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> Mtp Issues!, Let's have a discussion about it
maharzan
post Apr 16 2010, 02:37 AM
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Hey Guys,

I know the moderators might not like this but I wanted to give a frank opinion about MTP (from my experience). While this has been a great initiative and I have really learnt very much during the 2 MTPs I have taken, I feel like I could have achieved more if it was continuously running. Both my MTP sessions got left out in the middle and I am stuck at what to do next. I would love to complete MTP with one instructor or continue so after 3-4 MTP sessions (that was why I have trying to not miss assignments / REC set by MTP rules), I can complete most of the stuff I want to learn. Obviously, its not possible to complete everything about Guitar in 1 MTP.

I am sure most members who were in my MTP agree with me. Its not that we should scrap it totally (after reading this post) but we need to really find a mechanism that works for everyone, for instructors, for students, for GMC. I really want to push myself to grab every technique / theory possible within some period of time but thats not happening as of now.

Finally, one suggestion we might want to think is having lower member fees and perhaps charge a little more (reasonable, I don't know what that is) separately for MTP sessions, if that works... but make sure MTPs get completed. I am all up for this.

Just my two cents. I really want to learn but am tired of waiting.. That doesn't mean I haven't been doing anything though. Theres always self learning. smile.gif

Thanks for reading,
Chandra

PS - Don't ban me from this site if you hate this post. I just want this to be a positive discussion and I am in no way criticizing this program. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Kristofer Dahl: Apr 16 2010, 08:50 AM


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jafomatic
post Apr 16 2010, 03:19 AM
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Where did I put that cricket.


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maharzan
post Apr 16 2010, 03:31 AM
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ha jafo! I remember that.. smile.gif


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lcsdds
post Apr 16 2010, 03:34 AM
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What do you mean by your MTP sessions got left out in the middle?
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NoSkill
post Apr 16 2010, 03:57 AM
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His MTP instructor had a significant amount of personal and work issues to attend to, over the last 6 months. This has made it hard for him to be able to maintain momentum with the MTP group. Hence the phases of MTP have started and then stopped quite a bit before the three month mark. I'm in the same boat, and would have hoped to maintain some momentum. Circumstances did not permit for this to happen, hence the frustration of all in that group. *shrug* I'm all for a separate fee for MTP, frankly. I think the concept of the program is sound, but it's in it's infancy as far as execution.

This post has been edited by NoSkill: Apr 16 2010, 03:59 AM


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lcsdds
post Apr 16 2010, 04:30 AM
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That's a bummer......life is what happens while making other plans right???......Keep working Chandra.......you are already a very good player.......\m/\m/
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maharzan
post Apr 16 2010, 05:40 AM
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Thanks lcsdds. smile.gif I have been trying best of mine.. practicing 4-5 sometimes 8 hours a day. (well approx.. I just grab guitar when I am free.. every few mins) I work from home.. thats the beauty. biggrin.gif

Ye.. I am just looking for extra boost and motivation. I have been a self learner in almost everything even guitar but have virtually not progressed for some 15 years because I didn't have that extra motivation nor mentor. It is true that it helps grab things faster if there was someone behind you and pushing you all the time. When I started out MTP, I got that boost and I appreciate very much on the MTP program for what I am now. I just wanted it to continue.

This post has been edited by maharzan: Apr 16 2010, 05:41 AM


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zen
post Apr 16 2010, 06:36 AM
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I like to see such honest posts and these should be taken in the best of spirits, so we can improve this community further.

I believe MTP is still in it's preliminary stages of development. And it may truly need work on both ends.

I know your batch was affected the most (especially considering that most of you are at a VERY good level of playing).
But that's quite unfortunate. And I can't feel what you went though coz i didnt have to experience that. I would've probably failed each of the assignments coz they are way difficult for me. But I DO admire the patience exhibited by the entire batch. But once again, it could happen to anyone, personal problems and issues may crop up in anyone's lives and everything else related to guitar then becomes secondary.

But on the contrary, my experience with MTP was fantastic. I did restructure my entire routine so I can sucessfully complete it. Yes, this did include making some sacrifices on sleep or leisurely activities and even taking taking leaves from work !!! Having a terrific mentor of course made this process so much smoother.

My only concern was the lack of reasoning provided behind the new MTP rules. Everyone deserved to know why the rules changed and what factors influenced those changes coz we are paying customers here. And especially considering the fact that we take pride on the "community" element of GMC.

Another conccern I have is the lack of responses on threads like this, where people read, agree to what's being discussed but never post their opinion on it. This is more damaging to the community. I would very much appreciate if atleast Kris responds to this thread.

