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maharzan
post Dec 16 2009, 01:12 AM
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Thanks Emir, will look at the lesson.


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maharzan
post Dec 16 2009, 01:45 AM
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Ok, I will just keep discussions to this thread so we are not jumping back and forth. smile.gif

I had this in mind and I probably asked you before when doing the Neoclassical collaboration too. I just wanted to confirm that after looking at the lesson you referred.

So, basically, its just terminology that is making it confusing (at least for me). I am just playing the same scale (e.g. C Major Scale) all over its relative chords but only calling it a different mode because of the root. If I think this way, there is no confusion at all. smile.gif But for other chord combination (than that in the video) the story might be different. I think I got it. You basically look at the chord and if the chord has minor 3rd (as an example) you play phrygian.. but if the chord is minor with major third, you play phrygian dominant. Might not be always true but just giving an example as I am understanding. smile.gif

BINGO ?!!

If you play 1, 3, 5, 7 position in the chord separately, its an arpeggio!!!!......... Did I get that right?


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Emir Hot
post Dec 16 2009, 02:58 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Dec 16 2009, 12:45 AM) *
If you play 1, 3, 5, 7 position in the chord separately, its an arpeggio!!!!......... Did I get that right?

yes, it's a maj7 arpeggio. When you stack 3rd on top of 3rd. If you do that with major scale you will get 1, 3, 5, 7

If you have maj3rd and normal(maj)7th then you call this maj7

In order to call something dominant, you need both maj3rd and b7th

Phrygian dominant is the same as phrigyan but with maj3rd respectively. This one comes from different mode family called harmonic minor scale. that scale is the root scale (like ionian in normal major scale modes) and you count modes from there. Phrigyan dominant is the 5th mode of harmonic minor scale.



This is the list that can help you for now:

Ionian - major mode (because has maj3rd)
Dorian - minor mode (because has min3rd)
Phrygian - minor mode
Lydian - major mode
Mixolydian - major mode
Aeolian - minor mode
Locrian - minor mode (exception)

The last one is just a passing one (tends to resolve somewhere), you will never play that over any other chord apart from m7b5.
---------------------------------------------


Now other mode families smile.gif

Their names are as follows: (but you might find other names as well)

HARMONIC MINOR SCALE (this is a must in neoclassical style)

1) Aeolian #7 (Harmonic Minor) - A B C D E F G# - AmMaj7 / you can also add (b6)
2) Locrian #6 - B C D E F G# A - Bm7b5
3) Ionian #5 - C D E F G# A B - Cmaj7#5
4) Dorian #4 - D E F G# A B C - Dm7 / you can also add (#11)
5) Phrygian #3 (Phrygian Dominant) - E F G# A B C D - E7 / you can also add (b9,b13)
6) Lydian #2 - F G# A B C D E - Fmaj7 / you can also add (#9)
7) Mixolydian #1 (Diminished) - G# A B C D E F - G#dim7

the last one people also call - Altered Dominant bb7

MELODIC MINOR SCALE (this one is used in jazz non-stop)

1. Ionian b3 (Melodic Minor)
2. Dorian b2
3. Phrygian "b1" (Lydian #5)
4. Lydian b7
5. Mixolydian b6
6. Aeolian b5
7. Locrian b4 (Superlocrian)

This post has been edited by Emir Hot: Dec 16 2009, 04:20 AM


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maharzan
post Dec 16 2009, 04:15 AM
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Thank for this Emir. This is a great resource. I will recall other scales later as we move on. It is too much to take at this time, you know. I will focus on the major modes first and then come back to it later. smile.gif


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Emir Hot
post Dec 16 2009, 04:17 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Dec 16 2009, 03:15 AM) *
Thank for this Emir. This is a great resource. I will recall other scales later as we move on. It is too much to take at this time, you know. I will focus on the major modes first and then come back to it later. smile.gif

Yes that's a good decision smile.gif I have just replied about it on the other thread smile.gif


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maharzan
post Dec 18 2009, 05:09 AM
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Hi Emir,

I just wanted to recall what I have learnt about modes and practicing it for some days now. I am taking a short cut maybe as you also suggested this is the easiest way to learn. smile.gif Correct me if I am wrong.

First, There are 7 modes of which last one Locrian is rarely used. I am not caring about that really but if needed I can find it out.

Ionian (major), Dorian (minor), Phrygian (minor), Lydian(major), Mixolydian (major), Aeolian (minor), Locrian (3b7b or something)

Anyway, these are only variations of Major scale and just not to be confused by the use of terms, I am remembering it as YOU JUST PLAY THE MAJOR SCALE but remember the root note when the chord changes. If there are other chords in the song, you have to rethink which modes go in well.. such as Phrygian Dominant (That comes in later excercises I guess).

So for example, If the chord progression is A, D, E, you are simply playing A Ionian scale all over the song but when the chord changes, your root note (most of the time) should be the root of the chord and then when saying in terms of modes, you say... play A Ionian, D Lydian and E Mixolydian scale. right?

For all minor chords, I find that you are simply playing the scale of relative major (if that is what is called) of that chord. I mean if you are playing Am chord, you are simply playing C Major scale, Dm -> F scale and so on.

Hope I am getting it right here. smile.gif


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Emir Hot
post Dec 18 2009, 05:35 AM
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Yes you are right.

In your example A, D, E you are playing A major scale. However when the chord goes to D then you think of your D root and memorize that D shape. That's your D lydian and your phrasing should circulate around that note, not around A note. We'll go more into this next month when I introduce some other stuff. First we need to sort this out and learn some arpeggios.

QUOTE
Locrian (3b7b or something)

This is m7b5. If you harmonize this mode into 4 note chord (stack 3rd on top of 3rd) you will get m7b5 chord.

