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> The Murder Of Music, Think Before You Act
intemperateContr...
post Dec 22 2009, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE (JamesT @ Dec 22 2009, 02:54 PM) *
At least for one, I can say that my entire music collection was purchased with my own hard earned cash, including some of the albums from the instructors here at GMC. For me, fifteen bucks isn't all that much money if not more than to say thank you to the artist who worked so hard to produce it. My music collection is not exactly huge, but for me it's fun and good to know that I bought each song/album for a reason whether it be because I know or have associations with the artist, or just because I liked one of the songs that I heard on the radio. Each item in my collection carries with it a memory of some sort. I don't think you can get that sort of thing by downloading in mega proportions.

The digital age has surely changed a lot with regard to how any kind of media is distributed and sold. Bon Jovi has a good song called "Last Man Standing" that talks about that somewhat. "The last man standing. Step right up, here's your new career. The last man standing, come and see, hear, feel ... the real thing." Actually, I think he's talking more about something that the digital age can never replace and that is live music.

So, from me to you, I would make a request that you keep on playing. Play it live. No-one can take that away from you. Live music is another part of music that's getting murdered by the digital age too. All in all, I've got to agree that for commercial success in music, we've got to come up with a new business model that embraces the ease with which media can be distributed. I can't say that I have any answers though. Maybe I could write a song about it or something. smile.gif



Cool guy. I would like to hear that song... cool.gif
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lcsdds
post Dec 22 2009, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (intemperateControl @ Dec 22 2009, 09:49 PM) *
Anything worth while, like playing guitar for instance, may take some time.
It appears to me, trying to appeal to the conscience of each and every potential
buyer in the entire world not to accept illegal downloads at a discount or even
for free warrants a much bigger challenge than what I suggested. Like the death
of music. If you eliminate the bootlegger, the drinker has no place to go other
than to a legitimate source. But unlike bootlegging or drug dealing, everything
indexed on the internet is stored as data and traceable - you can run but you
can't hide. Take a few down and that fear may create a domino effect. There is
strength in numbers, hence, the musicians union I mentioned earlier. How many
pirate sites can you find in one day? These are only suggestions.

I read an article where a music company is attempting to sue all the people (tens
of thousands) who downloaded music from a confiscated pirate site. Unfortunately,
I did not bookmark that article and can't find it now. Point being, even those
individuals who downloaded the music can be traced (via IP). There is also an
IP Look-up database: http://ip-lookup.net But, this one usually only yields the
users internet provider, through whom you might then obtain more information
on the individual by lawful means. Anyway, when the going gets tough...
Thanks for responding. smile.gif

I definitely see where you are coming from and agree with it. I just meant that for ONE person like Emir to do this might not work. A large corporation would have the means and manpower to do that much more easily than just one person. It's sad that people think it's OK to steal.....even if they don't think that is what they are doing....... sad.gif
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jstcrsn
post Dec 22 2009, 11:04 PM
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ALL THIS TALK ABOUT stealing or buying music and i can't even give it away
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=32726

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Dec 22 2009, 11:08 PM
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intemperateContr...
post Dec 22 2009, 11:50 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Dec 22 2009, 03:45 PM) *
I definitely see where you are coming from and agree with it. I just meant that for ONE person like Emir to do this might not work. A large corporation would have the means and manpower to do that much more easily than just one person. It's sad that people think it's OK to steal.....even if they don't think that is what they are doing....... sad.gif


Yea, for Emir the task might prove a bit tedious - and I agree it is sad.
On the other hand, who better than Emir (or his former label) to know which
stores or web-sites do have the right to sell his album? If I had a list of
them, then I would know that any other store or web-site attempting to sell
or distribute his album must be pirating. But, it's Emir and/ or his label
that must take any necessary lawful action. A union type label of some sort
should be used on all legitimate selling albums, electronic (embedded in the
coding) or otherwise visible along with traceable bar-codes on CDs, or something.
As I understand, Emir Hot has lost a-lot of money during his career due to pirating.
Anyhow, good observation. Hang loose, man. smile.gif

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 22 2009, 04:04 PM) *
ALL THIS TALK ABOUT stealing or buying music and i can't even give it away
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=32726


Hey, it looks like you have gotten 38 downloads on this site alone in the
last 2 DAYS - not bad for being relatively outdated and unknown. Maybe
you guys should get together and try again. Imagine what it might do on
10,000 websites if you created something new and became relatively
better known. Just an observation. Gotta go now - catch everyone later. smile.gif

Ps.

