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> The Murder Of Music, Think Before You Act
Staffy
post Dec 13 2009, 11:36 AM
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[quote name='Pedja Simovic' date='Dec 12 2009, 02:25 PM' post='448853'
All I am saying is things vary from country to country, from style to style and from situation to situation.
I would rather sell my album for 5$ on my site then have it in store for 15$ and not sell a single copy.
[/quote]

This I will agree to 100% Pedja! But still its a matter of what You wanna get out of the music eg. Money vs. A good living, which may not be contradictional since if You have money, You will certainly have opportunities for a good living too.... On the other hand, with all opportunities in the music industry today, its quite easy to make a living out of it, its just a matter of the demands one have. For instance You can be teaching at GMC! tongue.gif Nah, what I really mean is that its hard to get some money out of Your OWN music but if You play for the audience instead, its another thing.... but then You're making violence on Your integrity as a musician, which is bad. Therefore I say that is a matter of balance: How much of Your soul are You willing to sell????


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MirkoSchmidt
post Dec 13 2009, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 11 2009, 02:35 PM) *
Exactly smile.gif So what are we doing here with 10 hours of practicing everyday? Shall we start making hip-hop music or there is a way to make a living of music that we spent years learning?


Im sure there a many many talented rappers out there who practice 10 ours a day too and they are never that successful that they earn enough money to live from that!
maybe they wrote in there hip-hop-threads: we should play guitar and get famous like Tokio Hotel (famous german rockband)
In Germany we have much young talented rockbands, they are in the charts, they are famous and rich.
i think there is a chance for everybody! But like you all know, you need much luck to gets that famous that you can earn money with that! doesnt matter what kind of music you do!

I love that music here, we have so much great guitar players here but thats isnt a reason for the most of the people to buy a cd. we all a musicans, we want to buy ambitious music, we want to "hear" the skills of the guitarist!
Its hard to say, but: most of the time i show my wife something form GMC she said: that sounds terrible, thats only fast, its only guitar, and much more... ohmy.gif
"Normal" people are not interested in our skills... sad.gif
look at status quo, or something like that, smoke on the water, all that stuff is so easy to play! nobody needs 10 hours of practice a day to play like that!
only thing you need is the right tune on the right time! maybe the only thing you need is luck...

This post has been edited by MirkoSchmidt: Dec 13 2009, 12:19 PM


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Staffy
post Dec 13 2009, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (MirkoSchmidt @ Dec 13 2009, 12:18 PM) *
look at status quo, or something like that, smoke on the water, all that stuff is so easy to play!


*Bump* I wouldn't say that its easy to play like Ritchie Blackmore, its even harder to come up with a own style like his... I bet he was practicing at least 10 hours a day.... smile.gif


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MirkoSchmidt
post Dec 13 2009, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Dec 13 2009, 12:27 PM) *
*Bump* I wouldn't say that its easy to play like Ritchie Blackmore, its even harder to come up with a own style like his... I bet he was practicing at least 10 hours a day.... smile.gif


yeah, thats a difference, practicing to get skills like hell, or practicing to come up with a own style! but i have no idea, how i can find a own style, i think you need much talent for that...

blackmore didnt show his skills in every song, isnt it? there a songs, i could play in 30 minutes and there are songs i would need 3 years to play them! yeah, sure i will never really sounds as good as he, but thats not the point here! happy.gif

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jstcrsn
post Dec 13 2009, 12:39 PM
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Quick qeustion. How many C.D.'s have any of you sold? It seems to me that until you have done this or played the "game" your comments are just theories.So i encourage you go put your theory to work .
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Neurologi
post Dec 13 2009, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 13 2009, 01:39 PM) *
Quick qeustion. How many C.D.'s have any of you sold? It seems to me that until you have done this or played the "game" your comments are just theories.So i encourage you go put your theory to work .

True. The point here though is that CD's are NOT being sold ...


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MirkoSchmidt
post Dec 13 2009, 12:43 PM
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i have sold 0 cds, you?


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jstcrsn
post Dec 13 2009, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE (MirkoSchmidt @ Dec 13 2009, 12:43 PM) *
i have sold 0 cds, you?

only about ona thousand in my little towm and sorrouding communities

QUOTE (Neurologi @ Dec 13 2009, 12:41 PM) *
True. The point here though is that CD's are NOT being sold ...

true- are they being sold or are they being stolen, but still untull you been trying to sell your own you will have a knew understanding of pirating.
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Rik Veldhuizen
post Dec 13 2009, 01:16 PM
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That is impressive.

But: do not underestimate the opinions of the crowd (in this case, the GMC community members). The combined knowledge and ideas that can come from this forum alone can already turn into something useful for those who actually want to sell their own music.