Ionian - maj7
Dorian - m7
Phrygian - m7
Lydian - maj7
Mixolydian - dom7 (we only say 7)
Aeolian - m7
Locrian - m7b5


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maharzan
post Dec 18 2009, 07:43 AM
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Cool.. can't wait to practice more of this.

Does that last bit mean the mode's respective chords ?


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Emir Hot
post Dec 18 2009, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Dec 18 2009, 06:43 AM) *
Cool.. can't wait to practice more of this.

Does that last bit mean the mode's respective chords ?

Yes. Each mode harmonized into 4 note chord will give you those chords. Try it yourself. Take Dorian for example and play first, third, fifth and seventh note in order. You will get m7 chord and that's also m7 arpeggio.

That's the same as when I say "stack 3rd on top of 3rd" but here I am talking about intervals not notes in order.

Either way you will get the same thing.


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maharzan
post Dec 18 2009, 10:42 AM
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cool. smile.gif Thanks Emir.


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maharzan
post Dec 19 2009, 03:25 AM
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I have been doing quite some research trying to find an easy way to remember all the modes. Have watched quite many vids on youtube but this morning, I just found the best lesson so far. I have been lingering between remembering it relative to key or trying to remember by how many sharps/flats that mode has. But I think I will just follow the easy peasy way now.

I heard about Vinnie Moore not so long ago but this guy seems quite some fun. smile.gif If anybody is struggling like me, perhaps this video might help.



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Emir Hot
post Dec 19 2009, 05:30 AM
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smile.gif He is my friend and one of my guitar heroes. Vinnie is awesome.

However I remember this video like 15 years ago and I tried to learn it this way. It didn't work for me. If you want to try it this way then of course you can have a go. I'd be more than happy to see you nail these modes like he does. I have a different approach for modes but in the end we all end up with the same result smile.gif


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maharzan
post Dec 19 2009, 07:39 AM
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Ah great.. smile.gif Perhaps I will have to find my own way to remember these modes.. lets see. I will keep on experimenting. I just want to be able to play on the neck correctly on a backing track.. on the fly improvisation (no matter the melody part). But that is definitely a long way to go and a lot of practice.


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Emir Hot
post Dec 19 2009, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Dec 19 2009, 06:39 AM) *
Ah great.. smile.gif Perhaps I will have to find my own way to remember these modes.. lets see. I will keep on experimenting. I just want to be able to play on the neck correctly on a backing track.. on the fly improvisation (no matter the melody part). But that is definitely a long way to go and a lot of practice.

Even Vinnie is still learning new stuff and that's an endless process. His every new album has different modal approach and licks. That's very noticable in his progress.


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Emir Hot
post Dec 27 2009, 05:36 AM
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Thanks for the PM. It's all good now. Your chord notes are wrong but don't worry about that, I didn't ask for it anyway smile.gif The arpeggio notes are all ok.


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maharzan
post Dec 27 2009, 05:58 AM
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Kewl.. smile.gif will start working on it then.

Also, just wanted to let you know that I will be off on vacation between Jan 20 - Feb 1. So, hopefully, I will lag behind by 2 assignments. Hopefully, after I am back I will finish up these 2 assignments and carry on with the MTP. Will that be okay?

Just wanted to ask you another question.. Does modes also have arpeggios ? You talked about Dorian.. so wanted to confirm if Dorian also has arpeggios like we just did ?

I have been dreaming of scales nowadays (twice now).. I was actually trying our Dorian scales and still confused between like should I say I will just play C Major with starting at (root) D (D Dorian) or play D minor scale with #4.. ? haha.

This post has been edited by maharzan: Dec 27 2009, 05:58 AM


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Emir Hot
post Dec 27 2009, 06:16 AM
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Yes they have arpegios. The same ones as their related chords. Actually the chords produced by a harmonized mode are arpeggios. Arpeggio is nothing more than a chord but when you play notes separately (not at the same time).

Major scale has maj7 arpegio (if we're talking about 4 notes). If you take only 3 notes you will get pure major triad arpeggio.

Dorian has min7 arpeggio, the same as its corresponding chord - etc... You already know all of them except Locrian (m7b5).

Now there are extentions that you can use. For example if you add 9th in your maj7 you get maj9 arpeggio but when you have 5 or more notes people usually start calling it scales. 5 notes is a pentatonic scale of some kind. It can be pure major or minor, hybrid etc...

We can try to speed up things in January so you get to do the whole thing.


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maharzan
post Dec 27 2009, 06:22 AM
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Okay.. great to know that. I am beginning understand all these theory terms. smile.gif Thanks Emir.

Sure, I can try that as well (speeding things up) but that might be really hard to do, you know. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by maharzan: Dec 27 2009, 06:23 AM


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maharzan
post Dec 29 2009, 06:06 AM
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Hmm... I tried recording the REC take today but its not 100% right. I m also not getting that clean sound (note to note separation) and then at least timing issue in one place. I will try another session tonight and hopefully post it.

What was the distortion level on your setting in the Alternate Triplet Feeling Lesson? I have it 6-7 but its it feels like too much distortion (although I am palm muting). I will play around with the setting.


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Emir Hot
post Dec 29 2009, 06:16 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Dec 29 2009, 05:06 AM) *
Hmm... I tried recording the REC take today but its not 100% right. I m also not getting that clean sound (note to note separation) and then at least timing issue in one place. I will try another session tonight and hopefully post it.

What was the distortion level on your setting in the Alternate Triplet Feeling Lesson? I have it 6-7 but its it feels like too much distortion (although I am palm muting). I will play around with the setting.

It's about 6-7 but that depends on which amp/distortion you use. I use plugin Amplitube 2. My settings won't help you. You just have to feel what sounds right and go for it.


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