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> Guitar And Drum Micing For A Live Gigg.
Gilmore
post Feb 15 2010, 03:57 PM
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Hi there.

My band is about to play their first gigg next weekend. It´s friday and saturday nights 3 - 4 hours each night in a fairly large pub/club.

I have Marshall DSL50 and I was wondering if I should use my SM 57 to mic the amp to the PA or not?

Also I had an argument with the drummer, because he thinks 3 dynamic mics are enough to mic the whole drumkit and it´s fairly large kit. He only owns 3 mics for this, and I told him to go out and buy at least 2 more. He is just going to put a mic in the bass drum and then 2 mics to the left and right of the set, and NO mic on the snare drum. I´m afraid that´s not going to cover it. I´ve read many articles about this and most drumers use at least 3 - 4 dynamics and 2 condenser for overhead. mad.gif

Other gigging tips are preaciated right now if you have any. smile.gif



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MickeM
post Feb 15 2010, 04:18 PM
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Three mikes for a drumkit is the minimum. One inside the kick and two overhead would be my way, but rather close to the set to avoid to much leakage from other instruments. And maybe directed away from the other sources. More mikes are of course better.

Good mikes are quite expensive so it's difficult for me to see how one can demand for someone else to buy them. I can see how he's not too keen on it. How about you all chip in, good quality recording maybe is a band issue rather than the drummers problem?
Write them off on 3 years, then it's easy to see their value incase someone leaves the band or enter it and you have to buy out or claim for a new member to chip in.


And if he has more mikes than the rest of you he can always demand that you get at least twenty mikes for a 4x12 and place them on various distance, position and angles on each and every speakers wink.gif


EDIT: If it's a large stage it can be neccessary to mike everything to keep monitors since hearing the others can be very difficult, close to impossible. On a small cozy stage where you set things up in a "practice room" situation I don't see it's needed.
If it's a large room where there are speakers in the ceiling in the back of the room I think eveything should go into the PA. Often the same venues where you need monitors.
All from my own gigging experience which ofc is less than many others here who can tell you more. smile.gif


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Daniel Realpe
post Feb 15 2010, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Gilmore @ Feb 15 2010, 03:57 PM) *
Hi there.

My band is about to play their first gigg next weekend. It´s friday and saturday nights 3 - 4 hours each night in a fairly large pub/club.

I have Marshall DSL50 and I was wondering if I should use my SM 57 to mic the amp to the PA or not?

Also I had an argument with the drummer, because he thinks 3 dynamic mics are enough to mic the whole drumkit and it´s fairly large kit. He only owns 3 mics for this, and I told him to go out and buy at least 2 more. He is just going to put a mic in the bass drum and then 2 mics to the left and right of the set, and NO mic on the snare drum. I´m afraid that´s not going to cover it. I´ve read many articles about this and most drumers use at least 3 - 4 dynamics and 2 condenser for overhead. mad.gif

Other gigging tips are preaciated right now if you have any. smile.gif

it depends on how big the place really is...but just in case, mic the amp...

3-4 hours a night! what are you guys gonna play?


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Damir Puh
post Feb 15 2010, 04:53 PM
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Mic the amp! You'll cut more through the mix if your tone comes from multiple sources (amp and PA). Bare in mind the guitar tone is very "vulnerable" in terms of dispersion and reflection of sound - 3 or 4 rows of people in front of you, and your sound gets dampened so much, the people in the back rows will have trouble to hear you (unless you are really turned up cool.gif ). Plus, you can always cut the PA signal a bit if it sounds "too much". smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 15 2010, 05:25 PM
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It depends on how big the place where you are going to play is. Sometimes when the local is small you don't need overheads mics because the cymbals use to sound very loud. If the locals are big the problem is that you should mic everything. I mean at least kick drum, snare, toms and two overheads.
Regarding the guitar amp you must use the SM 57 if you have it. It's one of the best mics for guitar amps and it's very used live.
I also think that you could send a bass line to the console if you have enough channels. This will allow the sound technichian to have a better control of the total mix.


