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> The Murder Of Music, Think Before You Act
Saoirse O'Shea
post Feb 13 2010, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE (Kristian Hyvarinen @ Feb 12 2010, 11:45 PM) *
I'd like to ask the people who are against free downloading of music here:

Are you against all kinds of illegal downloading of music?


Yes

QUOTE
For example, some of my friends download in this way: they download an album - if they like it, they run to the music shop and buy it. If they don't like it: heck, they wouldn't have bought it anyway. So what they do there is actually increasing the money flow towards musicians - since they are loath to buying albums they haven't listened to. So are you against those people's actions, too? If so, then why?


There are many legal ways to hear music - try the radio/spotify/LastFM and so on wink.gif . Many groups release samples for free or cds/records at low price. Some labels do so to.



This post has been edited by tonymiro: Feb 13 2010, 12:54 AM


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Kristian Hyvarin...
post Feb 13 2010, 09:09 AM
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Maybe I'm quibbling over the details here, but I still want to go on. biggrin.gif

So if a person hears an album he likes and goes to buy it, what's the difference if he's downloaded it from the net or heard it from Spotify?

I repeat that I really am just focusing on a small group of people here, but this interests me.
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Staffy
post Feb 13 2010, 09:35 AM
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I'm also against illegal downloads - but the problem will remain until the record industry/musicians shapes up and offers some decent alternatives. I don't even think of getting a lousy MP3 with my favourite artist, since it sounds like crap comparing with the real product. What I'm saying (like I did earlier here) is that the industry must adopt the internet and create other ways to spread the music than going to a record store and buy it over disc. I agree that illegal downloads works as a "teaser" for a small number of people though, but most of the people into illegal downloading are actually young people who never mind to buy the records anyway.

Spotify is a great idea - even that the royalties paid back to the labels/musicians are ridiculous low. Also it contains mostly the already established artists, hence - there is not really a market for publishing new artists/music ( if You dont advertising) But also here I must complain bout the sound-quality which is awful, it sounds like Im sitting in the back of my car or something.... tongue.gif

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Keilnoth
post Feb 13 2010, 10:48 AM
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Deezer became quite good as well to listen to music. I think alternatives are emerging. Too bad it took so long.

But still a LOT of music is missing or not even available in some countries. I would be more than happy to pay 20$/month for that kind of media but they are not reliable for now. You never know if tomorrow they will still exist and broadcast the music you like.


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Gitarrero
post Feb 13 2010, 03:16 PM
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I want to agree to what Kristian said before. I am or was that kind of person that would illegally download music, and if I disliked it, I would delete it. If I liked it, I would go and buy the record, and later on buy more records and go to concerts. But of course, there is only a small group of people who act that way. I already discussed this with Marcus Siepen in his forum, since Blind Guardian is in of these band from which I illegally downloaded one album, and now I legally bought a couple more and will go to their concert in october.
I think nowadays there are other ways to listen to music before you buy it, be it the legal teasers on amazon or itunes or the semi-legal stuff on youtube ( I think most of it is legal now, is it?), where you can listen to whole albums...
Most record stores give you the opportunity to listen to a CD in the store when you ask them. That's why I don't download stuff illegally anymore.


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sted
post Feb 14 2010, 01:20 PM
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I cant tell you how many times Ive heard something on the radio, bought the album and the next day throw it in the rack to forget about it or even in some cases thrown it in the bin, literally! Does anyone beleive that the music industry is concerned over people who buy an album of utter garbage? I didnt think so.
I just feel completely and utterly cheated by record labels, TV, radio, its all just one massive con, the media saturation given to mainstream artists makes me sick and the music they produce is nothing but mass produced over processed crap.
Im really sorry that real musicians find themselves caught up in this one way relationship with the music industry and feel that they need to be signed to a label to garner any success, obviously the measure of "success" here is how much money can be earnt from music rather than the actual success of making good music that people will listen to.
I for one will not shed any tears over the death of the music "industry",you will reap what you sow and it deserves to die in my opinion for the way it has turned the gift to humanity that is music into a commodity to be brokered to the people who create it. Music will never die, it will evolve and it will thrive, it will find a way, it will be a darwinian process but unfortunately we are at the point now where it has to happen.
Artists need to wise up, if I like your music I will buy it, I dont care if its off itunes or off your website or off you at a gig (I recently saw aynsley lister a brit blues musician, he finished the gig, came off stage and went straight to the back of the venue to start selling CD's, I bought two) I will not buy music pushed on me by the media machine that is X factor, newspapers, MTV, in fact I would go as far as to say I would go out of my way to encourage people to illegally download it and destroy it forever, of course it will never happen because the masses are brainwashed to accept these false idols.
I know this post will win me few friends but I am honest in my beleif that real music will find its way and i will support those people with my hard earned cash forever, that I promise, but I will not sympathise with an industry that has only ever exploited people for its own ends.
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stratman79
post Feb 15 2010, 12:57 AM
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This is a really interesting thread...

