Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Demo Drum Sound, Need Opinions!
The Uncreator
post Mar 8 2010, 01:19 AM
Post #1


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



So lately I've been building a custom kit in Steven Slate Drums, I'd like to know your opinion on it as of now. I've never done this before so any and all suggestions I am open too.

So, You also must know that I am looking for that beefy metal sound. Kicks have a lot of "oomph" to them, and I love that deep tom sound. Which brings me to my next point, let me know how the toms sound. I am big on fills and would like to know how to spice things up with them.

For those that have SSD and are more experienced with it I am using this basic setup. cymbals I am still exploring so I am just putting up the "jist" of it. I am mostly happy with the way the cymbals sound and are mixed, but let me know if that could be improved as well.

Kick 5
Snare 10
Maple Tom 1
Qik Tom 2
Qik Tom 3
Qik Tom 4


PS

If the kick seems a bit too present in the mix, it doesn't seem that way when I add guitars and vocals and all that. Its a bit more in the mix so it doesnt get drowned down by the guitars. Oh and also, the last bar is just for fun tongue.gif
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Drum_Demo.mp3 ( 975.96K ) Number of downloads: 112
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 8 2010, 03:20 AM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



It's hard to give the judgment without hearing it in song context, but I can say that kick and snare are definitely way to strong. In the mix, they will be the only thing that is coming out.


--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Mar 8 2010, 07:52 AM
Post #3


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



Agree to what Ivan just said. It's really hard to judge without having the rest of the music, but I think that in a mix they must probably be EQ'ed some - they simply sounds too "fat" and will sound muddy in a mix. I didn't like the cymbals or the hat, but I haven't heard many other I like either - except for real ones played live. But I think they will fit into Your music very well, since I heard a lot of it, even that I personally prefer a drum sound that is more "natural". Also, I think they must be programmed with more random velocity since a drummer doesn't really CAN play with that accuracy in the attack - but that is also how one wants it to sound, I guess You know what I'm talking bout.
smile.gif

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
audiopaal
post Mar 8 2010, 08:38 AM
Post #4


Competitions Coordinator - Up the Irons
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 5.447
Joined: 17-February 08
From: Stavanger, Norway
Member No.: 4.276



Kick and Snare is a bit too loud.
But I do like the sound of the Kick, and I don't believe it will sound muddy in the mix at all really...
If so you can just remove some bass frequencies and tweak the eq accordingly.

The Snare I'm not too keen about, sound a bit static...
You could try a more open snare or give it a tad of reverb while turning the volume down a bit.

Saying the sound is good or not good is hard when not in context (with music),
because if you listen the drums on the new Dream Theater album by themselves they sound strange,
but in the mix they sound absolutely awesome smile.gif

Post a song with these drums, and I can give you a more accurate opinion about the sound smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Mar 8 2010, 04:57 PM
Post #5


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



Alright guys, I got 2 demos here with music mixed in with them. Kit has been changed around according to some suggestions, so let me know how this one is sounding.


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Drum_Demo_w_Mix.mp3 ( 692.7K ) Number of downloads: 86
Attached File  Drum_Demo_w_Mix2.mp3 ( 950.65K ) Number of downloads: 86
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Mar 8 2010, 05:28 PM
Post #6


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.383
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



I miss the hi-hat/cymbals a bit in the mix, I must admit, but I like the sound of the drums none the less.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Staffy
post Mar 8 2010, 10:38 PM
Post #7


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 2.294
Joined: 18-June 09
From: Genarp, Sweden
Member No.: 7.291



As I said before, I think the sound fits the Your type of music very well. I'm not really into this kind of stuff, so I can't really compare to anything, but I think it sounds good. I also, like Cael, think that the hats/cymbals can be lifted up a little bit in the mix. But its just a level issue. I think it's gonna be a cool recording, so just keep rockin' !!

//Staffay


--------------------


Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60
Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2
Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
audiopaal
post Mar 9 2010, 12:25 AM
Post #8


Competitions Coordinator - Up the Irons
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 5.447
Joined: 17-February 08
From: Stavanger, Norway
Member No.: 4.276



I like the sound, but lift the cymbals a bit in the mix, and try to tweak the Toms some more.
They sound a bit "dull", maybe you'll be able to make them sound harder, like if the drum skins were a bit more loose smile.gif
Oh, and thweak the settings on the different drums in Kontakt (Humanize etc.) to make them sound a bit more lively.

Do that and you'll be having a great set of drums in no time smile.gif
Great guitarsound too, what are you using?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Mar 9 2010, 01:11 AM
Post #9


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



Im using a PODX3 Live for all guitar stuff. And then use Reaper for some post editing, EQ and stuff. In SSD I got most things on Humanize, and I have accented the bleed a bit, although It doesnt really show in context. I dont want to do it too much or else Ill kinda scramble the sound. I'll lift the cymbals and start to work on the toms some more.

Thanks guys! smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 9 2010, 02:11 AM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



Sounds good. Guitars can be better IMO, they are scattered over the range and clogging up the drums. You should try to mix the parts so that every part gets it's proper place in the mix. Simple example would be: if you use 200Hz-500Hz for guitars, try cutting everything else beside that, and on the drums, try cutting the whoel 200-500 area. Than start raising up slowly until you find some kind of a balance. That's the general idea and simplified example, the real game starts when you start adding all drum components separately, bass, keyboards, vocal...

