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> Keilnoth's December Mtp Thread, Weekly assignments and uploads here
Keilnoth
post Dec 20 2009, 09:01 PM
Post #21


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Hi Pedja, thanks for the next assignments ! smile.gif

I am currently working on the triads. But I am cutting in on the practice to answer the 4th assignment questions below :

QUOTE
Example 1

// C / B min / A min / B min / C / B min / A min / G //


I think this is on G Major. With Amin, Bmin and C, C is obviously the IV so G is I. With A min it could have been a C Major as well but in that case B would have been a diminished chord, not minor.

// G Maj / A min / Bmin / C Maj / D Maj / E min / F# dim / G Maj //

QUOTE
Example 2

// D min / G min / C / A min / D min / Bb / C / A min //


This is probably on a F Major. We have a G min and A min so G min is probably the II and A min the III.

Plus, I learned the Circle of Fifth a few weeks ago and if we have a Bb and the A is not flat or sharp then it could be a F or C but if it had been a C then G would have been Major and not minor. Not sure the latest reflection is correct tho. wink.gif

// F Maj / G min / A min / Bb Maj / C Maj / D min / E dim / F Maj //

QUOTE
Example 3

// F min7 / Eb / Bb7 / Bb7 / F min7 / C min / Eb / Bb7 / Bb7 //


This is probably on Eb Major. We have a Bb 7 so it's probably the V and consequently the key is Eb.

// Eb Maj7 / F min7 / G min7 / Ab Maj 7 / Bb 7 / C min7 / D min7b5 / Eb Maj7 //


QUOTE
Example 4

// Eb maj7 / D min7 / G min7 / F7 / Eb maj7 / C min7 / Bb maj7 / F7 //


Here, we have F7 which is probably the V so it's probably a Bb Major key.

// Bb Maj 7 / C min7 / D min7 / Eb Maj7 / F7 / G min7 / A min7b5 / Bb Maj7 //


QUOTE
Example 5

// D maj7 / B min7 / E min7 / A7 / D maj7 / F# min7 / G maj7 / A7 //


Once again, I start from the A7 which is probably the V and go down to D Maj7 as the key.

// D Maj7 / E min7 / F# min7 / G Maj7 / A7 / B min7 / C# min7b5 / D Maj7 //

I still have a question about Cadences. I still can't understand why, in the case of your example (C Major) we talk about D Dorian as I IV and I IImin.

First, why don't we write that I min IV and I min II min ? smile.gif

Second, why do we talk about I and not II as we still have C as a reference ? I find that pretty confusing and not very logical. I probably miss something here...



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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 21 2009, 01:37 AM
Post #22


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QUOTE (Keilnoth @ Dec 20 2009, 09:01 PM) *
Hi Pedja, thanks for the next assignments ! smile.gif

I am currently working on the triads. But I am cutting in on the practice to answer the 4th assignment questions below :



I think this is on G Major. With Amin, Bmin and C, C is obviously the IV so G is I. With A min it could have been a C Major as well but in that case B would have been a diminished chord, not minor.

// G Maj / A min / Bmin / C Maj / D Maj / E min / F# dim / G Maj //



This is probably on a F Major. We have a G min and A min so G min is probably the II and A min the III.

Plus, I learned the Circle of Fifth a few weeks ago and if we have a Bb and the A is not flat or sharp then it could be a F or C but if it had been a C then G would have been Major and not minor. Not sure the latest reflection is correct tho. wink.gif

// F Maj / G min / A min / Bb Maj / C Maj / D min / E dim / F Maj //



This is probably on Eb Major. We have a Bb 7 so it's probably the V and consequently the key is Eb.

// Eb Maj7 / F min7 / G min7 / Ab Maj 7 / Bb 7 / C min7 / D min7b5 / Eb Maj7 //




Here, we have F7 which is probably the V so it's probably a Bb Major key.

// Bb Maj 7 / C min7 / D min7 / Eb Maj7 / F7 / G min7 / A min7b5 / Bb Maj7 //




Once again, I start from the A7 which is probably the V and go down to D Maj7 as the key.

// D Maj7 / E min7 / F# min7 / G Maj7 / A7 / B min7 / C# min7b5 / D Maj7 //



Let me answer first your questions and then I will let you know what more I expect from you smile.gif
I still have a question about Cadences. I still can't understand why, in the case of your example (C Major) we talk about D Dorian as I IV and I IImin.

First, why don't we write that I min IV and I min II min ? smile.gif

Second, why do we talk about I and not II as we still have C as a reference ? I find that pretty confusing and not very logical. I probably miss something here...

Every mode is a scale as it self. C major scale = C Ionian. If we talk about C Ionian we know the harmony the way we learned it so far. Now, as soon as we look at C major scale starting from D note, and play it D to D , we now get a totally new mode/scale. This mode is called Dorian mode. It has totally different order of scale degrees and interval formula from Ionian/Major scale. This is why we treat each mode independently. This is why now in D Dorian D is I min , it is not II min! II min in D Dorian is what? It is E minor! Because 2nd scale degree from D note (whole step away = major 2nd) is E note which happens to be minor chord as well. This is why IV from D is G note! IV scale degree by definition must be perfect 4th away from the root of the scale/mode. D is root , perfect 4th away is G. Since we derived D Dorian from C major scale, we know that in C major G is V and is also G7 (dominant 7th chord). That same thing transfers now in D Dorian, G is G major or G7! Hope that makes sense now. Let me know if you have more questions.