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Emir Hot
post Dec 23 2009, 03:53 AM
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This is the copy from Lion Music website about signing new artists. I hope this explains enough:

Dear Musicians,

We are NOT able to sign more artists. No demos or masters you send us will be considered for release. We will NOT listen to any mp3 files or check out your websites and we will NOT respond to questions regarding releasing your album.

The illegal file sharing on the net is killing independent music. We are sorry about this situation but we are sure you are aware of what is going on. Our demo policy will not change before our politicians have stopped the P2P sites. Illegal file sharing is not just about stealing from rich major companies. It is about killing independent music and making it impossible for many great musicians to have a chance to release albums and have a musical career even as a part time job.

Some people seem to think that file sharing does not affect record sales but these people don't know what they are talking about. All musical genres and all kinds of artists are suffering and so will the genuine music fans in the end when the music they love will no longer be available in any guise - free or not. Next time you consider downloading an album for free or adding new torrents please think of the impact you are having on the artists - would you like it if we came into your home and stole your pay check?

To give you some facts and figures on how this is affecting just some of Lion Music releases please view below - stats taken from just 1 non leading bit torrent site (we are not going to give free advertising to which site it is):


*
Angel Of Eden - The End Of Never : 9276 illegal downloads and rising!

Sphere Of Souls - From The Ashes : 6445 illegal downloads and rising!

Sun Caged - Sun Caged : 6383 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Mercy Falls : 6160 illegal downloads and rising!

Twinspirits - The Music That Will Heal The World: 5059 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Waiting In The Wings : 4942 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Sun Caged - Artemisia: 4920 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Become : 2757 illegal downloads and rising!

Satyrian - Eternitas : 2688 illegal downloads and rising!

Marco Sfogli - There's Hope : 2653 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Tears Of Anger - In The Shadows : 2504 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Section A - Parallel Lives : 1926 illegal downloads and rising!

Venturia - Hybrid : 1800 illegal downloads and rising

Joe Stump - Virtuostic Vendetta : 1621 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Tomorrow's Eve - Mirror Of Creation II The Genesis : 1545 illegal downloads and rising!

Astra - From Within : 1400 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Mind's Eye - Walking on H20 : 1345 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Vitalij Kuprij - Glacial Inferno - 1339 illegal downloads and rising



Someone said that we should trace IP addresses of websites that are sharing download links. There are thousands of them, that's just not possible. Just type "Emir Hot" in Google. 70% of the search results are torrent sites smile.gif Not to mention some better known musicians. I am actually nobody comparing to other good metal bands.

I didn't expect that this topic will have most of "Emir Hot" examples even though I am very affected with this subject. This was about Borislav Mitic who made a statement on Lion Music website and I wanted to hear oppinions on that story.


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lcsdds
post Dec 23 2009, 06:13 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 23 2009, 03:53 AM) *
This is the copy from Lion Music website about signing new artists. I hope this explains enough:

Dear Musicians,

We are NOT able to sign more artists. No demos or masters you send us will be considered for release. We will NOT listen to any mp3 files or check out your websites and we will NOT respond to questions regarding releasing your album.

The illegal file sharing on the net is killing independent music. We are sorry about this situation but we are sure you are aware of what is going on. Our demo policy will not change before our politicians have stopped the P2P sites. Illegal file sharing is not just about stealing from rich major companies. It is about killing independent music and making it impossible for many great musicians to have a chance to release albums and have a musical career even as a part time job.

Some people seem to think that file sharing does not affect record sales but these people don't know what they are talking about. All musical genres and all kinds of artists are suffering and so will the genuine music fans in the end when the music they love will no longer be available in any guise - free or not. Next time you consider downloading an album for free or adding new torrents please think of the impact you are having on the artists - would you like it if we came into your home and stole your pay check?

