Ap,sweep Or Economy - Confusing? |
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Dec 14 2009, 06:50 AM
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After Jose Mena's excellent spoken lesson bout AP-picking, I guess its time to pick up the never ending discussion about picking techniques again. Im getting really confused here since I saw Frank Gambale in an interwiev claiming that he tries to sweep-pick in every single little situation - which in turn would be the same as economy-picking in my belief. So the best would obviously be to master all of the techniques, but the problem herein lies in that when You actually improvises You can't think about whether to sweep/economy or AP. So that leads to the big question (again): Which technique to use????
//Staffay --------------------  Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Dec 14 2009, 07:28 AM
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Whichever you find the most comfortabe and apropriate in that very moment of improvisation
 That's what I do at least even though I am a big fan of AP. Some licks and runs just sound better and easier to play with economy so learning both can't do you bad. Frank is a jazz guy and they rarely alternate pick but trust me he knows how to use both
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Dec 14 2009, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 14 2009, 07:28 AM)  Whichever you find the most comfortabe and apropriate in that very moment of improvisation That's what I do at least even though I am a big fan of AP. Some licks and runs just sound better and easier to play with economy so learning both can't do you bad. Frank is a jazz guy and they rarely alternate pick but trust me he knows how to use both Yeah, of course, Frank is a very skilled guy. Hmmm, I guess I would go for some AP, since I've ever thought bout technique really until now. I realized that I actually use sweep picking when it comes to arpeggios without thinking of it..... But also I have a lot of "bad habits" by playing things legato that have sounded a lot better if they were picked..... What really confuses me here is when You're supposed to switch string, its most logical to me like Frank says, that if the string is higher and Your pick is already moving downwards, why should You then go for an upstroke? Then the wrist has to "jump" like Jose says in his lesson (which is outstanding imo.), which is obviously an unnecessary movement but in turn I can see the advantages in this if You mastering it properly since then You are not bound to the right hand at all when improvising.... (its really improvising im talking bout here, since if You play a written part its easy to arrange it so it sounds good....) //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Dec 14 2009, 08:55 AM
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I wouldn't say unnecessary movement. If you pick string like its own stroke (whether upstroke or downstroke), you get much stronger attack and more agressive sound. If you sweep that note it sounds very soft. The effect can only be demonstrated if you play some fast run with both techniques and you would hear the huge difference.
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Dec 14 2009, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 14 2009, 08:55 AM) I wouldn't say unnecessary movement. If you pick string like its own stroke (whether upstroke or downstroke), you get much stronger attack and more agressive sound. If you sweep that note it sounds very soft. The effect can only be demonstrated if you play some fast run with both techniques and you would hear the huge difference. Hmmm, thats true! I hadn't thought of that. Thanx Emir. So basically its really bout if You wanna be a "hard" guy or a "soft" guy...  Nah, I can clearly see now why the modern jazz players use sweeping/legato/economy since they wanna sound smoother, in the old days all jazz players did the AP-picking and that is a totally different sound. So I guess I have to go for both, since I want to be able to do some shredding-like stuff as well. (it will at least scare my children...  )//Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Dec 14 2009, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Dec 14 2009, 08:11 AM) Hmmm, thats true! I hadn't thought of that. Thanx Emir. So basically its really bout if You wanna be a "hard" guy or a "soft" guy... Nah, I can clearly see now why the modern jazz players use sweeping/legato/economy since they wanna sound smoother, in the old days all jazz players did the AP-picking and that is a totally different sound. So I guess I have to go for both, since I want to be able to do some shredding-like stuff as well. (it will at least scare my children... )//Staffay Shredding is cool man
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Dec 14 2009, 10:57 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Dec 14 2009, 09:46 AM) Shredding is cool man Yeah, if its played tight and accurate.... guess I have to take some of Your lessons.... //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Dec 14 2009, 11:48 AM
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Thank you for the explanation guys!
I'm also a great AP-fan. 
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Dec 14 2009, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Dec 14 2009, 02:52 PM) For me it's AP all the way, but maybe it's just wat you like to do? And I gues Economy Picking can sometimes be harder to use without getting dirty. If you make the sweep motion to agressive you'll get ringing strings I gues. AP Hmmm, Kaz, have You heard Frank Gambale???? He was the one who's supposed to invent sweep picking in the late 70's long before the heavy metal guys adopted it. He even wrote a book on the topic, guess Jason Becker must have read it... Anyhow, he's technique is simply stunning! //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Dec 14 2009, 04:04 PM
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For me, when I'm improvising, before I'm going to play a scale or a phrase, there's a split second when I go: "ok, this is going to be AP" or "let's do this one with sweeping",
it happens in a very small time frame, so I guess it's important to master them all, but as you said Frank Gambale devoted to one technique that enables him to not think at all -------------------- Visit my:
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Dec 15 2009, 02:05 AM
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I believe Mr. Gambale has great AP technique as well, it just happens he's famous about his extensive use of EP.
Both techniques can be useful, both have different sound to them. Some things are easier to play with one, some heavier and vice versa. Depends on the situation, but both should be rehearsed to a degree, depending on the needs. -------------------- - Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
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