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Ibanex
post Feb 8 2010, 06:27 PM
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I was wondering what you guys think about the Bogner Alchemist. Are there any amps I should consider befor buying the Bogner (anything less than 1000€). Also what are the advantages of Head+Cab opposed to the Combo-Version? Thank you very much in advance.
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ZakkWylde
post Feb 8 2010, 08:09 PM
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It's a good amp but I can't say much more or suggest others if I don't know what you need it for and what styles you play!

A head an a cab will sound better because the cab is built for the perfect sound while the combo has to compromise and fit the amp into the same box. Also the head will a last little longer because the tubes in the combo get shaken arround more while the head is seperated from the speaker and picks up less vibrations...

The combo however is much easier to carry arround!


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Adrian Figallo
post Feb 9 2010, 03:15 AM
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That's true zakk, a cab is always better than a combo.

BUT, i do like better the sound of some combos, specially fenders. I got a marshall valvestate too, if i can remember it right it's a 8080 stereo chorus, and i like a lot too.

My point is, i had a jmc 800 head + cab which i love, and now i got this valvestate combo which i love too!
Find the combo sound a little bit more "manageable", not sure why.

Trust your ears, but if you are not sure about it, go for the head + cab wink.gif.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 9 2010, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE (VictorUK @ Feb 9 2010, 06:19 AM) *
I like the bogner alchemist but i heard it had a serial effects loop? that put me off it.


Dunno why tho, serial FX loop is not that bad solution, specially on lower priced tube amps.


Regarding Alchemist, I tried the combo version in the store, and didn't liked it that much, it sounded thin, harsh and grainy. Could be the tubes dunno, and my personal preference, so I advise you test it thoroughly in the store with your guitar.


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Ibanex
post Feb 10 2010, 07:32 AM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Feb 8 2010, 08:09 PM) *
It's a good amp but I can't say much more or suggest others if I don't know what you need it for and what styles you play!

A head an a cab will sound better because the cab is built for the perfect sound while the combo has to compromise and fit the amp into the same box. Also the head will a last little longer because the tubes in the combo get shaken arround more while the head is seperated from the speaker and picks up less vibrations...

The combo however is much easier to carry arround!


Some guitarists' tone I like: Vai (Lotus feet, Crying Machine,...), Gilbert (Straight through the telephon, Viking Kong,...), Eric Johnson (Cliffs of Dover) (although i'm not a big fender fan), Petrucci (change of seasons), Sanata, Satriani (Flying in a blue dream, Satch boogie, Surfing with the alien),...
(I don't expect the amp to be able to do all these tones perfectly.)

I change my mind on which one of them I like the most every day biggrin.gif

I read somewhere that the 2nd channel of this amp has a creamy, long sustain, bogner-typical sound. That's what caught my attention.

QUOTE (Adrian Figallo @ Feb 9 2010, 03:15 AM) *
That's true zakk, a cab is always better than a combo.

BUT, i do like better the sound of some combos, specially fenders. I got a marshall valvestate too, if i can remember it right it's a 8080 stereo chorus, and i like a lot too.

My point is, i had a jmc 800 head + cab which i love, and now i got this valvestate combo which i love too!
Find the combo sound a little bit more "manageable", not sure why.

Trust your ears, but if you are not sure about it, go for the head + cab wink.gif.


Would you say that i makes a big diffrence which cab you combine with the head? Is the bogner 2x12 cab for the alchemist really worth 400€?

QUOTE (VictorUK @ Feb 9 2010, 06:19 AM) *
I like the bogner alchemist but i heard it had a serial effects loop? that put me off it.


Very nooby question: Why is a serial FX loop bad (compared to a paralell)?
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 10 2010, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (Ibanex @ Feb 10 2010, 07:32 AM) *
Would you say that i makes a big diffrence which cab you combine with the head? Is the bogner 2x12 cab for the alchemist really worth 400€?

Very nooby question: Why is a serial FX loop bad (compared to a paralell)?

It makes a world difference. This is because guitar speaker is not at all like a regular audio speaker. The sound that comes out of a head is very harsh and trebly, and the speaker plays important role in shaping that tone. It produces the tone instead of reproducing it, thus adding a lot of it's character to the sound. This is just the speaker of course, but well made quality cabinet is important as well. You won't have the same sound in MDF cab, oposite to marine-grade ply for example.

Serial FX Loop can be regarded as bad because the "signal path is going directly through the loop" , as oposed to parallel one where the signal path splits and goes side-chained with the dry one. Usually people tend to believe that the serial is worse cause you don't have any flexibility/transparency, but this is not true. Poor design is poor design, regardless if it is serial or parallel. In fact, parallel is more complicated and needs big attention in order to keep the signal path non-affected in lower priced amps. With serial loop, things are more simple and less things to go wrong. For higher priced models, any loop is good and will not affect the tone if properly designed.