Anywayz, I am optimistic that things will change for good if we are to remain the top ranked site.

Maharzan, Your commitment, hard work and discipline is admirable but unfortunately, not everyone takes these things that seriously . ... so always look out for yourself ... never be dependant on other 'events' or things for your own progress and happiness. At the end of the day, it is you and you alone who has to sit and improve your playing by setting goals. But I agree if you are a paying customer primarily for MTP, then you have some pretty solid concerns there...coz it's definetly not easy to see that hard earned money go to waste.. All the best man.



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audiopaal
post Apr 16 2010, 08:02 AM
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WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE!!!??? mad.gif laugh.gif

I really appreciate your honesty, and think posts like this should be taken for what they are..
An honest opinion, and that is worth listening too!
It's a shame your MTP got cut off in the middle, and hopefully steps are taken to ensure that MTP gets better in the future smile.gif

I hope an instructor takes me under his wings sometime, as I could probably bet some proper practicing done then biggrin.gif

And yes, you're a great player and hopefully you'll get a new shot at MTP with a better outcome smile.gif
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maharzan
post Apr 16 2010, 08:24 AM
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haha audiopaal.. I AM THE BOSS!! I know if someone comes and YELLS at me on MY site, I am definitely PISSED OFF! biggrin.gif

anyways, we seriously need to discuss how we can make MTP better and get it as a MAIN ATTRACTION to GMC. smile.gif


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audiopaal
post Apr 16 2010, 08:39 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Apr 16 2010, 09:24 AM) *
haha audiopaal.. I AM THE BOSS!! I know if someone comes and YELLS at me on MY site, I am definitely PISSED OFF! biggrin.gif

anyways, we seriously need to discuss how we can make MTP better and get it as a MAIN ATTRACTION to GMC. smile.gif

I agree completely, as the MTP can be a huge selling point for potential new members smile.gif
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zen
post Apr 16 2010, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Apr 16 2010, 05:24 PM) *
haha audiopaal.. I AM THE BOSS!! I know if someone comes and YELLS at me on MY site, I am definitely PISSED OFF! biggrin.gif


If that someone is a paying customer in a customer oriented business, then being pissed off would probably be the worst emotion to exhibit and would make matters much worse tongue.gif




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Kristofer Dahl
post Apr 16 2010, 08:49 AM
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Thanks for the feedback maharzan - I have read everything in this thread and while I digest your post I will change the name of this thread. "Total failure" doesn't seem to match your description and is not good starting point if you want a constructive discussion about mtp improvements.


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Staffy
post Apr 16 2010, 08:53 AM
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I don't really think this is a big issue, even that I think the 3-month rule is a little bit stupid. There are plenty of other activities going on, and since the MTP is an open program its easy to follow other students lessons as well. I agree that a fee on the MTP would be fair though - then will only the one's who's really concerned bout their playing apply, and hence put less stress on the instructors. But then shall the regular fee been lowered maybe a little bit, since a lot of young players cannot afford the rate as it is even today. Or maybe have some "ticket"-system for the lessons???

I said this before, the only thing I think is bad bout the MTP, is that it seems that more than 50% are wasting the instructors time by not completing their assignments/not even tries to. The one's who's really interested suffers ofc. of this, and I'm sorry for You buddy! sad.gif
On the other hand, 3-months passes quickly, and the next time its your turn! smile.gif

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maharzan
post Apr 16 2010, 10:16 AM
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Thanks Kris! I wanted write a harsh msg.. smile.gif

Yep Staffay, absolutely right. The only concern to that is I don't want to join if I will be left again in the middle.. it will just be like touch base something in all MTP and not completing any one of them. smile.gif


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Chris Evans
post Apr 16 2010, 11:35 AM
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good post imo, a lot of the activities etc that are on GMC develop from these kind of discussions, provided they are presented in a reasonable way (which I think it has been smile.gif ) and are not just used to bash then its all healthy as far as I`m concerned.

there was several replies at the start of the last phase which have been noted, and like wise in this one too smile.gif

the MTP is in its infancy still, unfortunatly life throws us things that although we started with the very best intentions are simply unable to meet, it is of course very unfortunate that your instructor had to break away at this point in your MTP sad.gif this is definatly an area in which we need to look at in the future phases.

From what I understand most are reasonably happy with the MTP until it stops for one reason or another?


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jafomatic
post Apr 16 2010, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Chris Evans @ Apr 16 2010, 05:35 AM) *
From what I understand most are reasonably happy with the MTP until it stops for one reason or another?


