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> Fx - Individual Pedals Or Multi Fx
eaglesnh4
post Feb 13 2010, 12:04 PM
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Hi, i have been looking at this boss ME-70. now what i dont understand, if you had to buy every pedal individually which the boss has, it would cost a fortune. so howcome its so cheap, is it not as good sound quality? and is the sound quality better of the individual ones??



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ZakkWylde
post Feb 13 2010, 01:06 PM
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Ofcourse it is not as good as each individual pedal!
All the effects on the boss are digital but that doesn't mean they sound bad - they just don't sound as good as an expensive analogue version of the same effect. Those MultiFX pedals are for people who:

-Don't know which effects they like, so that they can experiment
-Use a lot of effects together (easily manageable on a multiFX)
-who just don't want/can spend a lot on diffrent FX pedals


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Feb 13 2010, 01:16 PM
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Part of the cost saving is that the manufacturer lowers their production cost:

everything is housed in one - albeit bigger - box; some components are shared; some don't have to be duplicated.

Part of the cost saving is, as Zakk says, because the multi here is based on COSM modeling and the software here is usually repeated in a number of differing units.

How good the MFX here depends to a great extent on how good the COSM is. I've not heard this one so can't say but Boss/Roland generally have a good reputation for their COSM modeling - more for the time based stuff than distortion though.


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eaglesnh4
post Feb 13 2010, 01:28 PM
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but overall individuals would be better if they were affordable?


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Fran
post Feb 13 2010, 02:00 PM
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I've got both that ME-70 unit and sepparate stomp boxes, and to my ears both sound just great.

ME-70 is really handy as it has all the stuff you might need and then more packed in a compact unit. the sound is really good, and the quality of the effects is great. I've got a Boss CE-5, and to be honest I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that sepparate stomp and the chorus built in the ME-70. Then again, both are BOSS and thus sound similar (if not actually the same!).

But there are certain things that individual stomps have that just can't be achieved on the ME-70. For instance the distortion section on the ME-70 is able to recreate the sound of most famous BOSS stomps. If you choose "Metal" it simulates a Boss MT-2, but it lacks the parametric mids tweak, which is a very important feature in that pedal. The modelling of the MT-2 in the ME-70 is superb anyway, just not that as flexible as in the sepparate stomp. This doesn't happen with other less complex stomps such as DS-1 etc. as all knobs are there to be tweaked for those that only need level/tone/gain.


I use my sepparate stomps along with a tube amp, and use the ME-70 when I travel in the weekends because it's small & compact and I can just hook it up to any set of 2.1 computer speakers, Hi-Fi or headphones and play anywhere without carrying an amp.

Much to my surprise I used the ME-70 through my tube amp a couple weeks ago and it also sounded great.

One more thing to consider: when playing with sepparate stomps you have to tweak by hand all the pedals if you wish/need toa chieve different tones, which happens when you are playing different songs in different styles. I'm always playing covers of different bands and have to tweak the stomps a bit in between certain songs. With the ME-70 you can create different patches and instantly recall their settings, which is really convenient and impossible to od with a sepparate stomps.


What's more: if you like using lots of effects a sepparate-stomps board will eventually be really BIG, while the ME-70 packs loads of stuff in a small surface.


Just some ideas there smile.gif

One last thought: Even though sepparate stomps are and always will be better I believe that these days multi-fx units are really well built and a great inexpensive option to achieve a really nice tone.






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Staffy
post Feb 13 2010, 02:03 PM
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+1 on Zakk here. Of course individual units will be better, preferrable analogue ones with maybe exceptions for reverbs & delays. I rather have 2-3 good stomps than a multi-effect in the lower price segment, however there are some top notch ones, but they will cost You as much as a stack.... Regarding BOSS & Rolands COSM-modelling technique, I find very good comparing to the prize You pay, probably the best in its prize-range. But when it comes down to a decision the ear must be the judge!

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sted
post Feb 13 2010, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (eaglesnh4 @ Feb 13 2010, 12:28 PM) *
but overall individuals would be better if they were affordable?


Ive been down the multi route mate, its a nice and easy and affordable way of getting effects, I had a pod xt live and it was pretty god, however it does have limitations in terms of tone and such, it really depends on your other gear, if you have top line guitars and amps then the boss will just be a weak link in your chain. If your gear is more middle of the road stuff then a decent digital floorboard will be fine.
Ive now gone over to stomps because they really do sound much, much better and they really hold their own in live situations too where you can really tell the difference.
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Staffy
post Feb 13 2010, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE (Fran @ Feb 13 2010, 02:00 PM) *
One more thing to consider: when playing with sepparate stomps you have to tweak by hand all the pedals if you wish/need toa chieve different tones, which happens when you are playing different songs in different styles. I'm always playing covers of different bands and have to tweak the stomps a bit in between certain songs. With the ME-70 you can create different patches and instantly recall their settings, which is really convenient and impossible to od with a sepparate stomps.