To give you some facts and figures on how this is affecting just some of Lion Music releases please view below - stats taken from just 1 non leading bit torrent site (we are not going to give free advertising to which site it is):


*
Angel Of Eden - The End Of Never : 9276 illegal downloads and rising!

Sphere Of Souls - From The Ashes : 6445 illegal downloads and rising!

Sun Caged - Sun Caged : 6383 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Mercy Falls : 6160 illegal downloads and rising!

Twinspirits - The Music That Will Heal The World: 5059 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Waiting In The Wings : 4942 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Sun Caged - Artemisia: 4920 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Become : 2757 illegal downloads and rising!

Satyrian - Eternitas : 2688 illegal downloads and rising!

Marco Sfogli - There's Hope : 2653 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Tears Of Anger - In The Shadows : 2504 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Section A - Parallel Lives : 1926 illegal downloads and rising!

Venturia - Hybrid : 1800 illegal downloads and rising

Joe Stump - Virtuostic Vendetta : 1621 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Tomorrow's Eve - Mirror Of Creation II The Genesis : 1545 illegal downloads and rising!

Astra - From Within : 1400 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Mind's Eye - Walking on H20 : 1345 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Vitalij Kuprij - Glacial Inferno - 1339 illegal downloads and rising



Someone said that we should trace IP addresses of websites that are sharing download links. There are thousands of them, that's just not possible. Just type "Emir Hot" in Google. 70% of the search results are torrent sites smile.gif Not to mention some better known musicians. I am actually nobody comparing to other good metal bands.

I didn't expect that this topic will have most of "Emir Hot" examples even though I am very affected with this subject. This was about Borislav Mitic who made a statement on Lion Music website and I wanted to hear oppinions on that story.


WOW!!! That is really sad news....but totally understandable. You can't give away your product....or in this case have it stolen from you and expect to stay in business for very long. This does not bode well for the future of independent and more specifically instrumental guitar music.....which I for one LOVE!!

Emir.....what do you see happening? Do you see instrumental guitar music basically just dissapearing? I mean how could anybody be expected to put so much time, effort and money into something that they will not get any kind of a return on their investment on?? Unless you have a lot of money already I don't see how this would be possible. So where does that leave independent music?.........just where the title of the thread says......MURDERED.......by the very people that supposedly loved it. sad.gif

This post has been edited by lcsdds: Dec 23 2009, 06:24 AM
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intemperateContr...
post Dec 23 2009, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 22 2009, 08:53 PM) *
This is the copy from Lion Music website about signing new artists. I hope this explains enough:

Dear Musicians,

We are NOT able to sign more artists. No demos or masters you send us will be considered for release. We will NOT listen to any mp3 files or check out your websites and we will NOT respond to questions regarding releasing your album.

The illegal file sharing on the net is killing independent music. We are sorry about this situation but we are sure you are aware of what is going on. Our demo policy will not change before our politicians have stopped the P2P sites. Illegal file sharing is not just about stealing from rich major companies. It is about killing independent music and making it impossible for many great musicians to have a chance to release albums and have a musical career even as a part time job.

Some people seem to think that file sharing does not affect record sales but these people don't know what they are talking about. All musical genres and all kinds of artists are suffering and so will the genuine music fans in the end when the music they love will no longer be available in any guise - free or not. Next time you consider downloading an album for free or adding new torrents please think of the impact you are having on the artists - would you like it if we came into your home and stole your pay check?

To give you some facts and figures on how this is affecting just some of Lion Music releases please view below - stats taken from just 1 non leading bit torrent site (we are not going to give free advertising to which site it is):


*
Angel Of Eden - The End Of Never : 9276 illegal downloads and rising!

Sphere Of Souls - From The Ashes : 6445 illegal downloads and rising!

Sun Caged - Sun Caged : 6383 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Mercy Falls : 6160 illegal downloads and rising!

Twinspirits - The Music That Will Heal The World: 5059 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Waiting In The Wings : 4942 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Sun Caged - Artemisia: 4920 illegal downloads and rising!

Seventh Wonder - Become : 2757 illegal downloads and rising!

Satyrian - Eternitas : 2688 illegal downloads and rising!

