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Nimrandir
post Dec 7 2009, 10:02 PM
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Thanks Emir! smile.gif I think I got it. So, if I've got a minor chord, and I use borrowed dominant, I play phrygian dominant over the dominant, and then go back to my original scale, or stay in harmonic minor. If the chord is major, I go for mixolydian. So, if I've got progression Am-G-F-G#dim7-Am I can play A aeolian over 1st 3 chords, then switch to E phrygian dominant for dim7 and go back to A aeolian/stay in A harmonic minor?
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Emir Hot
post Dec 7 2009, 11:20 PM
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QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Dec 7 2009, 09:02 PM) *
Thanks Emir! smile.gif I think I got it. So, if I've got a minor chord, and I use borrowed dominant, I play phrygian dominant over the dominant, and then go back to my original scale, or stay in harmonic minor. If the chord is major, I go for mixolydian. So, if I've got progression Am-G-F-G#dim7-Am I can play A aeolian over 1st 3 chords, then switch to E phrygian dominant for dim7 and go back to A aeolian/stay in A harmonic minor?

Exactly smile.gif Or just throw a diminished 7 arpeggio over that (only chord notes) and you simply can't go wrong.


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Nimrandir
post Dec 9 2009, 09:46 PM
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Hi Emir!

Today was officially my final working day in this year, so I can concentrate more on guitar! smile.gif Just have to finish some programming projects on this week (one of them is a program which displays scale notes on the fretboard smile.gif ) and I'll be almost completely free smile.gif.

I've done my very first experiment with chord progressions (normally I don't go out of a given key smile.gif ), and now I'm a bit confused, as I've done it partly with theory partly by ear. I've attached a gtp, the chords are played by strings and I've also added guitar which plays pretty much random notes just to see if I'm using correct scales. So, first part is in B minor, progression is | I | III | VII | V9 of IV, IV | twice - this one is pretty clear to me. Now it's unclear what happens in the second part (pretty funny as I've created it smile.gif ) - what's the key there? Is it still B minor (or E dorian) or is it E minor? And what then will be secondary dominant chords there? (I had in mind modulation to E minor, so the progression will start as | I | V7 of VII | VII | , but then I don't know how to name A major chords afterwards - they don't sound like secondary dominants to me). Hope you can help me with this one (actually I'm sure you can laugh.gif) and thanks in advance! smile.gif

This post has been edited by Nimrandir: Dec 9 2009, 09:52 PM
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Emir Hot
post Dec 10 2009, 10:55 AM
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Cool stuff man. I would like to see that program that you've made smile.gif

This song is in B minor. I guess you want to borrow secondary dominant from B minor harmonic scale which is F#7 or F# phrygian dominant mode. Your chords and the bass line were wrong in that bar - BAR 4.
I fixed it the way I though it would be logical. I threw G dim7 and F# in that bar and changed the solo notes. Gdim7 is also related to that scale. That's coming from the last harmonic minor mode and it tends to resolve somewhere which is in this case resolving to F# and that F# is resolving back to B minor. I could have just put an F# without the dim7 and it would still work. Mute the solo and hear the chords only you will understand.

Check the fixed bar 4 in this file. I didn't fix the rest but there is the same problem on 1 more bar, I think bar 8. You can just copy my bar 4 in there on all tracks as they were all wrong in that bar.

In bar 13 you have C major which resolves to G major on bar 14. So those 2 bars are in the key of G major. IV and the I chord.

Bar 15 and 16 are in the key of D major but you are playing A major there (or A sus4) which is V chord or mixolydian. This was supposed to be resolved to D major after this but you got back to B minor in the end which is fine.

So you have 3 keys in this piece. Nice work btw smile.gif
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Nimrandir
post Dec 10 2009, 01:23 PM
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Thanks Emir!! I think I understood almost everything smile.gif

My logic behind D#dim7 in bar 4 was like this - B7 is a dominant in the key of E harmonic minor, and Em is the IV of original key of B minor. So, I've taken B7b9 chord and removed root to get D#dim7. Is this kind of thinking wrong or is it correct in some cases? (arghh, I know I should've started reading that book on harmony from the beginning and not instantly jump to the middle laugh.gif). I'm just trying to find ways of adding more diminished chords to get that "evil" classical sound biggrin.gif .

One more question remains : what about A chord in bar 12? Or should I change it to Am? (I think Am doesn't sound good in there).
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Emir Hot
post Dec 11 2009, 03:43 AM
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Why are you thinking of B7 dominant when your song is in B minor? F#7 is your secondary dominant in this case. You did all right apart from that one bar which I fixed.