Hehe Fran... this is what I really see as a drawback of multieffects, since Im constantly tweaking the boxes when playing live, with a multi it will take forever to find the right parameter to adjust... But if set up properly, it might work for most people, but i guess I'm not of them... tongue.gif


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Fran
post Feb 13 2010, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Feb 13 2010, 02:07 PM) *
Hehe Fran... this is what I really see as a drawback of multieffects, since Im constantly tweaking the boxes when playing live, with a multi it will take forever to find the right parameter to adjust... But if set up properly, it might work for most people, but i guess I'm not of them... tongue.gif


Yeas, that's so true with many multi-fx units out there. I hate tweaking effect parameters on my POD (unless I'm using gearbox on my computer).

But the ME-70 actually works like a sepparate stomp box pedalboard in that regard. It has each "stomp" placed there with its knobs, there's your distortion with its own knobs, modulation with its own knobs... and delay, and more. You step on them indiviadually to turn on/off. I love my sepparate stomps and purchased the ME-70 because it's the closest thing I've seen. So easy to use you don't even really need the manual unless you wish to dig deep in some options which I don't even care about laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Fran: Feb 13 2010, 02:15 PM


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mhskeide
post Feb 13 2010, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (sted @ Feb 13 2010, 02:06 PM) *
Ive been down the multi route mate, its a nice and easy and affordable way of getting effects, I had a pod xt live and it was pretty god, however it does have limitations in terms of tone and such, it really depends on your other gear, if you have top line guitars and amps then the boss will just be a weak link in your chain. If your gear is more middle of the road stuff then a decent digital floorboard will be fine.
Ive now gone over to stomps because they really do sound much, much better and they really hold their own in live situations too where you can really tell the difference.


I actually have the same question as the topicstarter here, regarding a BOSS gt-8 vs. several stomps varying in quality from boss to MXR/exotic.

I play through an Ibanez S Classic (prestige-quality) and Carvin strat-model through a Peavey Classic 30...will the GT-8 be a weak link then or will it do the trick? Distortion wice, my Peavey will handle most of it except some heavyleads with FX (Sambora solos for example), but I`m not sure on the rest.


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newguyatgmc
post Feb 13 2010, 07:06 PM
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Talking about multieffects. Has anyone used the Native instrument Kontrol multieffect. I think it would be good cause most of us use guitar rig and the hardware can easily complement the software. Does anyone know about that multieffect?

Oh I just found wallimans demo video for rig kontrol. I woulc prefer rig kontrol over most other just causd i love the software so much.

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fkalich
post Feb 14 2010, 07:03 AM
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A man who I admire, Albert Einstein, once said something that is meaningful to me..."keep things as simple as possible, but no simpler".

I have had multi effects, and I found using them to be unsatisfying. Part of this is philosophical. I feel that technology is sucking out the collective souls of modern man, and people don't even know it is happening. Using stomp boxes keeps me tied to past decades, and I feel to the flesh and blood and muscle and guts and sinew and neurons elements of musicianship, and perhaps insulated from dire effects resultant when you let modern technologies become too controlling a part of your existence. I do agree with Tony, the time based effects tend to be the best elements of these, not the distortion in all its variations (amp models).

Think of a great violinist. They use nothing but room acoustics. Which we have echo for. You don't need all the junk those things can do. All the swirly sounds, processed junk, just makes you sound artificial, and works against anything special you are doing with your fingers.

I have found that I get some very satisfying sounds from my small set of Boss pedals. Boss is nice, they are good about not sucking you tone out. I have 7, all I want. At a certain point you start losing your tone even with Boss boxes. And too much noise. Now I don't have much noise with my setup. But I don't set the distortion on high on the Metal Zone. I don't need to, I get the silky sustain I want because of the box that precedes it, and the box that follows it.

CS3-Compressor-->Metal Zone MT-2-->MODIFIED Super Overdrive SD-1-->Super Octave OC-3-->Super Shifter PS-5-->Digital Delay DD-7-->Loop Station RC-2

The modified SD-1 is my pride and joy, it is incredible, the sound that comes into it from the first two boxes sounds like crap to me, the modified SD-1 just smooths it out, makes it sound great. If sounds less distorted, but has all the qualities that distortion gives you. Just the harshness and shrillness is gone. Someone said that it is similar but better than that old Ibanez Tube Screamer that a lot of people like. Better than the older tube screamers, which are supposed to be the good ones (and expensive to pick one up). Some guy mods it on ebay, cost me $80. I am not sure what it does, I just know without it, I would not like my sound nearly as much.