Just read all 9 pages, some good points and arguments.

I know P2P file sharing is a lot more rife but surely everyone used to copy tapes when they where kids?

Its always been a problem but just because people can download your music it doesn't mean that if the option wasn't there they would buy your CD, if 100 people illegally download your music how many of them would have bought your CD/MP3?

I know it doesn't make it right and they still are effectivily stealing but realistically it hasn't cost you...

There where a couple of points made early on that I thought where a bit misguided...

The whole hiphop/electronic music thing been an easy way out. I've got a good mate who does the whole (uk) Hiphop thing and he has mad skills. He's been DJ'ing for over 25years, won national championships years ago (when it used to mean something). He practises for hours a day, gigs 2-3 times a week when not on tour, makes and produces albums and runs events. PLus he still has to work in a record store 3 days a week. It's not an easy way out for sure. I know the rappers he works with put in a lot of hours and work very hard towards there profession.

I think if your not with a major then you have to look at different ways to marlet yourself. When we released stuff we'd press a 1000 45's (7inch vinyl) and not release CD's. That way we knew we'd never sell masses but enough to create a buzz and earn some cash and in the scene we where in it (heavy funk) most of the people buying where DJ's. We'd also make CD's of collection of the singles to sell at gigs.

Its all about creating a scene, I started running a night and bringing other bands from scene (from all over europe) to our night to create a buzz around us in our home town and then get return gigs in there towns & cities. After releasing 45's through a couple of labels then we started press the records up our self and just get a distro deal, to get more of the monies ourself...

Emir, London is a brutal city to be working as a musicain in , (surely only behind LA and New York) regarding work isn't there some other guitar orinated work someone of your ability can look into.

Teaching wise have you looked in to some of the guitar techs. (ACM, BIMM or GT)
Writing for guitar techniques or some other publications.
As one of the other instructors said picking up a regular function gig and give you your rent guarrented.
Doing clinics for a guitar manufactor, a friend of mine does drum clinic for mapex, roland and paste and makes a good living out of it.

Session wise its really hard, Guthrie, Dave K, Pete Callard are all there to compete against but if you get in to one of the above then hopefully some of those players will pass work on to you.

Guthrie didn't get any breaks until he was in his 40, and now he is playing for Dizzy Rascal and (not only doing his own stuff)

I don't think Guthrie got paid to take a year off to make his album

I don't mean to sound like a know all, just some suggestions, anyway good luck I really hope it works out.

This post has been edited by stratman79: Feb 15 2010, 01:08 AM
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Staffy
post Feb 15 2010, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (sted @ Feb 14 2010, 01:20 PM) *
I for one will not shed any tears over the death of the music "industry",you will reap what you sow and it deserves to die in my opinion for the way it has turned the gift to humanity that is music into a commodity to be brokered to the people who create it. Music will never die, it will evolve and it will thrive, it will find a way, it will be a darwinian process but unfortunately we are at the point now where it has to happen.
I know this post will win me few friends but I am honest in my beleif that real music will find its way and i will support those people with my hard earned cash forever, that I promise, but I will not sympathise with an industry that has only ever exploited people for its own ends.


I'm still Your friend Sted! smile.gif You say pretty much what I also think. The record industry stinks, and to cite Clapton he says: "95% of the music in the old days were junk, and so it is nowadays too". Why? Because people eats what's on the table. If they could have steaks everyday instead of McDonalds, they would. But as long as the big record companys are feeding us with garbage, there will be market for it. I recently read the biography of Lemmy in Motorhead, and he has been working with a lot of of record lables since the sixties, he's really upset with all of them for not listening to the artists and acting in their interests. So the sooner these dinosaurs go down the drain- the better!!


QUOTE (stratman79 @ Feb 15 2010, 12:57 AM) *
Guthrie didn't get any breaks until he was in his 40, and now he is playing for Dizzy Rascal and (not only doing his own stuff)

I don't think Guthrie got paid to take a year off to make his album


You say something very interesting here. Quality & style never goes together with commercial success. (with a few exceptions)
Players like Guthrie will never have commercial success in the same way as Madonna, since their music doesn't applies to the masses - just a few people that are interested in the art of guitar playing. Based on that thinking there is some ways to go:

1) Learn to play like everybody else - and You can earn a living as a top session player / play in cover bands.
2) Write some good songs in the easy listening genre - and You can live by the royalties paid.
3) Go to school and study economics - the stock market brings a lot of more money than trying to be a musician, You can even be Your own record label owner and sit on the end of the table where the money goes.....