I think the reason is more important than to gloss over. When that reason is "the instructor disappeared" there's a lot more unhappiness going on that isn't being posted.

I watched all the mtp-required REC videos that were submitted in the current rules and I read all the MTP threads; especially the old ones from earlier in 2009. I've seen the skill and playing ability improved significantly on a few members which I will list here and illustrate something.

- Kaznie_NL
- VelvetRoger
- Maharzan
- lcsdds
- NoSkill

The first four of those members improved their playing ONLY under the old mtp system that did not burden the instructor or students with deadlines and assignments. NoSkill is the exception because even when his instructor disappeared for months at a time --all three of his three-month attempts-- NoSkill continued to work through as much of the program as he could. This included finding assignments that were handed to other students and making REC submissions of his own. He also sought some outside advice and tutoring which throws his MTP-based improvement into more question.

From where I'm standing the older system worked and the new one doesn't work yet. The instructors and students are being held to a system that is no longer encouraging "mentorship" and has just enough added hassle that it's far too easy for both to suddenly "not have time" to participate. When a student doesn't participate, they walk out of the program, that's fine. When the instructor stops participating consistently after week three of a twelve week program, three times in a row, that is when things turn bad for his five-to-seven students.

I hope this isn't worded with too much rancor, but we all say the program is in its infancy yet it's been alive for a year. The last half of that year it has spent on a gurney in the hospital emergency room, bleeding to death and waiting for an examination.



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intemperateContr...
post Apr 16 2010, 03:45 PM
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Interesting thread. I too believe that at times circumstances beyond our control
prevents even the best among us from following through with the best of intentions.

Might I suggest having a few backup volunteers among participating instructors in
order to see there is no lapse in the program whenever circumstances like this may
arise. Secondly, creating some structured programs based on the clients preferences
might also help save some time, not to sacrifice that personal touch I think the MTP
is meant to provide, but some things really are cut and dried and some things not.
Anyway, just my two cents (na, let's call it a nickel's worth). Hang loose guys. smile.gif
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lcsdds
post Apr 16 2010, 04:50 PM
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I'm gonna agree with Jafo on this one. I was a participant in the original program with Muris as my mentor. My one and ONLY goal for that was to get my AP skills going. Are my AP skills as good as I want them to be.....NO. But......I have a good AP practice routine now and my AP and overall playing have improved as a result. I think the problem with the new system is it is too rigid......this is a result of the required assignments IMO.

Students should be able to practice and learn whatever they want and the instructors should be a resource for that student in the MTP. We all have only a finite amount of time to practice and if a good chunk of that is spent learning a GMC lesson that is not particularly appealing to us then that is kind of a waste of time IMO. I know for me that I would love to sign up for MTP with Pedja and try and leech all of his theory knowledge but I don't particularly want to spend some of my precious practice time working on a GMC lesson that I don't really want to. I guess bottom line is that IMO MTP should be a little less rigid and conform more to what the student wants to work on. Just my two cents...... smile.gif smile.gif
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Staffy
post Apr 16 2010, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Apr 16 2010, 05:50 PM) *
I'm gonna agree with Jafo on this one. I was a participant in the original program with Muris as my mentor. My one and ONLY goal for that was to get my AP skills going. Are my AP skills as good as I want them to be.....NO. But......I have a good AP practice routine now and my AP and overall playing have improved as a result. I think the problem with the new system is it is too rigid......this is a result of the required assignments IMO.

Students should be able to practice and learn whatever they want and the instructors should be a resource for that student in the MTP. We all have only a finite amount of time to practice and if a good chunk of that is spent learning a GMC lesson that is not particularly appealing to us then that is kind of a waste of time IMO. I know for me that I would love to sign up for MTP with Pedja and try and leech all of his theory knowledge but I don't particularly want to spend some of my precious practice time working on a GMC lesson that I don't really want to. I guess bottom line is that IMO MTP should be a little less rigid and conform more to what the student wants to work on. Just my two cents...... smile.gif smile.gif



Hmmm, I'm with You and Jafo partly here, but I don't see why You can't speak to the instructor about the assignments. I'm doing a MTP with Pedja right now, and we have a dialogue about the assignments and the lessons for the REC as well. I think this can be solved with just a little communication between the student and the teacher. However I think its good for the students to have assignments because it motivates them to perform some practicing - if it would be a "looser" concept lazy students (like me tongue.gif ), will just done the work in half.....
One thing that would be very good though, is to have some sort of quee-list - since there are some students dropping off altready in the first month, these spots can be used for them who have participated before and showed some good motivation.

//Staffay


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