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> Cabinet Question, for bass
mhskeide
post Mar 3 2010, 10:35 PM
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Hi guys

Since my band is doing quite well these days, I`m planning to buy an Ampeg 15" cabinet to further improve my stack and make it more than decent for gigging. I`m currently standing between the Ampeg B-115 E and the classic SVT-115 E. But there is a thing that confuses me a bit.
They have summarized some of the features of the B-115E and SVT-115E, and the articles says the following:

B-115E:
Baltic Birch Plywood
2" Swivel Casters
...pair it with an amp that can drive it to its potential, like the B2-RE...

SVT-115E
¼” and Neutrik Speakon® Jacks
Baltic Birch Plywood
2” Swivel Casters
....Team it up with the SVT-CL head and maybe an SVT-12HE, for top-end,...

Why are there mentioned inputs as feature on the SVT? How the heck else do I connect the B115 to my amp?
And since the svt115E is suggested to be paired up with a 12" while the B115 is just suggested to be paired with a decent amp, does this mean that I should choose the SVT-115E since I`m aiming for a stack containing og 115 and 210 cabs? Btw, my bassamp is a Markbass 500W

I know this is basicly a question for a bass player, but I`m giving it a shot anyways smile.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Mar 3 2010, 10:48 PM
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Hmm I really don't know the differences between these two cabs. Which one is cheaper? I can see that B-115E seems lighter and that is very important to me when choosing cabs (you have to carry it to gigs)... Neutrik connectors are mentioned because they are high quality - I guess for marketing purposes. They are not that important. Have you thought about other Cabs for that markbass head? I can recommend Eden and Hartke cabs - they work really well!

I think you should try out these two ampeg ones since I guess they are voiced to go well with certain Ampeg heads...


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JVM
post Mar 3 2010, 10:54 PM
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All I have to say is..



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Mar 3 2010, 10:56 PM
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Neutrik generally make reliable audio leads and jacks. Speakon are a twist lock high quality speaker input.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 3 2010, 11:01 PM
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Speakon is Neutrik's patent, so this is why they mention it, here's comparison with standard 1/4 jack plug:



Both can be used for connecting with source, of course Speakon is more quality one, but you can do without it no problem.

I would advise you to get a smaller cab, it's lighter, and the performance is nearly the same.

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Mar 3 2010, 11:01 PM


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mhskeide
post Mar 4 2010, 12:43 AM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Mar 3 2010, 10:48 PM) *
Hmm I really don't know the differences between these two cabs. Which one is cheaper? I can see that B-115E seems lighter and that is very important to me when choosing cabs (you have to carry it to gigs)... Neutrik connectors are mentioned because they are high quality - I guess for marketing purposes. They are not that important. Have you thought about other Cabs for that markbass head? I can recommend Eden and Hartke cabs - they work really well!

I think you should try out these two ampeg ones since I guess they are voiced to go well with certain Ampeg heads...


b115 is almost half the price...

Eden cabs are a bit too expensive for my budget, and I see that Hartke`s cabs are either too expensive, or in the same pricerange as the ampeg b-115E.

...I also had to admit, I`m kinda keen on the idea with matching 115 and 210 cabinet. tonewise, I`m not too demanding. My Markbass sounds good trough the ampeg 210, and while playing in my main band, I have a solid fuzz as well biggrin.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 4 2010, 02:34 AM
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Matching 115 and 210 for a complete bass tone is definitely a cool option. I advise you once again to be careful about the bulkiness and weight of the rig. It's good to have a good sound, but after a gig, it's not cool when you have to carry it home! smile.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Mar 4 2010, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Mar 4 2010, 12:43 AM) *
b115 is almost half the price...

Eden cabs are a bit too expensive for my budget, and I see that Hartke`s cabs are either too expensive, or in the same pricerange as the ampeg b-115E.