And maybe the most important thing: You can try to play Your own music - BUT - be prepared to have less money than everybody else, struggling to get gigs, put a lot of effort to market Yourself and have a messy life - in return You will probably be HAPPY, since music are what we love!!! biggrin.gif

//Staffay


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AdamB
post Feb 16 2010, 09:54 AM
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To be honest, I think it's only a natural thing for people to download illegally. I'm not saying it's good, because it definantly isn't. I work in the games industry, so people downloading illegally are effectivly stealing money from my pockets and making my life a lot harder, so it doesn't make me happy. However, I must admit when I was younger I downloaded music and games. Although in retrospect, I didn't actually have any money to pay for them if I wanted to get them legally.

I guess that the only compromise that will work for everyone is that if you CAN afford it, you should buy it. I guess if I made an album and released it, I wouldn't mind people downloading it for free provided that it's the only way they can get it. If they absolutely do not have 5 quid to give me for it, because they're a child or because they are very, very poor or something, then it'd be OK. But otherwise, gimme gimme gimme!
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Dexxter
post Feb 16 2010, 11:49 AM
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I certainly don't think that this is the end of music! I know lots of great new bands with awesome guitar players. And guess what, I hadn't found out about them and hadn't even been able to buy their stuff without the internet. One example is Gama Bomb. They released their latest album online for free and advertised about it. So I downloaded it. And now I'm sitting here, with a bought CD in my hand's and a t-shirt that came with it in a pack. I even bought there former album too, and a t-shirt with that too. Whenever I release an album of my own or with my band, this will totally be the way to go for me.

Check out this post from the frontman of Gama Bomb. I think he has some very cool things to say about the subject. Note that this is a year and a half before they released an album for free.
http://headbangersblog.mtv.com/2008/12/04/...ing-downloader/

This post has been edited by Dexxter: Feb 16 2010, 11:52 AM
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Todd Simpson
post Aug 31 2011, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 8 2009, 11:18 PM) *
My friend and an awesome neoclassical shredder Borislav Mitic has recently signed for Lion Music which is the metal label from Finland that also released my album.

Just before he released his new record he posted a very seirous story about "The Murder of Music" on the Lion Music's website. Some of other Lion Music artists (including me) also gave their input on this subject.

CHECK IT OUT HERE!

I would be interested to see comments on Borislav's text from GMC community.


I know this is an older post, but it's still a VERY important and VERY sensitive topic. I"ve been working as "Consultant" with artists and various intelectual properties to try to help them make the transition from the old biz model (selling value added 5 inch plastic discs) to the new model (struggling like crazy to make any money at all)

Here is my basic pitch/plan in a nutshell, and of course, free smile.gif

The Music Biz as we knew it is dead, long live the Music Biz! (King is dead/long live the king, the old passes away but the structure remains) The good news is the murder of the old system represents massive change and change is opportunity. As a musician/instructor and have had to really struggle to find new revenue streams given the death of physical media. I'm not going to lie. It's tough. But I wanted to reach out to you guys and offer some of the solutions that have helped me and that I've used to help others. As you guys know, I work as a consultant on a show called indieatl.com which recently got picked up by comcast for distribution. This took nearly four years though and we learned a LOT along the way.

1.)Social Media (Ad Revenue, awareness)

-By becoming a "YoutubePartner" you can share in advert revenue. I'm a youtube partner with my youtube channel
www.youtube.com/techniqueswithtodd which has 3600 subscribers, more than 1.5 Million video views) Not bad considering I"m not exactly a household name smile.gif Getting to be a partner does take some time and proven traffic. But it's doable.

-Facebook/twitter/ReverbNation/LastFM - It's impossible to conduct commerce without being knee deep in social media these days. You guys really need a presence on every social media outlet. And to avoid going crazy trying to post to them all, using hootsuite.com is a must to post to all of them at once. No revenue here, but great outlet for promo/raising awareness of new acts/releases etc.

2.)FREEMIUM - The new model is Freemium. In other words, 80 percent of your audience simply won't pay for anything. Fine. Give them the free stuff. The other 20 percent will support your entire biz. These folks will pay "The Extra" for the five disc DVD limited Edition set with signed Silk Hoodie and branded flipflops or what not. So instead of charging 100 people 10 Euro for a CD, you charge 20 People 50 Euro for the "limited Edition Set with USB thumb drive containing exclusive tracks" and give the mp3 version to the other 80.

In addition to these tactics, the artists can generate revenue outside unit sales. For example, teaching guitar lessons on the web, on sites like this one, in person, in groups, etc. Also, giving seminars, events, etc. Even signings, talks, etc. Pressing the flesh and sharing skills can bring in cash and promote the artist at the same time smile.gif

In short, it's tough. I'm not going to sugar coat it. But fighting change is pointless. Embrace it. smile.gif And oh yeah, PRACTICE!


Todd


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Aug 31 2011, 03:21 PM
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Great post Todd, very inspiring smile.gif


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