The last A chord is ok. It's a bit unusual resolving to B minor but doesn't always have to be by the rules. You can sometimes make it your way, that's an art smile.gif A minor wouldn't work there, keep it this way smile.gif


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Nimrandir
post Dec 11 2009, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 11 2009, 04:43 AM) *
Why are you thinking of B7 dominant when your song is in B minor? F#7 is your secondary dominant in this case. You did all right apart from that one bar which I fixed.

Well, I'm thinking not of secondary dominant of the root, but secondary dominant of the fourth - of E, so that I can resolve this dominant to the original Em chord. I don't know, maybe there is a different name for this kind of thing? smile.gif Because from what I know this is hoe it is supposed to work. smile.gif It's like in wiki, maybe you know it under different name?
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Emir Hot
post Dec 11 2009, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Dec 11 2009, 12:14 PM) *
Well, I'm thinking not of secondary dominant of the root, but secondary dominant of the fourth - of E, so that I can resolve this dominant to the original Em chord. I don't know, maybe there is a different name for this kind of thing? smile.gif Because from what I know this is hoe it is supposed to work. smile.gif It's like in wiki, maybe you know it under different name?

That's ok if you're resolving to E minor but your song is in B minor. In the bar 4 there was no place for B7 as you were resolving to B minor. I am getting confused about your question smile.gif Also I am sure you can recognise if something just doesn't fit in the progression. Try it and see if it sounds right. Things doesn't always have to be like in theory but the theory helps you arrange things easier.


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Nimrandir
post Dec 12 2009, 04:24 AM
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Yes, I agree that the original chord sounded "off" and your variant with Gdim7 is much better. But I was kinda like creating a subprogression (with dominant - resolution) in the original progression. smile.gif

One more thing : I just wanted to ask what program do you use to create guitar pro files (weird question, huh laugh.gif)?
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Emir Hot
post Dec 12 2009, 04:53 AM
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QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Dec 12 2009, 03:24 AM) *
One more thing : I just wanted to ask what program do you use to create guitar pro files (weird question, huh laugh.gif)?

??? For Guitar Pro files I use Guitar Pro smile.gif


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Nimrandir
post Dec 12 2009, 12:54 PM
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Haha! Now I'm confused biggrin.gif You said that you don't have 5- and 7-tuples so I thought you are using some other software. smile.gif
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Emir Hot
post Dec 12 2009, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Dec 12 2009, 11:54 AM) *
Haha! Now I'm confused biggrin.gif You said that you don't have 5- and 7-tuples so I thought you are using some other software. smile.gif

that's true and very strange, my GP doesn't show these, only triplets. I will have to get some fresh instalation.


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Nimrandir
post Dec 13 2009, 07:26 PM
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Hi Emir!

I'm having some troubles with projects (have to finish all the documentation today), so I'm not sure if I will be able to record a take today sad.gif Is it OK if I do it tomorrow?
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Emir Hot
post Dec 14 2009, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Dec 13 2009, 06:26 PM) *
Hi Emir!

I'm having some troubles with projects (have to finish all the documentation today), so I'm not sure if I will be able to record a take today sad.gif Is it OK if I do it tomorrow?

Yes, hurry up smile.gif


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Nimrandir
post Dec 15 2009, 03:58 AM
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Hi Emir.

So.. after 2 hours of trying to get the CAGED assignment, I finally played it almost perfectly.. and found out that camera's batteries died halfway through the run. Then, additionally, I've accidentally deleted my sweeping video dry.gif . So, I upload audio, and will try to do a new video now. As you can hear, there are some timing problems, especially when changing shapes (transition to second to last shape in 3-string version is the hardest). I also found out that I almost can play 3-string sweeps at 180bpm, and that it feels quite easy, unlike 2-string.
Attached File  emir_mtp_2_2.mp3 ( 2.44MB ) Number of downloads: 63


Edit : so here it is :
Attached File  emir_mtp2_2wmv.wmv ( 7.96MB ) Number of downloads: 31

It's best I can get now, my eyes are already closing smile.gif (ofcourse, it's 5 am here). But I'll do proper videos tomorrow I promise smile.gif.

Edit 2 : just one more thing : you wrote in the other guys' threads
QUOTE
Over E7 and C#7 chords play only dom7 arpeggio, not the whole scale. Just 1, b3, 5 , b7.

Should there be major 3rd instead? smile.gif

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Emir Hot
post Dec 15 2009, 05:31 AM
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QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Dec 15 2009, 02:58 AM) *
Should there be major 3rd instead? smile.gif

Yes, sorry. I was typing b3 all day to some other guys about min7 arpeggio so I made mistake here smile.gif Good spot smile.gif

I'll look at this soon when I get home


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Nimrandir
post Dec 16 2009, 04:45 AM
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Hi Emir.

