2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Pedal Or New Pickups?, If I want to increase pinch harmonics....
Hammerhead
post Dec 27 2009, 05:56 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



Aloha and happy Holidays to everyone!

Here is my tech / gear question. I would like to expand my sonic choices with my guitar (YJM Strat). The pickups are very low output. I like the way they sound, I can get clear, clean tones and they dirty up well. It depends on the distortion that I use (Vox tonlab LE/ Randall amp). Here is my question, If I would like (at times) to get more of the pinch harmonics (and bite), would a Boost pedal, or Tube Screamer, or what huh.gif help me to do that? Would I need to start with the pickups@ the very beginning of the signal? or could I find a pedal that would give the option to turn this "effect" on and off, which is the option I'd prefer since then I can add it or not when I want too wink.gif


--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ZakkWylde
post Dec 27 2009, 06:36 PM
Post #2


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 3.185
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Germany
Member No.: 2.164



A boost pedal can only get you so far, it simply pushes the amp more but in most cases the amps gain isn't even maxed out.

The low output singlecoils are the problem. More output will make harmonics easier and switching to a humbucker would make your sound even fatter and the harmonics even meaner but you would loose the clarity and the clean tones.

You can either go for one extreme (keep the coils; go for a humbucker) or try to find a pickup that can do both fairly well.
For the second option, try a Dimarzio Chopper. It is a single coil sized humbucker that works really well as an allrounder.


--------------------


Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Dec 27 2009, 06:44 PM
Post #3


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



Nothing really to add, except that if You already got a Tonelab and can't get enough gain out of that, a tube screamer or booster wouldn'nt help either.... but also keep in mind that in order to have the "bite" and make the pinch harmonics work, fresh strings is a must, old stirngs really kill all harmonics. However, I find it a little strange, since I have no problem to get enough gain out of my strats.. but of course its a matter of what sound You're after.

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hammerhead
post Dec 27 2009, 07:45 PM
Post #4


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



Thanxz for the replies this helps me try to figure out what I might do. Staffy it's not that I can't get serious gain, it's just that I can't seem to get the "squeal" in the pinch harmonics that will really ring with sustain... the Tone lab is great, and gives me serious distortion. It's possible that I don't have my pickups set to the optimal height, or maybe it's something else I haven't though of huh.gif I change strings about every 2 months, so they are not too worn out. Perhaps my real question should be how do I get that high pitch ringing sustain with the pinch harmonics? I'm under the impression that Hot /high output pickups are designed to produce these types of overdrive sounds... If I have low / vintage style pickups... how do I get the sounds I'm looking for? Again thanks for all the suggestions and guitar Education, I don't have a lot of money to spend on my music so when I do, I want to get the most bang for my buck wink.gif

I am happy with the sounds I've got... I just want MORE biggrin.gif


--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ZakkWylde
post Dec 27 2009, 07:51 PM
Post #5


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 3.185
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Germany
Member No.: 2.164



No offense here but it might be your playing style...
To get screaming harmonics you don't just need the perfect gear, it also requires a flawless technique of hitting the pinch harmonic clearly, at the right spot and a heavy vibrato on the left hand to make it squeal!

The right equipment sure helps but it should be possible to get some nice harmonics from your gear.
How is it when you play another guitar? Can you get your desired PH sound on other gear?


--------------------


Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hammerhead
post Dec 27 2009, 08:05 PM
Post #6


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



Zakk,
"No offense here but it might be your playing style... " You know that crossed my mind huh.gif As I was writing my questions I thought maybe I need to work on my technique huh.gif

If I can get the sounds I'm looking for with the equipment I have... well that's the best answer yet! I will see if I can check my equipment with other guitars, and in the meantime I will look @ my technique (any suggestions for help in this area?)

Of course I think I'm always looking for an excuse to buy a new toy...


--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Daniel Realpe
post Dec 27 2009, 09:03 PM
Post #7


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.655
Joined: 11-October 09
From: Bogota
Member No.: 7.694



For those Zakk-wylde-Dimebag-Darrell types of harmonics you have to have lots of gain. And check that they both use humbuckers and high gain amps.

Check Slipknot's guitarist. He uses a Telecaster but he changed the pick ups to humbuckers. They really use pinched harmonics.

Jim Root Telecaster


--------------------
Visit my:
INSTRUCTOR PROFILE

"If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music."
Gustav Mahler


Subscribe to my Youtube Channel here
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hammerhead
post Dec 27 2009, 10:34 PM
Post #8


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Dec 27 2009, 10:03 AM) *
For those Zakk-wylde-Dimebag-Darrell types of harmonics you have to have lots of gain. And check that they both use humbuckers and high gain amps.

Check Slipknot's guitarist. He uses a Telecaster but he changed the pick ups to humbuckers. They really use pinched harmonics.