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Staffy
post Feb 15 2010, 06:14 PM
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In my opinion the over-heads mics is the one's of less importance, I'd rather mic the snare and the toms instead since there gonna be a leakage in those from the hi-hat & cymbals anyway. (if the sound-tech doesnt use gates of course) But it really depends on how large the venue is. Treble frequecies travels much faster throught the air than bassy ones - hence the low frequencies is the one that needs amplification the most. Other things to regard as important is that if You put some mics on guitar & drums, the bass must also be in the P.A system as well as all the other instruments. And there is the next problem - can the P.A handle a full instrument setup without destroying the quality of the vocals? Since the vocals is what people really listening to in the first place, this is very important. I've been on a lot of gigs that would have been great, IF You could hear what the singer sings..... which is often the case when the rig is too small....
But of course, that is often a matter of the sound-engineers skills as well....

//Staffay


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Emir Hot
post Feb 15 2010, 07:12 PM
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I always mic my amp if the venue is 200 or more people. I usually use Shure SM57 for miking the amp. It is also good to mike drums. for normal kit (kick, snare, 2 or 3 toms) 4 mics would do a good job. One in the kick drum, one on the snare and 2 overheads. If the venue is less than 200 people then you might not need that much but at least snare and kick drum will improve the sound.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 16 2010, 05:11 PM
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You didn't mention what mics does the drummer has and how big is the place.. Regardless of that, I believe you are both wrong, and shouldn't be arguing about anything like that.
Generally it depends on the size and shape of the venue and the PA system there, but let's say the club can hold anywhere from 200-500 people. In that case, cymbals will be heard anyway. The main things to mic are kick, snare and toms. You can put one mic for both snare & hihat, closer to the snare rim, and one mic between the toms. This will get you covered. Placing 2 mics as OH would be a waste, specially if they are dynamic ones!
As for guitar, you need to mic it up, and don't overdo with the volume on stage, let the sound tech handle it on PA.
Bass player should go into DI and straight into mixer, but if the amp has line out, he can use that too.

I couldn't agree more with Staffay regarding vocals. They are often treated last on rehearsals and often neglected. Try to put vocals in your face, and DONT crank the PA system too much. It would do no one good. I've been on one too many places where they play WAY too loud music, it spoils the whole fun sad.gif

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Feb 16 2010, 05:12 PM


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Gilmore
post Feb 17 2010, 11:40 AM
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Thank you all for the tips...it was very useful.

I think we have everything in order now. No more arguments. smile.gif

The place is a medium sized club...mabye 200 - 300 people...i´m not sure. But i´m not expecting so many to show up. It will be a practice gigg for us. We are playing classic rock numbers and mabye some originals from us.

I have 2 condenser mics.....won´t we benefit anything using them as overheads?


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 17 2010, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (Gilmore @ Feb 17 2010, 11:40 AM) *
Thank you all for the tips...it was very useful.

I think we have everything in order now. No more arguments. smile.gif

The place is a medium sized club...mabye 200 - 300 people...i´m not sure. But i´m not expecting so many to show up. It will be a practice gigg for us. We are playing classic rock numbers and mabye some originals from us.

I have 2 condenser mics.....won´t we benefit anything using them as overheads?

Could you tell me again please exactly what you all have from mics? I got a bit confused now, since you didn't mention you have 2 condensers before, all you said, drummer has 3 mis and you have 1. biggrin.gif
Also, are you sure that the club isn't providing some microphones as well??


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Gilmore
post Feb 17 2010, 03:44 PM
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Sorry if I sound confusing.

We have 3 drum mics, one is specially for bass drum and other two regular I guess, but those are mics specially for drums don´t remember the brand. And I have also 2 condenser mics that I thought of we can use for overheads. But mabye that´s not necassary.

Then I have SM57 for my amp, and we have of cource mics for vocals. Bass amp has direct line out to the PA.

I think we can make this work, and even better if the club has something we can use.



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Crazy_Diamond
post Feb 17 2010, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Feb 17 2010, 06:58 AM) *
Also, are you sure that the club isn't providing some microphones as well??


This is exactly what I was thinking.... Usually in the club where there is some bands live they have a whole bunch of microphone and the tech is going to help you fixed them all.




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Gilmore
post Feb 18 2010, 09:23 AM
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We have everything we need now, and I´m sure the club has something we can use also.

I let you know how it goes, mabye some videos. smile.gif

Thank you for the help. smile.gif







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