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jstcrsn
post Nov 10 2009, 03:38 PM
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the other day i acheived speeds i''ve been dilegent in practicing for. Speeds of 600 notes a minute and above in a few different patterns ive developed to try to reach my weaknesses (playing out side the strings). some times i push myself much faster then i can go and then slow down , but most of the times i'm only palying at around 360 notes per minute (metronome is set @90 per min. 4 notes per beet.) but it is frustrating that most ofthe time i play slow ,if i speed up it gets sloppy- am i traning my ear for sloppiness ? - is this common or is there any thinng i might need to do differently,don't have the ability to record it for you.

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Nov 10 2009, 03:40 PM
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Staffy
post Nov 10 2009, 03:52 PM
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Nah, that is just natural, when You reach your limit speed-wise, it starts to become "sloppy". I think the trick is to play near the limit as much as possible and above it also, since even that it sounds bad and You miss some notes it will gradually become cleaner and cleaner. Pick some phrases and try to improve the speed at them first and have a goal of maybe 10 bpm in increase in one week.... it's a slow process, but there's no way to manage other than practice... smile.gif

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Bogdan Radovic
post Nov 10 2009, 05:04 PM
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You should gradually work your way "up" the speed. Start really slow and gradually bring up tempo with 10bpm increments. After you get to the limit stay there and then start increasing tempo by 1bpm at a time. You should gradually over time break the barrier. Its ok to play on a "over the limit" tempo even if its sloppy - to get the feel of the speed and then you back off by some bpm , later on attack the tempo again and again. But its wrong to practice for example 100bpm directly if you can't play clean on 80bpm. Every practice session should start with a slow tempo and work your way up from there. After you get more comfortable with exercises you can move the starting tempo to a little higher value (not too much)- but remember to warm up properly before each practice!

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Marcus Siepen
post Nov 12 2009, 01:33 PM
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Building speed needs time and patience. Keep practicing with a metronome and for sure start slowly. As Bogdan already said, increase the speed in small steps and always make sure you are playing as precise as possible, no sloppy playing at comfortable speeds here! When you are reaching your limits and you try to push it you will play sloppy for sure, which is ok in the beginning, after some time, when the faster speeds will become ok for you, you have to make sure that there is no sloppy playing anymore though.


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Daniel Realpe
post Nov 12 2009, 09:59 PM
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Great advice, you guys pretty much nailed it!

I would add that being very conscious of the pulse and where it meets with your pick helps to organize the notes a lot at high speeds, this helps clear out the sloppiness.


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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Nov 12 2009, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 10 2009, 03:38 PM) *
the other day i acheived speeds i''ve been dilegent in practicing for. Speeds of 600 notes a minute and above in a few different patterns ive developed to try to reach my weaknesses (playing out side the strings). some times i push myself much faster then i can go and then slow down , but most of the times i'm only palying at around 360 notes per minute (metronome is set @90 per min. 4 notes per beet.) but it is frustrating that most ofthe time i play slow ,if i speed up it gets sloppy- am i traning my ear for sloppiness ? - is this common or is there any thinng i might need to do differently,don't have the ability to record it for you.


you're putting too much pressure I think, seems that you spend lot of time practicing technique, you have too relax a bit. Practicing with mistakes IS practicing mistakes, yeah, so you can be 200% more efficient by playing correct all the time.


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jstcrsn
post Nov 13 2009, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Nov 12 2009, 09:59 PM) *
Great advice, you guys pretty much nailed it!

I would add that being very conscious of the pulse and where it meets with your pick helps to organize the notes a lot at high speeds, this helps clear out the sloppiness.

NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY PULSE ?
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Santiago Diaz Ga...
post Nov 13 2009, 05:11 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 13 2009, 03:14 AM) *
NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY PULSE ?


He means every Beat of the metronome. You must know, first, what note duration are you playing. If you're playing 8th notes, 16th notes, etc. Then, Know how many of the notes you're playing fits in every beat, so you will know where you'll accent the note. That will guide you when playing in high speeds to not lose the line.


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jstcrsn
post Nov 13 2009, 01:17 PM
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QUOTE (Santiago Diaz Garces @ Nov 13 2009, 05:11 AM) *
He means every Beat of the metronome. You must know, first, what note duration are you playing. If you're playing 8th notes, 16th notes, etc. Then, Know how many of the notes you're playing fits in every beat, so you will know where you'll accent the note. That will guide you when playing in high speeds to not lose the line.


the metronome is playing two notes per beat with three note per string patterns .this has taken years and i still am not going any where, you can read my page to see how long i've been doing this , just seems like something should have happened by now

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Nov 13 2009, 01:18 PM
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jafomatic
post Nov 13 2009, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 13 2009, 06:17 AM) *
the metronome is playing two notes per beat with three note per string patterns .this has taken years and i still am not going any where, you can read my page to see how long i've been doing this , just seems like something should have happened by now


If you are playing 2 notes per click of the metronome, these are 8th notes. They are an even number of notes per click, and not really something you're going to play comfortably in 3nps patterns. 3nps, meaning three-notes-per-string, is most suited to triplet feel. Triplets are 3 notes per click (8th note triplet) or 6 notes per click (16th triplets).