Jim Root Telecaster


Thanks Daniel... It's interesting to see that the Tele is getting some attention in the metal realm! I've always thought of it as a twangy country type of guitar, but John 5 and others are changing it's image! cool.gif

Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 


--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Dec 27 2009, 11:18 PM
Post #9


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



Hmmm, I wouldn't put humbuckers on a strat, I'd rather buy another type of guitar since the necks are screwed and not optimized for sustain as for instance Gibsons are.... Telecasters is more massive though, but still the neck is screwed.... But maybe that makes no difference if You play loud enough anyway!!! tongue.gif

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Dec 28 2009, 12:24 AM
Post #10


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



QUOTE (VictorUK @ Dec 28 2009, 12:03 AM) *
Both, you need the pickups with enough output and a pedal to ride the sustain.


What? A volume pedal maybe? When I'm running my LP in my Marshall 2203 loud enough, I kinda have full sustain on every note.... laugh.gif

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hammerhead
post Dec 28 2009, 03:16 AM
Post #11


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



I like this thread... it is an interesting discussion! I love tone!!! and plenty of it biggrin.gif Here is the real question:

Keeping my strat SSS, what can I do to increase the harmonics and bite of my tone? I currently have the HS (humbucking stack) pickups that are low output. Zakk suggested I look at my technique as well as dimarzio Choppers (which I have an eye on). Both are good suggestions. Victor is right, the theory behind the HS-3 is that it can deliver both clean and driven tones that don't get muddy. So far that is what I've found with them. I guess...I want to get a bit more from my sound... and was wondering if a pedal could help drive the signal like a hotter pickup would? or if I have to choose between my current pickups or new ones if I want the sounds I described wink.gif

I agree with Staffy, if what I really want is full sized humbuckers, then I would find a different guitar for that sound.

I will look at my playing and compare other guitars on my rig and see also, (I have friend with a '78 les paul) cool.gif
I also have a 335, and an old solid body that may help.

Thanks everybody, this is an area I don't know much, about but I feel like I'm learning!


--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Dec 28 2009, 11:59 AM
Post #12


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



QUOTE (Hammerhead @ Dec 28 2009, 03:16 AM) *
i] and was wondering if a pedal could help drive the signal like a hotter pickup would? or if I have to choose between my current pickups or new ones if I want the sounds I described wink.gif [/i]


In terms of output a booster/overdrive can put the signal up to the same level as a humbucker, but not in terms of the TONE. If You shall manipulating the tone, you should rather go for a distorsion device/sonic enhancer like a maximizer or something similar that ADDS some overtones to the sound. A booster/overdrive just increases gain. But maybe thats all You need? You have to experiment a little here.... In my opinion, I dont think switching pick-ups will make that big difference since the one's You got is pretty hot..... unless You make a hole in the body and installs humbuckers of course. The technique aspect here is far more interesting, and the strings as I already mention. If I could afford it, I would have changed them every week! Even that they looks new, they loose the sound by just picking up particles from the air.. (my own theory.. laugh.gif ) But there is also these new strings, Elixir, that we discussed in another thread, try them!

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 28 2009, 01:16 PM
Post #13


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



Randall amp is perfectly capable of producing harmonics on it's own. And YJM strat is good enough guitar too. Just crank the gain, and try to find the sweet spot. It seems to me you didn't quite mastered the harmonics technique yet, they can be usually done anyway you like. Crank the gain and volume for sustain, and rehearse.


--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sensible Jones
post Dec 28 2009, 01:38 PM
Post #14


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 6.233
Joined: 2-January 09
From: London-ish. UK.
Member No.: 6.517



QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Dec 28 2009, 12:16 PM) *
Randall amp is perfectly capable of producing harmonics on it's own. And YJM strat is good enough guitar too. Just crank the gain, and try to find the sweet spot. It seems to me you didn't quite mastered the harmonics technique yet, they can be usually done anyway you like. Crank the gain and volume for sustain, and rehearse.

+1!!


QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Dec 27 2009, 05:36 PM) *
The low output singlecoils are the problem. More output will make harmonics easier and switching to a humbucker would make your sound even fatter and the harmonics even meaner but you would loose the clarity and the clean tones.

You have a stacked Humbucker in the HS-3 not single coils, therefore (even though they are lower output) you shouldn't need to replace it.
As already mentioned, with all the gear you have producing the Harmonics shouldn't be a problem. It's just a matter of finding hat 'sweet' spot!!
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


--------------------
I'd rather have a full Bottle in front of me than a full Frontal Lobotomy!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hammerhead
post Dec 28 2009, 03:41 PM
Post #15


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



Thank you all for your input!

Alright I'm going to practice, practice and practice my pinch harmonics wink.gif Listen for them in my next collaboration biggrin.gif I'm a "Tone Hound" and always looking for the best sounds. I'm sure I have the equipment I need, now it's up to me. I learned a lot through the thread so thanks again for all the help, you guys ROCK !!!

