Modes 101, Part 2 - The Theory
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 Jul 30 2008, 05:19 PM Post #2 GMC:er Group: Members Posts: 641 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Germany Member No.: 3.437 Hey guys I please need help with that topic because I am still stuck at one point which concerns generating the modes.I understood the one direction but not the other. Play the D-Mixolydian Scale !Ok, for that I have to ask myself which scale has D as it's fifth degree - if I find this out I know that I have to play this scale just beginning from the 5th note right?And here I am stuck...if I have D how do I get the Major Scale then....on which scale do I have to count backwards ? Sure on the D mixolydian scale but I don't know what the D mixolydianScale is yet at this moment and the whole reason of counting back was to find that out in the first place...Do you get me? I am confused...please help Or do I really have to learn the intervals of the modes by heart? I thought I didn't have to do that because of this detour of "what scale has D as is 5th degree" question.
 Jul 30 2008, 06:12 PM Post #5 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.710 Joined: 17-July 07 From: Norway Member No.: 2.337 QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Jul 30 2008, 06:49 PM) Thanks for the answer pal...well actually I know the major scale very well and I understand it's chords how they and major scales are constructed and stuff...the chords for scale lesson I understood 100% that's also the reason why I understood your argumentation of the progresssion you mentioned...so you are not right on this one...So you would say if I want to play d mixolydian I just play normal d major but keep in mind that I have to play the flattened 7th right?Then I have the Mixolydian mode in D...this is another approach than the counting back thing in Andrews lesson I am still not so sure about Oh, when you talked about counting backwards etc I thought you didn't know anything about scales Ok, well you see, that flat 7th will also result in a change of the chord progression.You will play the ordinary majorscale, but START at the 5th degree of it. This is because the fith degree has a flat 7.When you start there, you make that degree your first degree, also called modulating.When you start off at the mixolydian degree, you will have a different chord progression.So anyway, yes, you just start off with your mixolydian pattern instead of Ionian, or aeolian, or whatever.Meaning that your chord pattern will result in Maj min dim maj min min maj, OR mixo degree, aeolian, locrian, ionian, dorian phrygian and lydian.These are just the patterns, don't mind the name.Because of the flat 7, that's the chord's characteristic. Also, a flat 7 means the lydian degree. Therefore a D7 and Cmaj7 will work really well.Example of progression for mixolydian:D7, Cmaj7, Dmaj, cmaj? whatever you wish Edit:again I emphasize that you're just starting off with the 5th box in the majorscale. This is the Domiant or fith degree.Am I repetitive? lol. This post has been edited by kjutte: Jul 30 2008, 06:14 PM
 Jul 30 2008, 07:00 PM Post #6 GMC:er Group: Members Posts: 641 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Germany Member No.: 3.437 QUOTE (kjutte @ Jul 30 2008, 07:12 PM) Oh, when you talked about counting backwards etc I thought you didn't know anything about scales Ok, well you see, that flat 7th will also result in a change of the chord progression.You will play the ordinary majorscale, but START at the 5th degree of it. This is because the fith degree has a flat 7.When you start there, you make that degree your first degree, also called modulating.When you start off at the mixolydian degree, you will have a different chord progression.So anyway, yes, you just start off with your mixolydian pattern instead of Ionian, or aeolian, or whatever.Meaning that your chord pattern will result in Maj min dim maj min min maj, OR mixo degree, aeolian, locrian, ionian, dorian phrygian and lydian.These are just the patterns, don't mind the name.Because of the flat 7, that's the chord's characteristic. Also, a flat 7 means the lydian degree. Therefore a D7 and Cmaj7 will work really well.Example of progression for mixolydian:D7, Cmaj7, Dmaj, cmaj? whatever you wish Edit:again I emphasize that you're just starting off with the 5th box in the majorscale. This is the Domiant or fith degree.Am I repetitive? lol. Thanks lot man this way of thinking about how to generate the modes really helps me...Modes are really fascinating when you finally got the hang of it...suddenly the same tones of a c major scale you have been using for ages have an Irish feeling just because you play them in a different context with different progessions namely D-Dorian . Amazing...
