6 2009, 02:07 PM
Post #5


Learning Rock Star
Group Icon

Group: Student Instructor
Posts: 2.888
Joined: 23-March 07
From: Brighton
Member No.: 1.402



Absolutely helpful post! Thanks a lot, Marcus! I`ve learn things that I´ve never thought about. smile.gif Great!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Crazy_Diamond
post Nov 6 2009, 04:03 PM
Post #6


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 897
Joined: 28-November 06
From: Montreal, Canada
Member No.: 956



Cool Post Marcus thanks a lot ....


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SensE
post Nov 6 2009, 04:50 PM
Post #7


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 508
Joined: 5-February 08
From: Wichita, USA
Member No.: 4.144



Thank you Marcus for sharing this. It is really helpful.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Siepen
post Nov 7 2009, 02:53 PM
Post #8


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



You're welcome smile.gif


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sensible Jones
post Nov 7 2009, 03:16 PM
Post #9


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 6.267
Joined: 2-January 09
From: London-ish. UK.
Member No.: 6.517



Very informative!! Thanks Marcus!!
biggrin.gif


--------------------
I'd rather have a full Bottle in front of me than a full Frontal Lobotomy!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Siepen
post Nov 10 2009, 11:12 AM
Post #10


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



A little addition here: when in my lessons I talk about recording my guitars with a rectifier, I am not using my "real" Mesa Boogie Rectifier here at home of course. I guess my neighbours, and also my family, wouldn't really like that wink.gif For recording here at home I always used more appropriate amps, in the beginning I used a couple of Pods (I had the riginal one, later then Pod 2.0 and in the end a Pod XT), after that I switched to Guitar Rig 3, and now I am using my Axe-FX Ultra. The big advantage of such tools is of course that you can get the sound of a full blown amp at any volume that you want, try that with a real Rectifier at home and you will be in trouble wink.gif You also don't have to mess around with cabinets, power soaks or microphones, all this makes recording at home much more comfortable.
If you have such an amp or ampsimulation yourself, but you are not happy with your sound yet, try to experiment a bit with it. Chose a preset that comes rather close to the tone that you would like to have and try to tweak it into "your" sound, most of todays modeling amps offer rather good sounds for home recording.


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Nov 10 2009, 05:33 PM
Post #11


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



Thanks for the insights Marcus! That was a very interesting reading! smile.gif

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Nov 10 2009, 05:33 PM


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Clare
post Nov 10 2009, 05:42 PM
Post #12


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: 25-September 08
From: nova scotia,canada
Member No.: 5.959



Thank you very much Marcus for sharing your expertise in this field...a MESA Rectifier....only in my dreams brother!!...amp modeling is the closest i,m gonna come to owning one of those babies!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kahall
post Nov 11 2009, 04:12 AM
Post #13


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 989
Joined: 21-March 07
From: Springfield Missouri USA
Member No.: 1.393



Thanks for the tips Marcus. I also really enjoyed your changing of the pick ups lesson.


--------------------
Had a guitar hanging, just about waist high, and we are going to play these things until the day we die.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Santiago Diaz Ga...
post Nov 11 2009, 05:38 AM
Post #14


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 1.769
Joined: 28-April 09
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Member No.: 7.117



Great tips Marcus!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Evil_Invader
post Nov 11 2009, 06:27 AM
Post #15


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 71
Joined: 1-July 08
From: Quebec, Canada
Member No.: 5.412



QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Nov 6 2009, 06:25 AM) *
What I do is I turn down the gain a bit, but by dubbling my guitars in a recording the sounds gets huge, without losing the attack.

This is something that you can try yourself easily, record something with not too much gain and listen to that single track. You might think that the gain is not enough, but then just double it by recording it again, listen to both tracks at the same time, and you'll be surprised... wink.gif

By the way, doubling is something essential if you want to have a big fat sound, everything we reocrd with BG is doubled AT LEAST, there are parts that are doubled 4 times, if not more often, like that the sound gets real big.

A nice trick when it comes to doubling is to use different sounds or even different amps, like this you can really shape your tone. You can take the low end form one amp, the mids from another and the high frequencies from a third one if you want


Hey Marcus!