Of course, this is self promotion, given that I own a company that distributes prediction software using the crowd's knowledge smile.gif (www.crowdpredictions.com), but nevertheless, the fact that we've decided to move in this direction with our company is because it does work. No need to be experts (or actual CD sellers) for powerful combined knowledge.
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Neurologi
post Dec 13 2009, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 13 2009, 02:14 PM) *
true- are they being sold or are they being stolen, but still untull you been trying to sell your own you will have a knew understanding of pirating.

All the same you make the mistake of assuming the traditional business model (implied by your statement of direct sales in your LOCAL area and community). Exactly the same one that the majors have made and continue to do so all the while having the hide to feel as though they are being cheated by not changing what obviously does not work. The onus is not on the consumer to change but for those who want to ply their wares and making a living from it. If you or they wish for a wider audience and potential market the choices are obvious. Otherwise, continue what you are doing - play the role of the victim. It is your choice whether you wish to benefit from the opportunity or not.


QUOTE (Rik Veldhuizen @ Dec 13 2009, 02:16 PM) *
But: do not underestimate the opinions of the crowd (in this case, the GMC community members). The combined knowledge and ideas that can come from this forum alone can already turn into something useful for those who actually want to sell their own music.

Of course, this is self promotion, given that I own a company that distributes prediction software using the crowd's knowledge smile.gif (www.crowdpredictions.com), but nevertheless, the fact that we've decided to move in this direction with our company is because it does work. No need to be experts (or actual CD sellers) for powerful combined knowledge.

Exactly. A valid point or opinion does not necessarily have to come from those we ASSUME to be in the best position to do so. What worked for Deep Purple or Whitesnake in the past obviously does not do the trick now. That example has already been made. Would you want to take a leaf from their book as it stands now? Talking of past glories and negating the presence of the now and the future?


Besides, those that are selling CDs are in the minority. An alternative approach is needed. Alternative sources of income. What's so good about CD's anyway? I have plenty of them but they never get played. MP3's are far more convenient. They don't wear out over time. Anyhow, I ain't paying top dollar for physical CD's I can't find in my local store and have to import them instead from some boutique dealer paying shipping and handling in the process. Most of the money forked over never reaches the artist anyway. Liner notes and so on are just not worth the price premium. Of course, the picture changes if I can purchase one at a live gig.

The focus on physical media just perpetuates this dire set of consequences. That is past ways of thinking and doing business that gets everybody nowhere pretty fast.

This post has been edited by Neurologi: Dec 13 2009, 01:40 PM


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jstcrsn
post Dec 13 2009, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (Neurologi @ Dec 13 2009, 01:28 PM) *
All the same you make the mistake of assuming the traditional business model (implied by your statement of direct sales in your LOCAL area and community). Exactly the same one that the majors have made and continue to do so all the while having the hide to feel as though they are being cheated by not changing what obviously does not work. The onus is not on the consumer to change but for those who want to ply their wares and making a living from it. If you or they wish for a wider audience and potential market the choices are obvious. Otherwise, continue what you are doing - play the role of the victim. It is your choice whether you wish to benefit from the opportunity or not.



Exactly. A valid point or opinion does not necessarily have to come from those we ASSUME to be in the best position to do so. What worked for Deep Purple or Whitesnake in the past obviously does not do the trick now. That example has already been made. Would you want to take a leaf from their book as it stands now? Talking of past glories and negating the presence of the now and the future?

yes but you would not want your kidney removed by some one who has only read about it
you still have'nt told me is this your experience or theory

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Neurologi
post Dec 13 2009, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 13 2009, 02:30 PM) *
yes but you would not want your kidney removed by some one who has only read about it
you still have'nt told me is this your experience or theory

Read my previous post. I don't think your points are valid at all. You make comparisons where there are none. Hyperbole does not contribute anything here.

Why stop there, man? Why not ask every single poster in this thread the same question? That's it. I am getting off this one. Your sense of community disturbs me.

This post has been edited by Neurologi: Dec 13 2009, 01:46 PM


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jstcrsn
post Dec 13 2009, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE (Neurologi @ Dec 13 2009, 01:42 PM) *
Read my previous post. I don't think your points are valid at all. You make comparisons where there are none. Hyperbole does not contribute anything here.

Why stop there, man? Why not ask every single poster in this thread the same question? That's it. I am getting off this one. Your sense of community disturbs me.

didn't mean to offend- is that spelled right-just that personal experience changes your thinking
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Rik Veldhuizen
post Dec 13 2009, 02:12 PM
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The mistake here is the comparison of kidney removal execution. The interpretation of the crowd's opinions/predictions is a different matter. Those who want to execute on it (i.e. remove the kidney) can and should take the results into consideration. You are not asking the crowd to actually remove the kidney, you are tapping into their collective intelligence on what could work best for the situation. Use their opinions/predictions to your own discretion.