...I also had to admit, I`m kinda keen on the idea with matching 115 and 210 cabinet. tonewise, I`m not too demanding. My Markbass sounds good trough the ampeg 210, and while playing in my main band, I have a solid fuzz as well biggrin.gif


I see. Then price tells a lot. But keep in mind that both cabs are very good quality! Matching 115 with 210 cab is a great idea (I'm also on the lookout but for the 210 cab). Since you allready have ampeg 210 then its a good idea to get the ampeg's cab for 1x15...From which series does 210 come from?? Possibly you could get the same for 1x15. (series-model etc)..
I would go for the cheaper b115 - it will work well! smile.gif


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mhskeide
post Mar 4 2010, 10:56 AM
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My 210cabinet is an SVT, at least I`m 90 % sure of it biggrin.gif
Also I have blown both a speaker and the tweeter, so only one of a total of three speakers are stock

And I saw from Thomann`s site that the difference in weight is only 1 kg.
I`ll probably order the cab as soon as the money from my previous guitars hit my account smile.gif

This post has been edited by mhskeide: Mar 4 2010, 10:59 AM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 4 2010, 12:24 PM
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Tell us please how the purchase went! smile.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Mar 4 2010, 02:49 PM
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I see! Then I think you should get a SVT 115 cab to match it...But be careful, you have the powerful head - see if cabs and ohm values fit and are able to support the needed power.

QUOTE (mhskeide @ Mar 4 2010, 10:56 AM) *
My 210cabinet is an SVT, at least I`m 90 % sure of it biggrin.gif
Also I have blown both a speaker and the tweeter, so only one of a total of three speakers are stock

And I saw from Thomann`s site that the difference in weight is only 1 kg.
I`ll probably order the cab as soon as the money from my previous guitars hit my account smile.gif


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mhskeide
post Mar 4 2010, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Mar 4 2010, 02:49 PM) *
I see! Then I think you should get a SVT 115 cab to match it...But be careful, you have the powerful head - see if cabs and ohm values fit and are able to support the needed power.


I have to admit, I`ve never studied actually at which ohms my amp deliveres 500W, or what my cabinet can handle...kinda embarrasing unsure.gif
I have spent quite a lot of time this evening though, studying the topic

I`ve found out that my current cab is 8 ohms, which means my amp "just" provides around 300W. I also saw in another forum, that 15" cabs (or larger subs) sucks huge amounts of wattage from the amp, and that the head should at least be over 1000W to properly run a 15" cabinet. Any thoughts on this subject anyone please smile.gif ?


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MickeM
post Mar 4 2010, 10:13 PM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Mar 4 2010, 09:19 PM) *
I have to admit, I`ve never studied actually at which ohms my amp deliveres 500W, or what my cabinet can handle...kinda embarrasing unsure.gif
I have spent quite a lot of time this evening though, studying the topic

I`ve found out that my current cab is 8 ohms, which means my amp "just" provides around 300W. I also saw in another forum, that 15" cabs (or larger subs) sucks huge amounts of wattage from the amp, and that the head should at least be over 1000W to properly run a 15" cabinet. Any thoughts on this subject anyone please smile.gif ?

A combination of 12" and 10" would suit my own taste better. I think 15" tend to get very muddy, which in turn sound really bad . Maybe the reason, just like you say, these big speakers doesn't get driven as hard as they should?


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mhskeide
post Mar 4 2010, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Mar 4 2010, 10:13 PM) *
A combination of 12" and 10" would suit my own taste better. I think 15" tend to get very muddy, which in turn sound really bad . Maybe the reason, just like you say, these big speakers doesn't get driven as hard as they should?


Do they make 12" speakers for bass cabinets smile.gif ?
Yeah, that may be why!


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MickeM
post Mar 4 2010, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Mar 4 2010, 10:31 PM) *
Do they make 12" speakers for bass cabinets smile.gif ?