And as soon as I post my Festival Challenge I'll replace my strings!!! (by the way there is a nice review of the Sonic Maximizer in our GMC Library ;}

This post has been edited by Hammerhead: Dec 28 2009, 03:44 PM


--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hammerhead
post Dec 28 2009, 05:35 PM
Post #16


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



QUOTE (VictorUK @ Dec 28 2009, 05:25 AM) *
Uh i use a sonic maximiser but i dont really like it now, i'd sooner just crank the amp lol but its great for low volume i suppose.


I'd like to try one but not sure I want to spend a lot if I don;t keep it, if you don't like yours do you think you would want to sell it?


--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lian Gerbino
post Dec 28 2009, 07:41 PM
Post #17


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 4.426
Joined: 14-April 08
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Member No.: 4.895



QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Dec 27 2009, 05:03 PM) *
For those Zakk-wylde-Dimebag-Darrell types of harmonics you have to have lots of gain. And check that they both use humbuckers and high gain amps.

Check Slipknot's guitarist. He uses a Telecaster but he changed the pick ups to humbuckers. They really use pinched harmonics.

Jim Root Telecaster


wow, that´s an add! I don't like so much fender guitars, and less telecaster model. but he really got a great tone!
thank you!

btw, sorry for off topic! XD


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Dec 29 2009, 12:30 AM
Post #18


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



QUOTE (VictorUK @ Dec 28 2009, 07:44 PM) *
I need to keep it because it alters the hi-z input from my amps effect loop so it works well with my tc g-major and it does that even when its bypassed.


Hmmm, interesting... I also have a TC-major, but Im not using it cause when You put in between the guitar & amp, it simply steals the tone even in by-pass mode..... maybe it is an resistance issue, but TC-engineers could'nt have been THAT stupid.... What do You think???

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hammerhead
post Dec 29 2009, 07:43 AM
Post #19


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 426
Joined: 6-April 08
From: Maui
Member No.: 4.835



QUOTE (VictorUK @ Dec 28 2009, 03:51 PM) *
Well it has to have a balanced (i think) input and the effects loops of peavey 5150's are hi-z, i do believe the tc g-force hasnt got this issue due to it having hi-z inputs. i have been told to put the maximiser infront by people on the TC forums who know ALOT about this stuff.

look at the rear of the g-force
http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/GForce_Rear.jpg


WoW... Just when I thought I knew something... I will have to do some digging on all these pedlas and Hi-z inputs huh.gif I have a lot to learn !



--------------------
When I look down at my hands... I see "FINGERS of DOOM"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Dec 29 2009, 10:34 AM
Post #20


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



QUOTE (VictorUK @ Dec 29 2009, 02:51 AM) *
Well it has to have a balanced (i think) input and the effects loops of peavey 5150's are hi-z, i do believe the tc g-force hasnt got this issue due to it having hi-z inputs. i have been told to put the maximiser infront by people on the TC forums who know ALOT about this stuff.

look at the rear of the g-force
http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/GForce_Rear.jpg


Hmmm, they may be right bout this in Your case, but i still doesn't understand why they didn't put both balanced and hi-Z outputs on the device.... Since most guitars players tends to use effects before the pre-amp or the effects loop in most amps is Hi-Z, this seems like a construction error from my point of view. (even that TC otherwise make GREAT processors/devices)

It also seems strange to me that You shall use it in front of the TC if the loop in 5150 is Hi-Z??? It would have made more sense to use it after, since the balanced outputs from the TC are low-Z and the effects return on the 5150 is Hi-Z (if I got You ríght here, I never owned a 5150...) Anyway, using a maximizer to convert from lo-Z to Hi-Z sounds like overkill (and expensive), there must be an easier way to do it...
Maybe Tony knows how, or Zakk???

//Staffay

QUOTE (Hammerhead @ Dec 29 2009, 07:43 AM) *
WoW... Just when I thought I knew something... I will have to do some digging on all these pedlas and Hi-z inputs huh.gif I have a lot to learn !


Nah, its not so hard....
Basically, all guitars & basses have microphones with a hi-Z output that matches a hi-Z input on the amp. Line level signals (ot a normal microphone signal) are lo-Z. That means that You could not plug Your guitar straight into a recording console for instance (or a soundcard without hi-Z inputs, thats really why most people think computer amp simulators suck...) So before the pre-amp in a guitar amp the signal will be Hi-Z, and is preffered to be that all the way in terms of pedals etc. But in a studio environment the balanced lo-Z signals are preferred, so therefore some manufactorers adopted this to give the devices more options....

Something that is interesting here is also the fact that long guitar cables actually increases resistance and therefor changes the impedance of the guitar signal = it will drop towards lo-Z = it will sound wourse..... In order to fix this issue some manufactorers of guitar cables now sells "special" cables for 5 times as much as the regular one's claiming that it really matters.... (in fact it does, but not THAT much imo.)

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 27th March 2017 - 05:38 PM