Marco Sfogli - There's Hope : 2653 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Tears Of Anger - In The Shadows : 2504 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Section A - Parallel Lives : 1926 illegal downloads and rising!

Venturia - Hybrid : 1800 illegal downloads and rising

Joe Stump - Virtuostic Vendetta : 1621 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Tomorrow's Eve - Mirror Of Creation II The Genesis : 1545 illegal downloads and rising!

Astra - From Within : 1400 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Mind's Eye - Walking on H20 : 1345 illegal downloads and rising!
*
Vitalij Kuprij - Glacial Inferno - 1339 illegal downloads and rising



Someone said that we should trace IP addresses of websites that are sharing download links. There are thousands of them, that's just not possible. Just type "Emir Hot" in Google. 70% of the search results are torrent sites smile.gif Not to mention some better known musicians. I am actually nobody comparing to other good metal bands.

I didn't expect that this topic will have most of "Emir Hot" examples even though I am very affected with this subject. This was about Borislav Mitic who made a statement on Lion Music website and I wanted to hear oppinions on that story.


True, we ourselves should not try and track IP's, but they can be stored
on the web servers that host those pirate sites etc. - and even they can't
keep up with them all. Isolating the problem per site and reporting it
accordingly through the proper channels while gathering evidence before
the fact, etc. Blagh, blagh, blagh...

My opinion on the article is that it is well written, emotional, and
compares intellectual copyright theft with physical theft to get the
point across. It makes me feel sorry for the artists who dedicate
their lives to producing music for a living. It makes me angry at
those who take advantage of them unfairly. It made me want to act.
Either way, doing nothing will accomplish nothing. I hope it all changes
for the better. Guess I'm out - all the best to you man. mellow.gif
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Staffy
post Dec 23 2009, 09:41 AM
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Hmm, it's really some sad figures - but it doesn't tell if the people who downloaded the music ever listened to it or liked it. Neither i'ts not comparable with anything, eg. how many copies had been made CD to CD or CD to tape if the internet wasn't around? Violating the copyright has always been a problem, with the tapes there was a special tax on them from the beginning what I can remember. Maybe that's the way to go - in Sweden we pay a license for the TV, so why not for the internet? But then we would be violating the free speech....

We had a trial here against one citizen who illegaly spread music/movies on P2P-sites and he was sentenced to some 100.000 € in fines, but it turned out as a joke since he was supposed to ask for a new trial and the record/movie companys then paid all his fines if he didn't..... So there wasn't that much fuzz about it.

I don't think there is much to do in legal terms to stop pirating - via the internet, by copying or whatever. The record companys/artists must simply find new ways to distribute the music to the audience and get paid. Like the mobile market works for instance, if You sign up for a 12-month period with a mobile operator - You get three months of free music. The phone company then pays the rights owners and everyone is happy. Get the point? Selling CD's is a market that will be gone in the future in my belief, and music will be more like other products like food, clothes etc. Also I think it's the record company's responsebility to take care of that the artists will get paid - in contrast to what they do now, they just sitting there and wining over all the money THEY looses instead of acting and doing something creative. Just my thoughts....

//Staffay


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blindwillie
post Jan 9 2010, 03:32 PM
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A band making another statement
Homepage: http://www.rednexmusic.com/
Official release page: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5263628/Re...-_2010_-_TPB003


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Emir Hot
post Jan 9 2010, 04:18 PM
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Well good luck to them smile.gif They have made their money so now they can obviously release one single and a video for free smile.gif


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Frankster
post Jan 9 2010, 04:29 PM
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Hello!

I have a question to this topic!

Where are the statistics ?

How many people downloaded your stuff ?
You are speaking like a big major label, "the internet and downloadig is the death of music .........".

1.) How many people downloaded your stuff and then bought your CD
2.) How many people downloaded your stuff and would never buy a CD
3.) How many people bought your CD


Thanks
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Emir Hot
post Jan 9 2010, 05:22 PM
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Sorry are you asking me to answer these? I have statistics and the numbers are not really promissing so I won't list it here. The numbers are surely 80% accurate and that's enough to nearly see the real situation. Maybe partnering with Pirate Bay can help, like Rednex did smile.gif


I never said "the internet and downloadig is the death of music ........." even though I could mostly agree to that.

