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Sensible Jones
post Jan 21 2010, 12:54 PM
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As you may or may not know I've just started learning Reaper and associated bits to do with PC recording.

I imported a MIDI track into Reaper and split it into it's basic tracks, then I assign a VSTi to whichever track I want to hear it's fine, BUT when I do this to 2 or more tracks at the same time it starts 'bouncing' the sound or freezes up the PC.
Now for the questions!!!
1) Does this mean my Processor is not fast enough?
2) Can I replace my Processor for a quicker one?

The specs of my M/Board can be found HERE.

3) I only have 1G Ram but can install 2G with this Board, if I change the Processor will it be able to support larger RAM?

I know the main advice will be:-
'Don't bother with all that and buy a new PC/Mac!!' or whatever, but with the way Work is at the moment I won't be able to afford to do that until 2020!!!! biggrin.gif
Also, don't forget that even this PC was a big step up from my old faithful P3 486!!!!
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Boson
post Jan 21 2010, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Jan 21 2010, 12:54 PM) *
Also, don't forget that even this PC was a big step up from my old faithful P3 486!!!!



Was that the steam driven pc? laugh.gif

Actually though the best computer I ever had was a 386. Did everything I ever needed, never froze just kept on going.

Windows 7 and so on are getting far too big and cumbersome!

QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Jan 21 2010, 12:54 PM) *
As you may or may not know I've just started learning Reaper and associated bits to do with PC recording.

I imported a MIDI track into Reaper and split it into it's basic tracks, then I assign a VSTi to whichever track I want to hear it's fine, BUT when I do this to 2 or more tracks at the same time it starts 'bouncing' the sound or freezes up the PC.
Now for the questions!!!
1) Does this mean my Processor is not fast enough?
2) Can I replace my Processor for a quicker one?

The specs of my M/Board can be found HERE.

3) I only have 1G Ram but can install 2G with this Board, if I change the Processor will it be able to support larger RAM?

I know the main advice will be:-
'Don't bother with all that and buy a new PC/Mac!!' or whatever, but with the way Work is at the moment I won't be able to afford to do that until 2020!!!! biggrin.gif
Also, don't forget that even this PC was a big step up from my old faithful P3 486!!!!
laugh.gif


I am no expert with reaper but when a computer freezes it is sometimes a sign that it is struggling for resources. Another sign might be that there is a lot of disk activity as data is swapped back and forth to a temporary swap file.

You might find it useful to increase the memory. Your motherboard only has one slot and can take only 2GB. So you will need to ditch the memory that is currently in it and get a 2GB dmm. Shouldn't be too expensive. I find that ebuyer.com are very cheap and quick to deliver.

Changing the processor will not allow you to use more than the 2GB.

I'm trying to find out what minimum system reaper needs. Will get back to you if I find anything


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jan 21 2010, 02:04 PM
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May be wrong as I've never come across that cpu before but I guess that embedded means it can't be replaced as it is literally embedded/soldered on to the mobo. Had a quick look around and no one seems to offer a cpu upgrade for it.

Looking at spec it does look a bit underspec for serious audio work but I'm surprised that it can't handle two channels. Problem may be with the integrated onboard sound chip rather than the cpu itself.

A couple of suggestions:

1 - if you haven't already max out the ram - it will take a max of a single 2gB DIMM DDR2 677Hz
2- consider using a different audio card - you have USB 2 so maybe an external USB2 audio card.


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Sensible Jones
post Jan 21 2010, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE (Boson @ Jan 21 2010, 12:59 PM) *
Was that the steam driven pc? laugh.gif

Steam??? My god man, it was Pedal Powered!!!! laugh.gif
(Actually, it STILL IS!! It's the one I'm typing this on!!!!)

QUOTE (Boson @ Jan 21 2010, 12:59 PM) *
I am no expert with reaper but when a computer freezes it is sometimes a sign that it is struggling for resources. Another sign might be that there is a lot of disk activity as data is swapped back and forth to a temporary swap file.