I would suggest you ignore how long you've been practicing this. Your practice may not have been constructive. I would also suggest that if you insist on 3nps patterns, you also choose triplet feel to get started. It is MUCH easier to get yourself in synch this way. Here's my recommendation:

1. set metronome for ~75 bpm (that's 75 quarter notes, or crotchets, per minute)
2. play three notes on each string for every time the metronome clicks.
3. the first note of each triplet should be played at the same time as the metronome click.
4. the other two notes should be perfectly divided between the clicks.
5. use your own voice to get the division, say aloud "one trip let" a few times along with the metronome to get the groove

When you feel very comfortable with this at 75 bpm, try 90, then 100. Then you can set it back to 75 and doubletime your own playing up to 6 notes per click. That's sixteenth triplets.

Do this correctly for a week and you'll see massive progress. I promise.


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jstcrsn
post Nov 13 2009, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Nov 13 2009, 01:55 PM) *
If you are playing 2 notes per click of the metronome, these are 8th notes. They are an even number of notes per click, and not really something you're going to play comfortably in 3nps patterns. 3nps, meaning three-notes-per-string, is most suited to triplet feel. Triplets are 3 notes per click (8th note triplet) or 6 notes per click (16th triplets).

I would suggest you ignore how long you've been practicing this. Your practice may not have been constructive. I would also suggest that if you insist on 3nps patterns, you also choose triplet feel to get started. It is MUCH easier to get yourself in synch this way. Here's my recommendation:

1. set metronome for ~75 bpm (that's 75 quarter notes, or crotchets, per minute)
2. play three notes on each string for every time the metronome clicks.
3. the first note of each triplet should be played at the same time as the metronome click.
4. the other two notes should be perfectly divided between the clicks.
5. use your own voice to get the division, say aloud "one trip let" a few times along with the metronome to get the groove

When you feel very comfortable with this at 75 bpm, try 90, then 100. Then you can set it back to 75 and doubletime your own playing up to 6 notes per click. That's sixteenth triplets.

Do this correctly for a week and you'll see massive progress. I promise.

the reason i use 3 nps patterns with a click every two notes,
over the years i've developed ,in triplets is apause between skipping strings and then my picking speeds up to get back on time so i thought the triplet notes over the eight click would some how force things to perfect, ido have the pattern set up in 16 note loopable patterns so i can count 1234 1234 1234 1234 and then restart the loop
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jafomatic
post Nov 13 2009, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 13 2009, 07:12 AM) *
the reason i use 3 nps patterns with a click every two notes,
over the years i've developed ,in triplets is apause between skipping strings and then my picking speeds up to get back on time so i thought the triplet notes over the eight click would some how force things to perfect, ido have the pattern set up in 16 note loopable patterns so i can count 1234 1234 1234 1234 and then restart the loop


I'm not sure what you mean by "eight click" but it may not matter because I'm suggesting that you throw all of that existing method aside; it's convoluted and clearly not working for you.

Three notes per string and three notes per click means that your alternate picking on each string will be very easy to get started and build speed. Throwing two notes per click (8th note) at the three note per string fingerings is actually going to be a much more difficult starting point. Evidenced by your existing frustration.

So, with three notes per string, and also three notes per click, everything will be much easier for you to play cleanly and repeat. The picking always starts with a downstroke on strings 6, 4, 2. Always starts with upstroke on strings, 5, 3, 1. You never repeat the same direction twice in a row, ever. You play the same number of notes on every string, you don't have to change strings in the middle of a triplet, and when you speed the thing up (later!) into 16th triplets it sounds like shred... because it is.






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jstcrsn
post Nov 13 2009, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Nov 13 2009, 02:23 PM) *
I'm not sure what you mean by "eight click" but it may not matter because I'm suggesting that you throw all of that existing method aside; it's convoluted and clearly not working for you.

Three notes per string and three notes per click means that your alternate picking on each string will be very easy to get started and build speed. Throwing two notes per click (8th note) at the three note per string fingerings is actually going to be a much more difficult starting point. Evidenced by your existing frustration.

So, with three notes per string, and also three notes per click, everything will be much easier for you to play cleanly and repeat. The picking always starts with a downstroke on strings 6, 4, 2. Always starts with upstroke on strings, 5, 3, 1. You never repeat the same direction twice in a row, ever. You play the same number of notes on every string, you don't have to change strings in the middle of a triplet, and when you speed the thing up (later!) into 16th triplets it sounds like shred... because it is.

i know what you saying and learned that way- 3 nps triplets - the only thing is that i did not realize that iwas developing a pause between string skipping so iam am trying to get out of the bad habit that i learned
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jafomatic
post Nov 13 2009, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 13 2009, 07:27 AM) *
i know what you saying and learned that way- 3 nps triplets - the only thing is that i did not realize that iwas developing a pause between string skipping so iam am trying to get out of the bad habit that i learned


Ahh, sounds like you were playing the first 3 (of 4) sixteenth notes and then playing a 16th note rest for the last one? Yeah, that will be an interesting habit to break. I'd still use the spoken method to fix that.

Say aloud any phrase that is made of three even and direct syllables (i.e. "one trip let" or perhaps "g m c") and divide them evenly from the click. Remember that each syllable matches the beginning of a time section that is 33% of the beat.



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jstcrsn
post Nov 13 2009, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Nov 13 2009, 02:38 PM) *
Ahh, sounds like you were playing the first 3 (of 4) sixteenth notes and then playing a 16th note rest for the last one? Yeah, that will be an interesting habit to break. I'd still use the spoken method to fix that.

Say aloud any phrase that is made of three even and direct syllables (i.e. "one trip let" or perhaps "g m c") and divide them evenly from the click. Remember that each syllable matches the beginning of a time section that is 33% of the beat.

right now ive set the cilcj for every note and focusing on timing every note with click perfectly and am hopeful this might work if not i ll give yours a try thanks
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