They sure do wink.gif
Our bass player has had - or has, I'm not so sure... who cares about thw bass players gear anyway laugh.gif - 10", 12" and 15" and I think his 12" sound the best.
Try running a compressor pedal, it did wunders to his sond


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 5 2010, 02:34 AM
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QUOTE (mhskeide @ Mar 4 2010, 09:19 PM) *
I have to admit, I`ve never studied actually at which ohms my amp deliveres 500W, or what my cabinet can handle...kinda embarrasing unsure.gif
I have spent quite a lot of time this evening though, studying the topic

I`ve found out that my current cab is 8 ohms, which means my amp "just" provides around 300W. I also saw in another forum, that 15" cabs (or larger subs) sucks huge amounts of wattage from the amp, and that the head should at least be over 1000W to properly run a 15" cabinet. Any thoughts on this subject anyone please smile.gif ?


You can drive any speaker with as little wattage as you want. Speaker can be driven by 1W and still produce plenty of dB (this is how speakers efficiency is determined as an example).
Regarding impedance matching, you should give us the impedance rating for your head and cab. Then we can possibly suggest what to get. I believe if you get the cab that is made for the same head, you don't need to worry, but still there can be complications. Sometimes manufacturers will put head with different impedance rated speaker to allow for upgrades later, I've seen it on both bass and guitar amps.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Mar 5 2010, 03:04 AM
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If you connect two 8 ohm cabs with a parallel connection you should have the load of 4 ohm on your amp head there fore it delivering full power.
These technical details tend to get confusing.
But as I haven't yet built a rig myself, I'm not sure how cabs watts calculate , I think they add up ?? Two cabs of 200 w ratting give 400 watts ? But head will deliver 500watts ? How that combines and will cabs be able to support extra output? smile.gif

Regarding speaker size, I think each bass rig needs 1x15 speakers - its like a standard. 1x15+2x10 (or 4x10) give you best from both worlds... 1x15 is regarded old school and give out a big bottom but as mentioned some say its muddy. Its because the speaker is huge and can't move fast enough to be more responsive and give out clear all the notes you want (when playing fast) smile.gif
There are 1x12 bass cabs (but are not that common), generally 12" speakers are for guitar cabs but tend to be in the middle between "both worlds" for bass players so they use them often.

Since you have the 2x10" cab already I would suggest 1x15" that way you should get the best sound (and best from both worlds). When used alone (only one cab/speaker) then 1x12 is a very good choice! wink.gif

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Mar 5 2010, 03:05 AM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 5 2010, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Mar 5 2010, 03:04 AM) *
If you connect two 8 ohm cabs with a parallel connection you should have the load of 4 ohm on your amp head there fore it delivering full power.
These technical details tend to get confusing.
But as I haven't yet built a rig myself, I'm not sure how cabs watts calculate , I think they add up ?? Two cabs of 200 w ratting give 400 watts ? But head will deliver 500watts ? How that combines and will cabs be able to support extra output? smile.gif

Regarding speaker size, I think each bass rig needs 1x15 speakers - its like a standard. 1x15+2x10 (or 4x10) give you best from both worlds... 1x15 is regarded old school and give out a big bottom but as mentioned some say its muddy. Its because the speaker is huge and can't move fast enough to be more responsive and give out clear all the notes you want (when playing fast) smile.gif
There are 1x12 bass cabs (but are not that common), generally 12" speakers are for guitar cabs but tend to be in the middle between "both worlds" for bass players so they use them often.

Since you have the 2x10" cab already I would suggest 1x15" that way you should get the best sound (and best from both worlds). When used alone (only one cab/speaker) then 1x12 is a very good choice! wink.gif


I agree with Bogdan, just want to add that power is distributing to speakers evenly if the impedance is properly matched. So:

if there are 8Ohm series speakers with 200W each, amp can push 400W @ 16Ohm
if there are 8Ohm parallel speakers with 200W each, amp can push 400W @ 4 Ohm

Anything above 400W can damage the speakers, so it is not recommended to have more watts on the amp then on the speakers. You can do it, but you have to be careful with volume knob then. Another important thing is to know that you can have 1000W cab and have 200W amplifier and it will still work no problem, infact you won't notice that much loudness decrease, since power rating is not = decibels.


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