This thread is for sharing oppinions on Borislav Mitic's statement about "The Murder of Music" which can be found here.


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Frankster
post Jan 9 2010, 05:53 PM
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Hi!

Thanks for the answer.

Sorry for "the internet and downloadig is the death of music", that was my fault biggrin.gif

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jafomatic
post Feb 12 2010, 07:26 PM
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More on the subject (irony: via jack conte's twitter) here:

http://techdirt.com/articles/20100208/0300578077.shtml


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JVM
post Feb 12 2010, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Feb 12 2010, 01:26 PM) *
More on the subject (irony: via jack conte's twitter) here:

http://techdirt.com/articles/20100208/0300578077.shtml


+1. This is mostly how I feel.

I find it a bit interesting that we have such absolutely polarized opinions on this subject, which to me suggests there is some confusion out there. Thats understandable, considering how much of a change the music industry is going through. But I do believe things are changing for the better, it will take adaption, experimentation with new ideas and strategies of marketing and a fresh new perspective.


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Staffy
post Feb 12 2010, 08:48 PM
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+1 from me as well. He says exactly what I mean here:

"As far as I can tell, Harden's real complaint isn't that rock 'n' roll is dying, but that a major label won't just turn him into a rockstar. Instead, he might have to actually do some work to build up a fan base, and that's icky: "

"The fact that more musicians are making music today and being able to release it and make a living from it than ever before suggests that things are actually looking much better, and we're far from "the death of rock 'n' roll," but reaching an incredible age of creativity, where people who had no chance at all before are now able to make music and make a living."


As I said before, generally speaking the trend is: the labels is out - the musicians themselves are in, the key to success is now in Your own hands!

//Staffay


--------------------


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jafomatic
post Feb 12 2010, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Feb 12 2010, 01:48 PM) *
As I said before, generally speaking the trend is: the labels is out - the musicians themselves are in, the key to success is now in Your own hands!


This is what I've been failing to communicate as well. Laboring extra hard under the assumption that the "old way" is the only way is what keeps rigid-thinking artists and labels in the dark about the possibilities exist today.


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JVM
post Feb 12 2010, 09:32 PM
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I think a lot of the state of the art recording stuff that costs many hundreds-thousands is a big reason 'label' artists are struggling, or at least I'm guessing. A very nice quality recording, well past the quality level that the masses are capable of distinguishing is easily made in home studios now. There are probably many ways to cut costs like this. The other day at work (I work as an intern with a local record label) they actually asked me to put a torrent up of one of their more successful artists, as a marketing thing. This works well with established musicians, but obviously not so well with the not established. But establishing yourself comes down to hard work, playing live in front of your local audience until you can get a bigger stage, open for some bigger band or something. It all takes some degree of luck anyway, no different than with a big label behind you.


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Staffy
post Feb 12 2010, 10:30 PM
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Agree JVM, what I'm seeing here is that the "cheating" the big labels have done in the past 30 years or so, is going down the drain - since if You wanna be successful under the new circumstances You MUST know how to perform and deliver something that is audible - eg. there will be no more Samantha Fox's and good looking boy's band put together from the labels in order to gain easy money.
The same goes for the internet marketing - if You dont sound good, playing stuff that people like - You're out. Hard but true.
But in general the music itself will benefit from this, since its gonna leave all amateurs/plastic artists without work.

//Staffay


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Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
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Kristian Hyvarin...
post Feb 12 2010, 11:45 PM
Post #160


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Group: Members
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Joined: 21-October 09
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I'd like to ask the people who are against free downloading of music here:

Are you against all kinds of illegal downloading of music? For example, some of my friends download in this way: they download an album - if they like it, they run to the music shop and buy it. If they don't like it: heck, they wouldn't have bought it anyway. So what they do there is actually increasing the money flow towards musicians - since they are loath to buying albums they haven't listened to. So are you against those people's actions, too? If so, then why?

I understand that these kinds of people are very few and they do not represent the whole downloading population - more like the small good crack of it. I think this kind of behaviour is the right thing to do, since it gives the opportunity to get to support artists they wouldn't have heard of otherwise.

What do you think? smile.gif
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