Interesting tips! I had read about most of them before but as I have the opportunity to ask you about them, I sure will!We'll begin to record the guitar for our first album in a month or so, so I'm really trying to learn everything I can. By the way, we record ourselves (except drums) as we don't have an immense budget and we like to take our time..

So, we my main interrogation is about using different amps for tracks of the same guitarist. I have a Framus Cobra with VHT Fatbottom cab and my friend has a Bogner Uberschall and an old Marshall Jubilee 87' cab. I initally thought about recording a track with the framus and a track with the bogner for each guitar. I then thought about running the Framus and the Bogner in stereo to record both guitars (on different cabs). Maybe we can even switch the cabs for each head for a track? What would be the way to go according to you? Maybe we should even use all the guitar we have to get a wider spectrum?

What about mics? What do you use? How many of them? Placed in witch way?
For the demos we only used à SM57 but now we'd like to use a Sennheiser 609 as well.
I also heard that another 57 placed far in the room would bring more ''presence'' or ''air'' to the sound. What are your views on this?

When you talk about some the fact that on some parts of a song you record more than 2 tracks, I"m not very knowledgable (other guitarist is better than me) and it may sound like a dumb question but, how can you record let's say 8 guitars on a riff and 2 on another one right after? That won't sound "unbalanced''?

So far we recorded with full gain like when we play live and I also think and have heard a lot that it would be better to cut on it a bit.

Thanks a lot for you help and time! Sorry for the average english!

Gab


--------------------
LIVE FOR STEEL - DIE FOR STEEL!!!

RIOTOR thrash/death metal hell

http://www.riotor.ca

http://www.myspace.com/riotor

Gear:

Ibanez S5470 sol
Bc Rich Warlock Nj

Framus Cobra v2
VHT Fatbottom p50e
Rocktron Xpression
Rocktron Midimate
DOD SR231 EQ
Boss NS-2
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Siepen
post Nov 12 2009, 02:07 PM
Post #16


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



Hi Gab, whenever you (or anybody else) has a question, feel free to ask me here, thats what this forum is there for ;-)

About using several amps: You have two good amps available (I know and have tried both), so you should definitely use them. Here you have different options:

Option one is very simple: You use your setup, your partner in crime will use his stuff and thats it. Like this you will have two different tones for your guitars that should result in a good overall sound.

Option two is a little different: For that option you would have to split the signal coming from your guitar and send it into both amps at the same time. So when for example you are recording a rhythm guitar take, you would actually be playing through both amps. Both are recorded obviously and mixed into one track for the recording. Then when the other guy is recording his takes, he does the same, so both amps deliver one final take. Actually this is what is done on every major production today, nobody only uses one amp anymore, we for example are using up to 4 amps to create one guitar take, and I am sure that there are bands that use way more amps than that wink.gif

This system of recording has the advantage that you can really create a great tone, using the best of your amps, but you have to do a proper sound check of course, it doesn't make sense to just put up both amps and record them, you have to match their sounds so the result is what you want to hear on your album later.

This is something VERY important by the way, make a proper sound check for every instrument. One of the biggest lies in rock'n'roll is "we'll fix it in the mix"! If you record crap the result after the mix will still be crap, period! If you record guitars that have no low end, then there will be no low end either after the mix, cause you can't bring something up in the mix that is just not there, so definitely take your time for a soundcheck.

About microphones, and SM57 is for sure a good choice, and if you have more than one than I would also recommend using at least two. I can't really give you a real advice here on how to put them up, you should experiment a bit with positioning them in your soundcheck, and you will see that small changes in the mics position can make big differences in the sound. Also test all speakers in your cabinets, sometimes there are also big sound differences among them.