I use an expression pedal on the DD-7, and have another expression pedal for the Super Shifter. I have a dual FS-6 switch for the RC-2, which actually makes it superior to their higher priced unit.

I still have a wah, a Crybaby Classic with the Red Fasel, which is a nice wah, but noisy. Maybe all good wah wah pedals are noisy, just comes with the turf. Every time I hook it up, I just think I don't need it, not worth adding a complication. I only used it for tone modification, and I get enough good tones with what I have, so I am going to just sell it. I always find it spiritually uplifting to part with something I really don't need.

I just think you can come up with something you are much more satisfied with using stomp boxes if you experiment. I never found a sound I was satisfied with using a multi effects. Yes it will cost you more to find a good set of stomp boxes. You might get that multi box, it is not real expensive, while you gradually build up a set of stomps. I would not get a $500 multi, if I were to get one, I would get one like the ME-70, and consider it temporary, until I can build up a set of individual stomps.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Feb 14 2010, 07:41 AM
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 14 2010, 12:15 PM
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For me, a good quality pedal is very important, and I'm generally against ME units, but I would sure like to use this Boss one, I'm sure the quality is very satisfying on solid state/hybrid amps, and you pay only a fraction of a cost that these pedals would normally go for, so yeah, it's a pretty good buy. For the money you get more definitely.
I learned a long time ago that if you want top notch device, you won't pay it with the same quality/price ratio as with some lower priced model, which will be better in this regard. In the hi-end range, prices are very high, and just for the sake of that very small bit of great quality (that not many people will hear the difference btw) people are willing to pay some astronomical figures. Simply - the most recent technology always comes at inflated price, and if you want to play the hi-end game you should have a budget for it. If you need something satisfying that you can use and actually have benefit that will justify the costs, something cheaper must be bought. Cheaper is not always worse, in fact, the very best effects sound terrible when not used properly. So any kind of gear in the hands of a good and creative persona will shine through.


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sted
post Feb 14 2010, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Feb 13 2010, 03:43 PM) *
I actually have the same question as the topicstarter here, regarding a BOSS gt-8 vs. several stomps varying in quality from boss to MXR/exotic.

I play through an Ibanez S Classic (prestige-quality) and Carvin strat-model through a Peavey Classic 30...will the GT-8 be a weak link then or will it do the trick? Distortion wice, my Peavey will handle most of it except some heavyleads with FX (Sambora solos for example), but I`m not sure on the rest.


In all honesty mate its the old analogue v digital argument all over again, in some multi effect units you can put in a pure analogue signal which will then be converted to didgital, processed and then re converted back to analogue, unless you have military grade components some of your character will be lost, no doubt. If you play the kind of music that can handle this sort of treatment, ie heavily compressed metal tones then its all fine, but if you play stuff that really relies on tone purity then it can be a disaster. I find that many of the multi units never make it out of the bedroom so simply arent designed for heavy loads in a live situation, whereas my ocd sounds amazing at higher volumes through the clean channel of my Boogie.
I dont think they are as covenient as everybody thinks either, depending on where im playing i can rwach down and tweak the pedal im using in less than a second if the sound doesnt suit the room, I wouldnt like to try and do that with a pod xt on a dark pub stage surrounded by drunks!
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 14 2010, 02:09 PM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Feb 13 2010, 04:43 PM) *
I actually have the same question as the topicstarter here, regarding a BOSS gt-8 vs. several stomps varying in quality from boss to MXR/exotic.

I play through an Ibanez S Classic (prestige-quality) and Carvin strat-model through a Peavey Classic 30...will the GT-8 be a weak link then or will it do the trick? Distortion wice, my Peavey will handle most of it except some heavyleads with FX (Sambora solos for example), but I`m not sure on the rest.


I agree with sted on this one, it really depends on the "trick" you are after. Stomps are good for live playing, and for loud playing, and lower priced processors are not. GT8 is to me a lower priced processor, and although it is great for home recording and practicing, it won't behave that good on the stage. If you have the chance I advise you to consider Roland VG88 or VG99 if you have the money. WIth those units you can go straight into mixer and play like that, they can be used for live gigs effectively (if you don't mind the inevitable limitations of digital devices). It's best to test it in the store, take some good stomps, and compare the same sound on GT8 for example. Try to play as loud as possible. You will know what to choose.


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