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Lian Gerbino
post Feb 10 2010, 05:21 PM
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well, I know Behemoth have use Bogner (not the alchemist tho.) in his last album, result is so good for me. in combination with other amps it could be amazing.
but, at the end, the style you play will determinate what amp is good for you.



This post has been edited by Lian Gerbino: Feb 10 2010, 05:22 PM


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mhskeide
post Feb 10 2010, 08:56 PM
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Wow...didn`t know Tomasz used his fingers on the bass...very punchy sound! Must be some badass big-muscled fingers biggrin.gif


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Ibanex
post Feb 11 2010, 06:55 PM
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Somehow not a single amp was mentioned in this thread other than the bogner alchemist... Does this mean there is no amp (in this price range: ca. 1000€) that can compete with it? That's hard to believe. smile.gif

So if you know any good amplifier for ca. 1000€ please just post it here. You will save me a lot of research time . Thank you!

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ZakkWylde
post Feb 11 2010, 07:14 PM
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It comes down to testing the amps in a store, we can only suggest some amps...
DON'T BUY AN AMP YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED BEFORE!

Orange:
http://www.thomann.de/de/orange_rocker_30_gitarrencombo.htm

Marshall:
http://www.thomann.de/de/marshall_jvm215c.htm (Mein Geheimtipp!)

Egnater:
http://www.thomann.de/de/egnater_rebel30_112.htm

Engl:
http://www.thomann.de/de/engl_screamer_50_...ncombo_e330.htm


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- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
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- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 12 2010, 12:03 PM
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I recommend that you try Blackstat HT Stage 60 Combo, here's a review:



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Sensible Jones
post Feb 12 2010, 06:23 PM
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You might like to look at the Ashton Blue Tongue 50W Combo:-


It is also available as a separate 100W Head and Cab (A matched Celestion Vintage 30 loaded 4x12).
I've played through this set-up and was really impressed by it!!!
HEAD
CAB
smile.gif smile.gif

This post has been edited by Sensible Jones: Feb 12 2010, 06:25 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 12 2010, 06:39 PM
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That's a really nice sound Jones! smile.gif


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Sensible Jones
post Feb 12 2010, 07:15 PM
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The Head/Cab version was the one I played when I went to 'research' the Bugera's a few weeks back!
That combo is available HERE for the really low price of £299!!!!

This post has been edited by Sensible Jones: Feb 12 2010, 07:22 PM


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Ibanex
post Feb 17 2010, 07:22 PM
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I just wanted to correct something that was described wrong in this post:
The Bogner Alchemist has a Parallel effects send/return with level control, not a serial FX loop.
Here are some two pictures of the back of the amp:




I also wanted to thank everybody for their help. In the end I decided that I will buy the bogner alchemist. I kept comming back to it...

Now there's only one question left:
Head or combo?
I think that the 1x12 Combo will fullfill all may expections volume-wise. But since I fell so deeply in love with the idea of having a mic'ed isolated cab, i want to keep the option of combining the amp with another cabinet. So my question is: Is it possible to mute the speaker in the combo and connect it with another cab?
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ZakkWylde
post Feb 17 2010, 07:36 PM
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Yes it is possible!
On your pictures you can see a cable going from the internal speaker to the 8 Ohm out. If you unplug this cable and connect a cab to the respective Ohm outputs you can use the combo with an external cab...
Just make sure you don't turn on the amp without it being connected to a speaker, it can damage the amp!


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Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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Ibanex
post Feb 18 2010, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (VictorUK @ Feb 17 2010, 10:02 PM) *
Is that the head? the head might be different but im sure the combo has a serial effects loop?


The pictures I posted previously are taken from the 212 version of the amp.
The combo and the head are identical feature-wise (except for the speaker(s) of course). But on bogneramplification.com i found this picture of the back of the amp. It says "FX loop" instead of "Parallel FX Loop". Maybe this is what created the confusion huh.gif ...
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Daniel Realpe
post Feb 20 2010, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE (Lian Gerbino @ Feb 10 2010, 05:21 PM) *
well, I know Behemoth have use Bogner (not the alchemist tho.) in his last album, result is so good for me. in combination with other amps it could be amazing.
but, at the end, the style you play will determinate what amp is good for you.


yeah I agree, in Behemoth's case it seems to fit perfectly for their style...


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helo92
post Feb 23 2010, 04:54 AM
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quick question: does this amp have enough gain for decent metal sounds??


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ZakkWylde
post Feb 23 2010, 02:51 PM
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The big custom made Bogners like the Uberschall or the Ecstasy are Metal machines! The Alchemist series however are aimed at a rock audience and won't do anything heavier than 80s Metal. Get a Peavey 6505+ 112 combo for a cheap tube metal amp (I just preordered mine)


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- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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