About the amount of takes, well, this is up to you. In the early days most bands only recorded 2 rhythm guitars, one panned left, the other one right, and that was it. Today, in heavy music, most bands record more guitars, which results in a much heavier and fatter sound, but this only makes sense if your playing is precise enough. If your playing is too sloppy than this would only result in a big sound chaos, in that case it would for sure be better to stick to 2 guitars only. (Don't get me wrong, I am not saying your playing is sloppy wink.gif ) If you will record more than just 2 guitars then also experiment a bit with panning them, you could pan 2 to extreme left/right, and put the other 2 more in the middle for example (If you record 4 guitars). I would recommend to record 3 or 4 rhythm guitars, but if some parts need more attention you can of course record more guitar layers for such parts, there is no law saying that there always have to be the same amount of guitars.

And finally, definitely make sure not to use too much distortion, this is a rather common mistake that many people make. The distortion will add up with every take that you will record, so if you record 4 fully distorted rhythm guitars the result will be completely over-distorted, and you will lose all of your attack, it will be really hard to tell what exactly you are playing. So definitely pay attention to your gain settings. In doubt, chose a gain setting and quickly record 2 takes, one take doubling the other, and then check the result, like this you can hear if the amount of gain is enough.

I hope this could help you a bit, if there are more questions, just ask.


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Evil_Invader
post Nov 13 2009, 11:43 PM
Post #17


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 71
Joined: 1-July 08
From: Quebec, Canada
Member No.: 5.412



Wow thanks for the long and detailed answer!!!

Option 2 seems definatly better to me! Maybe we can run the 2 amps on a single cab thought? We'd need an Y to do that thought. I have spoted this (Radial big shot ABY): http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Should do the trick I believe. Got any other suggestion?

We will definatly record at least 2 tracks by guitarist, maybe more. 2 is what we did on the demos. I also like the idea to add more guitars to some parts! We will experiment, after all, we record ourselves to take our time!

What are the 4 amps you guys use out of curiosity? Triple Recto for sure I guess as well as? You record with multiple cabs too?

Maybe we can make 2 tracks on a cab and 2 others on the other (always running 2 heads).

We will experiment with mics as you said for sure. Do you put some mics far from the cab(s) for the ''air'' and ''presence''?

Thanks a lot for your help again Marcus! It is very appreciated!

In pure steel,

Gab

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Nov 12 2009, 08:07 AM) *
Hi Gab, whenever you (or anybody else) has a question, feel free to ask me here, thats what this forum is there for ;-)

About using several amps: You have two good amps available (I know and have tried both), so you should definitely use them. Here you have different options:

Option one is very simple: You use your setup, your partner in crime will use his stuff and thats it. Like this you will have two different tones for your guitars that should result in a good overall sound.

Option two is a little different: For that option you would have to split the signal coming from your guitar and send it into both amps at the same time. So when for example you are recording a rhythm guitar take, you would actually be playing through both amps. Both are recorded obviously and mixed into one track for the recording. Then when the other guy is recording his takes, he does the same, so both amps deliver one final take. Actually this is what is done on every major production today, nobody only uses one amp anymore, we for example are using up to 4 amps to create one guitar take, and I am sure that there are bands that use way more amps than that wink.gif

This system of recording has the advantage that you can really create a great tone, using the best of your amps, but you have to do a proper sound check of course, it doesn't make sense to just put up both amps and record them, you have to match their sounds so the result is what you want to hear on your album later.

This is something VERY important by the way, make a proper sound check for every instrument. One of the biggest lies in rock'n'roll is "we'll fix it in the mix"! If you record crap the result after the mix will still be crap, period! If you record guitars that have no low end, then there will be no low end either after the mix, cause you can't bring something up in the mix that is just not there, so definitely take your time for a soundcheck.

About microphones, and SM57 is for sure a good choice, and if you have more than one than I would also recommend using at least two. I can't really give you a real advice here on how to put them up, you should experiment a bit with positioning them in your soundcheck, and you will see that small changes in the mics position can make big differences in the sound. Also test all speakers in your cabinets, sometimes there are also big sound differences among them.