You might find it useful to increase the memory. Your motherboard only has one slot and can take only 2GB. So you will need to ditch the memory that is currently in it and get a 2GB dmm. Shouldn't be too expensive. I find that ebuyer.com are very cheap and quick to deliver.

Changing the processor will not allow you to use more than the 2GB.

I'm trying to find out what minimum system reaper needs. Will get back to you if I find anything

As you can guess I'm no expert either!! When using the VST's it starts 'bouncing' when it gets to about 80-85% CPU usage.
Just to clarify this, Amplitube II will take it to 115%!!!! (Amplitube I works fine.)
I will definitely get a 2G Ram, I've just found one for £27 + P&P.
Reaper requires:- 500MHz, 128Mb Ram and Windows 98 or above. (I'm using XP Pro.)

When just recording over a backing track for a Collab or whatever it's fine. It's just when using the VST's.
Thanks for the advice!
biggrin.gif

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jan 21 2010, 01:04 PM) *
May be wrong as I've never come across that cpu before but I guess that embedded means it can't be replaced as it is literally embedded/soldered on to the mobo. Had a quick look around and no one seems to offer a cpu upgrade for it.

Looking at spec it does look a bit underspec for serious audio work but I'm surprised that it can't handle two channels. Problem may be with the integrated onboard sound chip rather than the cpu itself.

A couple of suggestions:

1 - if you haven't already max out the ram - it will take a max of a single 2gB DIMM DDR2 677Hz
2- consider using a different audio card - you have USB 2 so maybe an external USB2 audio card.

It was a cheap 'Bare Bones' system. I already had a SATA H/Drive that I'd bought by mistake. instead of an IDE one, and so just needed a RAM Card, which my Brother had the 1G one spare.
Unfortunately it was all I could afford at the time and as I said, it was still a Step up from "Ol' Faithful"!! biggrin.gif

1. I will be upping it to 2G soon. biggrin.gif
2. I did try using an M-Audio Fasttrack (which I got from Paal) but couldn't get it configured properly for some reason. Maybe I 'll try it again, as by doing all this messing about with it I'm starting to understand how to set things up and what I should be looking for etc!!
Thanks for the advice Tony!
biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Sensible Jones: Jan 21 2010, 02:22 PM


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MickeM
post Jan 21 2010, 02:31 PM
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I hade the same problems when I freed up a laptop to use as home studio, not the fastes CPU and not really Einstein when it comes to memory.

I had a lot of freeze accidents until I installed the extra RAM, can't recall if I have 2 or 4 GB. I think RAM is more important than CPU.

Later I switched to Samplitude 10 (that free magazine offer) and never went back to Reaper. I still suffer from it slowing up when I add too many VST and VSTi but it's not as bad as it was with Reaper.


About your motherboard, all I can say is that it's very colorful; so it must be good!
I'd start getting more RAM.

I can promise you that you will still run into the same problems, only it'll come later in the process. One has to smarten up using plugs, use small ones in sense of using up little RAM. Use Freeze on tracks and plugins to free up CPU. Render stem track in Reaper = Freeze

Plenty of additional work and workarounds for use with lousy computers but it's either that or get a brand new PC or Mac! wink.gif


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Sensible Jones
post Jan 21 2010, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Jan 21 2010, 01:31 PM) *
I hade the same problems when I freed up a laptop to use as home studio, not the fastes CPU and not really Einstein when it comes to memory.

I had a lot of freeze accidents until I installed the extra RAM, can't recall if I have 2 or 4 GB. I think RAM is more important than CPU.

Later I switched to Samplitude 10 (that free magazine offer) and never went back to Reaper. I still suffer from it slowing up when I add too many VST and VSTi but it's not as bad as it was with Reaper.


About your motherboard, all I can say is that it's very colorful; so it must be good!
I'd start getting more RAM.