Ok.. I give up! I cannot play the caged assignment cleanly. In every take, one of 3 things happen : 1) I lose where I am in the chart (the further down I go, the more frequently it happens) 2) I get to the last row and become kinda like nervous (something like Maharzan described) 3) I lose concentretion and not think fast enough to form the next shape in my head. I don't remember the chord and position sequence (I've intended not to remember them), so I'm reading from the chart and playing at the same time. Playing and thinking ahead is something I've never done before, and it's very difficult for me. Needless to say, the timing is awfull. Here's an attempt:
Attached File  emir_mtp2_1.wmv ( 25.79MB ) Number of downloads: 46

I've messed up on the second to last shape sad.gif
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Emir Hot
post Dec 16 2009, 05:21 AM
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QUOTE (Nimrandir @ Dec 16 2009, 03:45 AM) *
Hi Emir.

Ok.. I give up! I cannot play the caged assignment cleanly. In every take, one of 3 things happen : 1) I lose where I am in the chart (the further down I go, the more frequently it happens) 2) I get to the last row and become kinda like nervous (something like Maharzan described) 3) I lose concentretion and not think fast enough to form the next shape in my head. I don't remember the chord and position sequence (I've intended not to remember them), so I'm reading from the chart and playing at the same time. Playing and thinking ahead is something I've never done before, and it's very difficult for me. Needless to say, the timing is awfull. Here's an attempt:
Attached File  emir_mtp2_1.wmv ( 25.79MB ) Number of downloads: 46

I've messed up on the second to last shape sad.gif

Well, everything you said is very wrong as this video shows some awesome stuff man smile.gif I know things don't happen over night and this stuff takes a bit of time, practice and patience. Please upload this to youtube and link it to the assignment thread. We need to show those threads to GMC supervisors as they need to see the assignments.

edit: if you follow other guys you probably know what's next. I'll post it in your thread as well

This post has been edited by Emir Hot: Dec 16 2009, 05:26 AM


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maharzan
post Dec 16 2009, 07:29 AM
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Sorry to jump in over the thread. I will share my experiences as you seem to have frustrated as I have been. But believe me you feel you have conquered the world once you get past it. I did. smile.gif

I have been playing for last 15 years (though not frequently) and guess what I don't really know much of scales / no theory. I never took lessons. I did know major scales a bit here and there and I could improvise after thinking for long time. But then when I got this excercise, it was pain. i had to virtually stop for 3 secs after each box mainly to find (guess) the start of the box (not necessarily root). It was too much, then I went back to the first assignment and trained my fingers to remember the positions on each position 1 through 5. I still struggle through it though. So, next, I memorized slightly A C D F G pattern and the 54321 chart (it was easy.. just count 54321 15432 21543 etc..). Then again, once I began this lesson I could only do it after stopping every 3 or 2 secs. Then I practiced (5 through 1) pass .. took me like 5 days. not full practice though.. Then as deadline approached.. I stopped work and practiced like 8 hours for 2 days.. stopping in between .. but I had guitar on my lap since I woke up till I slept. biggrin.gif Well not full time though.

So, after that I got like 3 passes .. Somehow the last and first pass was easy on me. 2, 3, 4 always gave me problems. And on the day of recording, I tried like a 100 times. I was up till midnight trying to record. I always messed up after going down 3 passes. Either one note went off, of got nervous and messed it up myself. I only got like 3 times full run with 1,2 errors before I finally landed on one take that was 'perfect' for me. If I try again, I am sure I will mess it up. biggrin.gif

Anyway, it does take a lot of practice. It took me almost 10 days as I submitted first assignment quite early. Emir said it should be doable in a month. So, take that into account and don't rush and expect it earlier. It does come to you slowly. Just don't give up. If you give up, it never will. smile.gif

I still not confident on chord positions and I have to think for sometime, find the chord and find the root. But good thing is after this exercise, I can play virtually all scales in all positions and my fingers move for themselves (Well not that fast but I am happy about it). I am hoping after this MTP session, I will know all the modes and can play all over the neck.

I have MTPed with Muris and believe me, it was brutal but I corrected what I was weak at and what I joined his MTP for. I basically increased speed on my playing, sync, vibrato, strength and a bit of timing (which still persists).

I hope you will practice more and get there eventually. smile.gif

Cool man.


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Emir Hot
post Dec 16 2009, 08:33 AM
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Read that Nimrandir? smile.gif

I don't know if maharzan saw your take but the take was perfect. Forget that little slip in the end, that doesn't tell me that you didn't learn it all.


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