Obviously, the kidney comparison is not working, given that the crowd does not necessarily have info that would help here smile.gif. However, we all buy/make/love music and have been doing this for a long time. Surely there is value in the opinions.

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MirkoSchmidt
post Dec 13 2009, 02:49 PM
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wtf.... what means kidney? imy dictionary only told me that it is a internal organ and that doesnt make any sense to me... wacko.gif

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 13 2009, 01:14 PM) *
only about ona thousand in my little towm and sorrouding communities


true- are they being sold or are they being stolen, but still untull you been trying to sell your own you will have a knew understanding of pirating.



im not sure if this is a ironic answer, but i dont like that ONLY in your sentence. 1000 people like your music that much that they bought a hole cd from you! i think thats amazing! concratulation man!!! good work!

i hope im good enough to write own songs and make a cd too (in a few years)


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Neurologi
post Dec 13 2009, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 13 2009, 03:03 PM) *
didn't mean to offend- is that spelled right-just that personal experience changes your thinking

No worries, man. I just see that the same arguments are being used now as over five years ago when I first became aware of this phenomenon of the digital music revolution and how to deal with it as it applies to the music industry. I don't see any progress even after all this time judging by the responses here. Preconceived notions and old habits of doing business are the culprit in my opinion and it is exactly that - my opinion. The switch in thinking has to be made and invalidating any information that comes one's way on the basis of irrelevant criteria only reduces your palette of choices from which to draw from.


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MirkoSchmidt
post Dec 13 2009, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE (Neurologi @ Dec 13 2009, 02:49 PM) *
No worries, man. I just see that the same arguments are being used now as over five years ago when I first became aware of this phenomenon of the digital music revolution and how to deal with it as it applies to the music industry. I don't see any progress even after all this time judging by the responses here. Preconceived notions and old habits of doing business are the culprit in my opinion and it is exactly that - my opinion. The switch in thinking has to be made and invalidating any information that comes one's way on the basis of irrelevant criteria only reduces your palette of choices from which to draw from.


ken my friend... please... dont write that difficult english. i needed a dictionray three times for every sentense....


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Neurologi
post Dec 13 2009, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (Rik Veldhuizen @ Dec 13 2009, 03:12 PM) *
The mistake here is the comparison of kidney removal execution. The interpretation of the crowd's opinions/predictions is a different matter. Those who want to execute on it (i.e. remove the kidney) can and should take the results into consideration. You are not asking the crowd to actually remove the kidney, you are tapping into their collective intelligence on what could work best for the situation. Use their opinions/predictions to your own discretion.

Obviously, the kidney comparison is not working, given that the crowd does not necessarily have info that would help here smile.gif. However, we all buy/make/love music and have been doing this for a long time. Surely there is value in the opinions.

smile.gif Yeah you have it right. Musicians have to become business savvy. Any and all tools which can help in that regard are valuable like the one you speak of.

QUOTE (MirkoSchmidt @ Dec 13 2009, 03:55 PM) *
ken my friend... please... dont write that difficult english. i needed a dictionray three times for every sentense....

Haha! laugh.gif Oh but I am providing a service then in the improvement of your English skills! wink.gif All good.


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jstcrsn
post Dec 13 2009, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE (Rik Veldhuizen @ Dec 13 2009, 02:12 PM) *
The mistake here is the comparison of kidney removal execution. The interpretation of the crowd's opinions/predictions is a different matter. Those who want to execute on it (i.e. remove the kidney) can and should take the results into consideration. You are not asking the crowd to actually remove the kidney, you are tapping into their collective intelligence on what could work best for the situation. Use their opinions/predictions to your own discretion.

Obviously, the kidney comparison is not working, given that the crowd does not necessarily have info that would help here smile.gif. However, we all buy/make/love music and have been doing this for a long time. Surely there is value in the opinions.

i was using the kidney as a metaphore for someone who has been there and done that versus someone who hasn'nt and is only describing what they heard or how they think it should be donei- please don't make me use big words like metophore again , don't know if i spelled it right and it just hurts my head blink.gif
as fare as the cd thanks. it was made in 2ooo and the band broke up in early 03, i'll ask the singer if he minds me posting a song for GMC listeners

about hte main theme about Emir topic
if someone walked up to you and said i will sell your cd and make you onr million dollars but for every one you make i will make 9 mill. and without him you will probably make 50.000 .would you do it. is that wrong for that person to profit like that .well that is what the record campanies do. i understand about the knew media and it is effective but not like posters mass media t.v. exposure . to me all are good the problem lies in the STEALING in either one

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Neurologi
post Dec 13 2009, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 13 2009, 04:07 PM) *
as fare as the cd thanks. it was made in 2ooo and the band broke up in early 03, i'll ask the singer if he minds me posting a song for GMC listeners

Ah good! That would be cool. My faith is once again restored ... smile.gif



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