 Jul 30 2008, 07:03 PM Post #7 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.710 Joined: 17-July 07 From: Norway Member No.: 2.337 QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Jul 30 2008, 08:00 PM) Thanks lot man this way of thinking about how to generate the modes really helps me...Modes are really fascinating when you finally got the hang of it...suddenly the same tones of a c major scale you have been using for ages have an Irish feeling just because you play them in a different context with different progessions namely D-Dorian . Amazing... Anytime, man! If you want more help, add me on msn: [email protected]
 Jul 30 2008, 07:08 PM Post #8 GMC:er Group: Members Posts: 641 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Germany Member No.: 3.437 QUOTE (kjutte @ Jul 30 2008, 08:03 PM) Anytime, man! If you want more help, add me on msn: [email protected] I have no MSN, unfortunately..I have ICQ and skype and a 3rd messenger would be overdone I've added you here at GMC though ! This post has been edited by Nighthawk: Jul 30 2008, 07:11 PM
 Jul 30 2008, 07:28 PM Post #9 Moderation Policy Director Group: GMC Instructor Posts: 10.459 Joined: 6-February 07 From: CT, USA Member No.: 1.167 QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Jul 30 2008, 02:08 PM) I have no MSN, unfortunately..I have ICQ and skype and a 3rd messenger would be overdone I've added you here at GMC though ! Regarding the original question ...Well, you could just know that D is the 5th degree of the G major scale, or you could work backwards using the major formula as follows:Formula is:2 2 1 2 2 2 1we know: _2_2_1_2_2_2_1 ? ? ? ? D So, to get the root we work backwards from the D and subtract 2 semitones, then 1, then 2, and 2.That gives us:D C B A GHence it is G major Now, I thought the same way as you about this when I first learnt about modes, but as DR has said, its not really an important point - its far more useful to learn the fingering for D mixolydian than to try and work out that it is a mode of G major - that piece of information is certainly useful but doesn't immediately help you play it. -------------------- Check out my Instructor profile Live long and prosper ... My Stuff:Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 BassAcoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 NylonEffects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBloodAmps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
 Jul 30 2008, 07:31 PM Post #10 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.710 Joined: 17-July 07 From: Norway Member No.: 2.337 QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 30 2008, 08:28 PM) Regarding the original question ...Well, you could just know that D is the 5th degree of the G major scale, or you could work backwards using the major formula as follows:Formula is:2 2 1 2 2 2 1we know: _2_2_1_2_2_2_1 ? ? ? ? D So, to get the root we work backwards from the D and subtract 2 semitones, then 1, then 2, and 2.That gives us:D C B A GHence it is G major Now, I thought the same way as you about this when I first learnt about modes, but as DR has said, its not really an important point - its far more useful to learn the fingering for D mixolydian than to try and work out that it is a mode of G major - that piece of information is certainly useful but doesn't immediately help you play it. I said degree of major just to illustrate, and make it less alien.Many mistake it and think it's a whole different scale to learn, but in fact you're just starting on another pattern.Agreedz0r Andrew?Edit: And I don't really get your meaning of this, because if you know the fingering of major (the 7 boxes) you also know the fingering of all the modes... This post has been edited by kjutte: Jul 30 2008, 07:32 PM
 Jul 30 2008, 07:40 PM Post #11 Moderation Policy Director Group: GMC Instructor Posts: 10.459 Joined: 6-February 07 From: CT, USA Member No.: 1.167 QUOTE (kjutte @ Jul 30 2008, 02:31 PM) I said degree of major just to illustrate, and make it less alien.Many mistake it and think it's a whole different scale to learn, but in fact you're just starting on another pattern.Agreedz0r Andrew?Edit: And I don't really get your meaning of this, because if you know the fingering of major (the 7 boxes) you also know the fingering of all the modes... Don't mistake boxes for modes - rather think of it as a freakish coincidence that they are the same, so you keep the concepts separate ...The best way to think of it IS as a different scale, but one that is related to the major scale, as a result of which, the boxes are reused. -------------------- Check out my Instructor profile Live long and prosper ... My Stuff:Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 BassAcoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 NylonEffects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBloodAmps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab

Posts in this topic
Andrew Cockburn   Modes 101   Apr 6 2007, 10:43 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (radarlove1984 @ Apr 6 2007, 09:47 ...   Apr 7 2007, 03:43 PM
Tank   QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 7 2007, 03:4...   Apr 8 2007, 10:40 AM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (Tank @ Apr 8 2007, 05:40 AM) Hiya ...   Apr 8 2007, 03:06 PM
crabman   Thanks Andrew. Good stuff, keep it coming   Apr 10 2007, 08:13 AM
Anastasio123   Wow its amazing how easy modes really are to under...   Apr 15 2007, 04:12 AM
Melinda   awsome Andrew, this makes sense   Apr 15 2007, 06:38 PM
Andrew Cockburn   Thanks all of you - glad you find it helpful, I...   Apr 15 2007, 09:32 PM
Pavel   Ok i just found some time to sit and read this - t...   May 11 2007, 02:26 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (Pavel @ May 11 2007, 09:26 AM) Ok ...   May 11 2007, 02:33 PM
Rockwouldbe   hey andrew do you think you can add all the chor...   May 11 2007, 03:08 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (Rockwouldbe @ May 11 2007, 10:08 A...   May 11 2007, 04:17 PM
Bitey   So Semi tones or S are like A# or Bb and T are who...   May 15 2007, 05:10 PM
Kaneda   QUOTE (Bitey @ May 15 2007, 06:10 PM) So ...   May 15 2007, 07:45 PM
sillyman   I understand the theory behind the modes but i don...   May 27 2007, 09:37 PM
Pavel   To be honest - that's a very good question Sil...   May 27 2007, 10:13 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (Pavel @ May 27 2007, 05:13 PM) To ...   May 27 2007, 10:57 PM
Pavel   oh ok i got it now! So it's actually like ...   May 27 2007, 11:14 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (Pavel @ May 27 2007, 06:14 PM) oh ...   May 28 2007, 12:34 AM
sillyman   ah my toroise brain has finally caught up thanks a...   Jun 7 2007, 08:48 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (sillyman @ Jun 7 2007, 03:48 PM) a...   Jun 7 2007, 09:12 PM
DeepRoots   Hey Andrew just a quick one- would it be practical...   Jun 25 2007, 10:46 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (DeepRoots @ Jun 25 2007, 05:46 PM)...   Jun 25 2007, 11:19 PM
Ryan   Wow, I understand now. I have seen the light . I l...   Jun 29 2007, 04:33 AM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (Ryan @ Jun 28 2007, 11:33 PM) Wow,...   Jun 29 2007, 01:18 PM
Blairkelley   It appears that in the first lesson, we were to re...   Feb 11 2008, 05:39 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (Blairkelley @ Feb 11 2008, 11:39 A...   Feb 11 2008, 06:13 PM
Blairkelley   QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Feb 11 2008, 01...   Feb 11 2008, 08:12 PM
FretDancer69   Great lesson Andrew. I didnt understsand much the ...   Feb 12 2008, 05:24 AM
Andrew Cockburn   Harmonic minor is not mode of the major scale - i...   Feb 12 2008, 11:28 PM
FretDancer69   QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Feb 12 2008, 04...   Feb 13 2008, 12:45 AM
eddiecat   These lessons are awesome Andrew! And I would ...   Feb 13 2008, 07:08 AM
Andrew Cockburn   Thanks Eddie, its great that you like my lessons, ...   Feb 14 2008, 12:59 AM
Qube   Thanks, finally I understand this!   Jun 16 2008, 02:46 PM
DeepRoots   QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 30 2008, 07...   Jul 30 2008, 07:42 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (DeepRoots @ Jul 30 2008, 02:42 PM)...   Jul 30 2008, 07:49 PM
kjutte   QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 30 2008, 08...   Jul 30 2008, 07:46 PM
Nighthawk   QUOTE (kjutte @ Jul 30 2008, 08:31 PM) I ...   Jul 30 2008, 07:41 PM
kjutte   QUOTE (Nighthawk @ Jul 30 2008, 08:41 PM)...   Jul 30 2008, 08:00 PM
Andrew Cockburn   QUOTE (kjutte @ Jul 30 2008, 03:00 PM) By...   Jul 30 2008, 08:35 PM
kjutte   QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 30 2008, 09...   Jul 30 2008, 08:42 PM
Nighthawk   QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 30 2008, 08...   Jul 30 2008, 07:40 PM
DeepRoots   I reccomend you learn the intervals of each mode- ...   Jul 30 2008, 05:29 PM

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