Regarding assignment, you did all great except you didn't analyze the modes chord progressions were in. You found out original major scale they came from but the essential thing is to figure out MODAL HARMONY here. So Example 1, let me help you a bit so that you can do the rest. You found out chords in that progression come from G major scale. This is 100% true, no mistake there. Now, what is the first chord in the actual chord progression? It is C or C maj7 chord right? What is C in relation to G major scale? Is a III II I, what is it? It is a perfect 4th away from G so it is IV! Now check this out smile.gif What kind of mode do we have on IV scale degree in any major scale? IT IS LYDIAN!!! So this chord progression is in C LYDIAN not G IONIAN. Why ? Because our first chord in the chord progression is C something, and that C something is now a scale/mode by itself. This is why we need to analyze scale degrees all in relationship with C LYDIAN. So if we have C maj7, that is obviously Imaj7. What about B min7? Well that is major7th away from root so we now would write VII min7. What about A min7 ? That is major 6th away from root so we would write VI min7. I hope you get the idea now. I want you to do this in all the examples! Extra hint : the last example might already be correct , but then again I might be wrong smile.gif


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Keilnoth
post Dec 27 2009, 08:33 PM
Post #23


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QUOTE
Example 1

// C / B min / A min / B min / C / B min / A min / G //


Sooo, as this is in GMaj. C is IV so it's Lydian. We have a progression as :

// Imaj7 / VIImin7 / VImin7 / VIImin7 / Imaj7 / VIImin7 / VImin7 / Vmaj7 //


QUOTE
Example 2

// D min / G min / C / A min / D min / Bb / C / A min //


This is on F Major scale. D is IV so it's Aeolian.

// Imin7 / IVmin7 / II7 / Vmin7 / Imin7 / bVImaj7 / IImin7 / Vmin7 //


QUOTE
Example 3

// F min7 / Eb / Bb7 / Bb7 / F min7 / C min / Eb / Bb7 / Bb7 //


This is Eb major. F is II so it's Dorian.

// Imin7 / bVIImaj7 / bIV7 / Imin7 / Vmin7 / bVIImin7 / bIV7 / bIV7 //

QUOTE
Example 4

// Eb maj7 / D min7 / G min7 / F7 / Eb maj7 / C min7 / Bb maj7 / F7 //


This is Bb major so Eb is IV so it's Lydian.

// bImaj7 / VIImin7 / IIImin7 / II7 / bImaj7 / VImin7 / bVmaj7 / II7 //

QUOTE
Example 5

// D maj7 / B min7 / E min7 / A7 / D maj7 / F# min7 / G maj7 / A7 //


This is D major scale. D is I so it's Ionian.

// Imaj7 / VImin7 / IImin7 / V7 / Imaj7 / #IIImin7 / IVmaj7 / V7 //



Now, if I refer to the post about cadences I cannot find all those progressions in the cadences list. Any reason for that that could help me understand all this a bit further ? smile.gif

Next step is to record my REC and post it. I practiced a lot. I will try to do that soon.


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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 29 2009, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE (Keilnoth @ Dec 27 2009, 08:33 PM) *
Sooo, as this is in GMaj. C is IV so it's Lydian. We have a progression as :

// Imaj7 / VIImin7 / VImin7 / VIImin7 / Imaj7 / VIImin7 / VImin7 / Vmaj7 //




This is on F Major scale. D is IV so it's Aeolian.

// Imin7 / IVmin7 / II7 / Vmin7 / Imin7 / bVImaj7 / IImin7 / Vmin7 //




This is Eb major. F is II so it's Dorian.

// Imin7 / bVIImaj7 / bIV7 / Imin7 / Vmin7 / bVIImin7 / bIV7 / bIV7 //



This is Bb major so Eb is IV so it's Lydian.

// bImaj7 / VIImin7 / IIImin7 / II7 / bImaj7 / VImin7 / bVmaj7 / II7 //



This is D major scale. D is I so it's Ionian.

// Imaj7 / VImin7 / IImin7 / V7 / Imaj7 / #IIImin7 / IVmaj7 / V7 //



Now, if I refer to the post about cadences I cannot find all those progressions in the cadences list. Any reason for that that could help me understand all this a bit further ? smile.gif

Next step is to record my REC and post it. I practiced a lot. I will try to do that soon.


Keil check places where you put bI, bIV and #III. All those are not correct, try to correct them soon! Look forward to your triads lesson take!

You will see in cadences thread how I listed cadence for each mode in major scale. For Dorian that could be I min to II min or I min to IV7. That could mean for example in key of C major, we got D dorian and chords would be in D Dorian D min to E min ( I min to II min) and D min to G7 (I min to IV7). This is just short cadence, when you put it all together like I did in examples above, it becomes hidden and more musical to extent. Hope that makes more sense smile.gif


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Keilnoth
post Jan 2 2010, 03:57 PM
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Hi Pedja,

Sorry but with Christmas, New Year, friends, family, I was unable to record my video. It takes me a lot of time to record. I will try to do it now... smile.gif



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My Guitars: Fender Stratocaster Billy Corgan Signature, Ibanez RG270
My Amp: Peavey Bandit 112
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My Wishlist: New bridge + Pickups for my Ibanez, EHX POG2, EHX Cathedral / Holy Grail
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Keilnoth
post Jan 2 2010, 05:51 PM
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Here we goooo :



The REC link : https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=32970

This post has been edited by Keilnoth: Jan 2 2010, 05:58 PM


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Pedja Simovic
post Jan 2 2010, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Keilnoth @ Jan 2 2010, 05:51 PM) *


Fantastic work Keil!

I will give you 10 for this one just make sure you include grading pool in your MTP thread !


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Pedja Simovic
post Jan 2 2010, 07:02 PM
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Keil since you completed all assignments for December successfully, I am closing this thread now. New one for January will be opened soon with your first assignment - stay tuned!



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