I can promise you that you will still run into the same problems, only it'll come later in the process. One has to smarten up using plugs, use small ones in sense of using up little RAM. Use Freeze on tracks and plugins to free up CPU. Render stem track in Reaper = Freeze

Plenty of additional work and workarounds for use with lousy computers but it's either that or get a brand new PC or Mac! wink.gif

I was going to try Samplitude after Blindwillie sent me a copy but you have to be Intraweb connected to register it and that PC isn't Hooked up on t'Web. I have been looking for 'small usage' VST's and found a few. I have also found some that would freeze 'Deep Thought'!!! In particular a big 'Orchestral Strings' one and also a 'Church Pipe Organ' one!! They won't even open up on a track without freezing the PC!!
More RAM on the way!!!

'Freeze'? Is that a program or do you mean Disarm/Mute tracks when not in use?
I tried with a MIDI track of 'Comfrtably Numb', got the Bass on an it played. Muted it and did the Strings, muted both and did the Acoustic Guitar. tried playing all 3 together and it just wouldn't do it! Fine on singular tracks though! The Bass was just 4Front Bass which is tiny and only uses one Preset sound!!
biggrin.gif

If I go to a Fortune Teller i bet they tell me "I see a new PC or Mac in your future!!!" tongue.gif
laugh.gif laugh.gif


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MickeM
post Jan 21 2010, 03:11 PM
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Aha, it's that bad? The Freeze function would release the CPU from having to work with effect plugins that you have put on a track. When you freeze it it'll render a new track for you and you can mute the original that has fx and such.
But in your case, since you don't add effects even and your CPU dies on you after three tracks already... won't help.

Another thing that's helpful is to remove all the makeup, bells and whistles in Windows. I have my setup looking like Windows 3.11 but it's quicker. See if you can find a guide on the net on how to free up your PC, I found one that I used and it pealed off a lot of unuseful things.

Also if you can use an external HD for your song projects that's a plus .... or get a new Mac laugh.gif


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Sensible Jones
post Jan 21 2010, 03:32 PM
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I'll have a look for a Guide for that! I already removed all unnecessary programs from the Start-up etc so there's nothing running in the background!
Thanks for that Micke!!
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Daniel Robinson
post Jan 21 2010, 04:08 PM
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I am not exactly sure how to do it in Reaper, but there should be a setting for sample size. When you start using alot of vsti's and plugins you need a larger sample size. Generally the default is for 512 samples, if your computer isnt up to the task of doing real time then you need to increase the sample size to like 768, or whatever the next level of sample size is in reaper.

It should be in whatever reaper uses for audio setup. Just increase the sample size until the freezing and hiccups go away in increments


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Sensible Jones
post Jan 21 2010, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Robinson @ Jan 21 2010, 03:08 PM) *
I am not exactly sure how to do it in Reaper, but there should be a setting for sample size. When you start using alot of vsti's and plugins you need a larger sample size. Generally the default is for 512 samples, if your computer isnt up to the task of doing real time then you need to increase the sample size to like 768, or whatever the next level of sample size is in reaper.

It should be in whatever reaper uses for audio setup. Just increase the sample size until the freezing and hiccups go away in increments


Daniel

Thanks Daniel, I shall try this too!!
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Sensible Jones
post Jan 22 2010, 01:19 PM
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OK, slight update!

I have Reaper set to use ASIO, but when I switch it to use the internal Audio (Vinyl Deck) it doesn't freeze up as much when using the VST's on MIDI tracks BUT I get huge latency problems with the Guitar! Switch back to ASIO and I loose the latency but return to the original problem with the VST's!
huh.gif


Oh, and I can't seem to apply any VST to a drum track at all!!! Is there a special way of doing this?


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 22 2010, 03:42 PM
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Install more RAM is the only advice I can give you. Put in as much as RAM as your mobo can support. Then let us know how it went.


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Sensible Jones
post Jan 22 2010, 04:08 PM
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I will do Ivan! Hopefully be able to upgrade the RAM in the next couple of weeks.
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Daniel Realpe
post Jan 26 2010, 07:11 PM
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"Also if you can use an external HD for your song projects that's a plus .... "

this can be very helpful so you won't take up all the space in your internal hard drive,

audio can consume a lot of space


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