About the amount of takes, well, this is up to you. In the early days most bands only recorded 2 rhythm guitars, one panned left, the other one right, and that was it. Today, in heavy music, most bands record more guitars, which results in a much heavier and fatter sound, but this only makes sense if your playing is precise enough. If your playing is too sloppy than this would only result in a big sound chaos, in that case it would for sure be better to stick to 2 guitars only. (Don't get me wrong, I am not saying your playing is sloppy wink.gif ) If you will record more than just 2 guitars then also experiment a bit with panning them, you could pan 2 to extreme left/right, and put the other 2 more in the middle for example (If you record 4 guitars). I would recommend to record 3 or 4 rhythm guitars, but if some parts need more attention you can of course record more guitar layers for such parts, there is no law saying that there always have to be the same amount of guitars.

And finally, definitely make sure not to use too much distortion, this is a rather common mistake that many people make. The distortion will add up with every take that you will record, so if you record 4 fully distorted rhythm guitars the result will be completely over-distorted, and you will lose all of your attack, it will be really hard to tell what exactly you are playing. So definitely pay attention to your gain settings. In doubt, chose a gain setting and quickly record 2 takes, one take doubling the other, and then check the result, like this you can hear if the amount of gain is enough.

I hope this could help you a bit, if there are more questions, just ask.



--------------------
LIVE FOR STEEL - DIE FOR STEEL!!!

RIOTOR thrash/death metal hell

http://www.riotor.ca

http://www.myspace.com/riotor

Gear:

Ibanez S5470 sol
Bc Rich Warlock Nj

Framus Cobra v2
VHT Fatbottom p50e
Rocktron Xpression
Rocktron Midimate
DOD SR231 EQ
Boss NS-2
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
johnvg
post Nov 14 2009, 04:54 AM
Post #18


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 61
Joined: 12-March 08
From: York, PA
Member No.: 4.549



Hey Marcus, I wanted to know if you approach mixing lead or solo guitar the same as rhythm? For example if you had recorded 3 rhythm tracks and put them left, middle, and right would you have two takes of the solo panning them left and right or would you have one take and put it in the middle? Thanks!!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marc_Maiden
post Nov 14 2009, 05:03 AM
Post #19


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.164
Joined: 23-October 08
From: Fremont, CA
Member No.: 6.124



i can answer that one for you john,

first off, solos should always be recorded mono, i learned that one from instructor emir hot. unless you are doing some effect with panning, the solo should be in the middle. (at least i think)

if you are doing harmonized solos, i like to do the following:

record 1 part of the harmony, pan left. record the other harmony, pan right. if i am looking for a thick sounding harmony, i copy and paste both takes, and make them center.


its ok, however, to record your solos with stereo effects. a popular stereo effect is "ping pong" delay which pans each delay left and right and goes back and forth like a ping pong. sounds really cool!


a lot of pros these days do not record with effects turned on. they record a dry mono signal (no effects just plain guitar) and use VST effects to add delay and reverb. However you do it is up to you.



this is what i learned in my experiences, im curious to see what Marcus has to say about this.


--------------------
- Marc
Current Set up:
Atomic Reactor 2x12 Cab/power amp with a Digitech rp1000 as a preamp
Schecter c1 plus electric guitar

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gitarrero
post Nov 18 2009, 02:18 PM
Post #20


Accomplished Rock Star
Group Icon

Group: Student Instructor
Posts: 4.052
Joined: 24-June 08
From: Rottweil, Germany
Member No.: 5.361



Hi Marcus,

very interesting topic and article!
I once read a story about two famous guitar players, can`t recall their names right now, who exchanged gears to see if they could sound like the other one. Guess what? They sounded exactly like before, despite the completely changed gear! I could never quite believe that until I did the same thing in my band. I always thought that our lead guitarist sounds exactly like Brian May when we cover Queen songs. I thought it was because of his setup, until I picked up his guitar he just played a Queen-solo on, but I didn`t sound like Brian May at all...he took my guitar, played a bit with my amp and sounded just like Brian May ohmy.gif ...Same with AC/DC, only that I am the one who can reproduce their crunchy rhythm sound better... cool.gif
But I also have a question:
When you record 3 or even 4 rhythm guitars, how do you reproduce that fat sound live on stage when your alone?

Grüße aus Münster

Gitarrero


--------------------
Check my band project with fellow GMCer VilleFIN
Facebook
Youtube
Soundcloud
Twitter
Instagram



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th May 2017 - 09:48 AM