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Mar 9 2010, 02:11 AM


--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
audiopaal
post Mar 9 2010, 10:48 AM
Post #11


Competitions Coordinator - Up the Irons
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 5.447
Joined: 17-February 08
From: Stavanger, Norway
Member No.: 4.276



QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Mar 9 2010, 01:11 AM) *
Im using a PODX3 Live for all guitar stuff. And then use Reaper for some post editing, EQ and stuff. In SSD I got most things on Humanize, and I have accented the bleed a bit, although It doesnt really show in context. I dont want to do it too much or else Ill kinda scramble the sound. I'll lift the cymbals and start to work on the toms some more.

Thanks guys! smile.gif

Ok, thanks smile.gif
The drums sound good so no need to tweak more there, except raising the cymbals a tad and a bit on the toms smile.gif
Ivan also have a few good suggestions! I'm not very good at the Hz stuff, so maybe Ivan can give a more in-depth explanation? biggrin.gif

Ivan: Please? biggrin.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Uncreator
post Mar 9 2010, 02:46 PM
Post #12


Fire Up The Blades, Moderator
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 8.933
Joined: 6-March 07
From: St. Petersburg, Florida
Member No.: 1.304



'Twould be much appreciated Ivan smile.gif

Not quite sure what you mean by 200-500hz for the guitars, are you referring to highpass?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 9 2010, 03:21 PM
Post #13


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



QUOTE (audiopaal @ Mar 9 2010, 10:48 AM) *
Ok, thanks smile.gif
The drums sound good so no need to tweak more there, except raising the cymbals a tad and a bit on the toms smile.gif
Ivan also have a few good suggestions! I'm not very good at the Hz stuff, so maybe Ivan can give a more in-depth explanation? biggrin.gif

Ivan: Please? biggrin.gif


I'm not an expert in this field either, just have mixing as my hobby wink.gif I don't really wanna go in-depth about it, there are tons of useful articles on the web about various mixing techniques. I can only point out to fundamental things and those are that every instrument has it's own operating frequency range. On it's own, the instrument may sound good, but the job of a mixing engineer is to combine all the instruments to sound good together. When recording something for example, you have 10-16 channels for regular rock configuration (drums, bass, guitar, vocal). Each of the channels is clashing with other channel somewhere on the range, and you have only one output range available to sum up all the individual channels. The whole point is to shape the ranges of individual channels so that they match with each other and leave room for everything to be heard loud and clear all the time. The critical range in which you should be careful is 100Hz-500Hz, since all of the instruments have some sound there. The highest energy of the mix is also around the 60-250 area. The art of mixing usually depends on knowing to make all the components work together in those areas. In most cases if you leave everything on default, something will choke, unless you payed extra care when placing microphones and making the sounds right. General practice is to record the instruments as rich as possible, so you have more space to work with. Often you will leave some crazy sounding guitar tone in the mix just because it sits well. If you play that same guitar sound on it's own, it sounds thin and terrible.
Here are some general guidelines:

1. Listen! Having a good monitor speaker system and good trained ear is crucial, without it, you will hardly make a good mix.
2. always use small step increments when mixing, whatever you do. The more extreme settings you use, the bigger are chances that somewhere else it will sound lousy.
3. when using EQ, try to cut more than you boost, since EQ adds noise as well.
4. Simple mix will often sound more effective than complicated one (in modern days we often forget that, when options are served "on the platter")
5. make instruments sound better together, don't make them sound good on their own, that's the whole point, and often neglected thing with beginners. If you don't do it like that, you will choke the mix.
6. Use the tools you know well, but remember that each mix is an art piece on their own. Don't fall into trap of relying on templates and presets.
7. Know the real gear as much as you can. An experienced mixing technician from the old days can easily work with new plugins, because he knows how the real stuff worked, so he can make the plugin work properly. But modern day mixing technician who doesn't know the analog world won't use the plugins effectively. Try to understand exactly what analog gear does and how it sounds in order to make the best of it.
8. Learn what compression is in-depth, it's among the most needed tools for mixing besides EQ.

hope this helps.









QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Mar 9 2010, 02:46 PM) *
'Twould be much appreciated Ivan smile.gif

Not quite sure what you mean by 200-500hz for the guitars, are you referring to highpass?


I'm referring to frequency range from 200Hz to 500Hz. Human ear can spot frequencies at a roughly presented range of 20-40000Hz, although the extremes of that range are mostly reserved for transient sounds that only color the fundamental tones that are usually in the 70-2000 area. Every note in the note system has it's own frequency, which is then colored by transients depending on the way the note is created and material used, by air, string or surface vibration etc..
Highpass is a filter that passes high frequencies and cuts down lower frequencies. Since I usually make a rough mix of everything and fine tune it later, I usually like to highpass guitars anywhere from 90-500Hz, since everything bellow that will clash with bass, kick and toms. After that I can polish it up as the chanenls are introduced bit by bit..

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Mar 9 2010, 03:22 PM


--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Mar 9 2010, 06:21 PM
Post #14


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



I like the drum sound in the clip no. 2. But hi hat and cymbals should be louder and also toms should have more different sound one to the other. Generally its a cool sound for metal drums, you are getting there.


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Daniel Realpe
post Mar 15 2010, 03:19 PM
Post #15


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.655
Joined: 11-October 09
From: Bogota
Member No.: 7.694



I'm actually pretty happy with the drum sound!

just find a good amp sound and you'll be set to go!

ok, one thing, in the blast beats, turn down the velocity in the snare some 15 points so that comes out more naturally


--------------------
Visit my:
INSTRUCTOR PROFILE

"If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music."
Gustav Mahler


Subscribe to my Youtube Channel here
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th March 2017 - 05:26 AM