Mtp Issues!, Let's have a discussion about it |
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Apr 16 2010, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Apr 16 2010, 11:33 AM)  However I think its good for the students to have assignments because it motivates them to perform some practicing - if it would be a "looser" concept lazy students (like me  ), will just done the work in half.....I think that assignment for the sake of promoting the REC program is not the same kind of animal as an assignment that the instructors might choose which might target a specific need that the student has. That sort of targeted assignment was used in both current and old MTP programs, but a much higher percentage in the older program when assignments were not required but rather used when the tool was appropriate. Here's the real thing where the results speak for themselves. In the original MTP program, which was unstructured, the students that chose to do the looser assignments improved far more than anyone in the current MTP program has improved. It's not a question of "if it would be "looser" concept" in the future but rather looking at the past. It was done the "looser" way and it succeeded far more when we look at tangible accomplishments by the students that participated. -------------------- ::jafomatic
 http://jafomatic.net/tunes/ <-- Here lies the master collection of my collaboration and other improvisation recordings. |
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Apr 16 2010, 06:33 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Apr 16 2010, 06:46 PM) However.....some MTP students are total beginners and want the Instructor to guide them. In this case I think that the instructor assigning GMC lessons and requiring a REC posting is a good thing. I guess my point is that the MTP needs to be able to be adapted to a players SPECIFIC needs and wants and not just be a "one size fits all" type of program........\m/\m/  This I agree to fully, for more experienced players that has an idea of what they want to do, a looser model is far more adequate. Still I think the REC-video is a good thing, maybe it dont have to be posted for REC, but for showing the instructor how it really looks when You play. //Staffay --------------------  Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Apr 16 2010, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Apr 16 2010, 12:33 PM) This I agree to fully, for more experienced players that has an idea of what they want to do, a looser model is far more adequate. Still I think the REC-video is a good thing, maybe it dont have to be posted for REC, but for showing the instructor how it really looks when You play. //Staffay Ah, yes. Requiring that video of playing be posted is totally reasonable. I don't see how that's the same thing as "posting REC submission" however since there are additional rules if the video is to be submitted for actual REC grading. For example: did you know what happened to the vocal MTP? They were required to sing and play guitar at the same time in order to satisfy REC rules and still required to submit REC to satisfy MTP rules. This rule was added (or clarified?) after the vocal MTP program started. I know you can sing and play at the same time and I know that I have done this also in the past, but a beginner vocalist is going to struggle with that. One guy even found out that he had to learn two lessons --one vocal, one instrumental-- when that rule was added a week (or less?) before his first REC assignment was due. If the REC requirement drops, that vocal MTP succeeds; the guy was learning and improving. -------------------- ::jafomatic
http://jafomatic.net/tunes/ <-- Here lies the master collection of my collaboration and other improvisation recordings. |
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Apr 16 2010, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (NoSkill @ Apr 16 2010, 07:20 PM) Staffy, some instructors are more approachable than others. As hard as it is to generalize the entire program because of the bad experiences of a few, it's equally as difficult to generalize because of the good experiences of a different few. Pedja, as we all know, is in a class of his own, from an instructor standpoint. I don't really see anyone that has had a chance to study with him, that could find fault in the program based on his dedication to it. His is a more isolated situation and can't really be used to describe the program, or answer to maharzan's concerns. Ofc. it is, some instructors are better than others in the terms of guiding the students. I had an MTP with Ivan in the old system before as well, but I can't complain about that either - it was just great! One thing we must bear in mind is that most teachers here are not "educated", eg. they have no eduction in how to teach things in a pedagogic way, even that they master their instruments superbly. But as an old teacher of mine stated long time ago: "We have something to learn from every musician we meet". I still think most of the problems can be solved with a little conversation, but I also wish that the system was a little less rigid. //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Apr 16 2010, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Apr 16 2010, 12:42 PM) I had an MTP with Ivan in the old system before as well, but I can't complain about that either - it was just great! Were you using a different username at that time? You and I both joined GMC after that program was locked. We're also getting away from the fact that instructors are participating in only 3 of 12 weeks paid program for some of these guys. I know at least three members that kept their subscriptions going at the new higher price ONLY because of MTP hopes. -------------------- ::jafomatic
http://jafomatic.net/tunes/ <-- Here lies the master collection of my collaboration and other improvisation recordings. |
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Apr 16 2010, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Apr 16 2010, 08:03 PM) Were you using a different username at that time? You and I both joined GMC after that program was locked. We're also getting away from the fact that instructors are participating in only 3 of 12 weeks paid program for some of these guys. I know at least three members that kept their subscriptions going at the new higher price ONLY because of MTP hopes. Hmm, maybe You talk of an even older MTP-system, but when I joined with Ivan there was only some assignments, no REC, no grading, but I can recall that before last Christmas some major changes was made. Yeah, You've right bout loosing focus here. Obviously, I dont think that the instructors getting paid for 12 weeks, when doin just three - and hence, if the reason for the students membership is the MTP, they shall have their money back, if requested. Otherwise it's like cheating the members imo. However, this is just another reason for lowering the general fee and have a separate fee for the MTP-program, like I wrote before. If You don't get the MTP from the instructors You were signed for - then You don't have to pay for it either. //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Apr 16 2010, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Apr 16 2010, 01:20 PM) Hmm, maybe You talk of an even older MTP-system Aye, the one before you and I joined really worked. See if you can find some of those guys playing in a "before and after" style and you'll see. The threads may be gone, I'm not sure, but the way it worked was a little complicated looking. Instructor mentored some intermediate guys, the intermediate guys mentored the beginners. So what looked best was Muris mentoring Lcsdds & Roger, then Lcsdds & Roger mentoring Kaznie and some other folks. If you can see Roger & Kaznie's playing before and after that program, the difference is amazing and far more clear than any improvement (or lack of) that's come from the current system. Regarding the subscription, I don't think anyone here wants to punish GMC. I think folks just want it fixed for the future. The idea that the MTP costs more and base subscription could cost a little less than current --and still more than the original price from years past-- sounds reasonable but I don't really know anything about Kris' costs for bandwidth and payroll. Anyway, that first MTP model produced far more visible results in far less time than the current model. That should speak loudly enough. -------------------- ::jafomatic
http://jafomatic.net/tunes/ <-- Here lies the master collection of my collaboration and other improvisation recordings. |
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Apr 16 2010, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Apr 16 2010, 02:14 PM) results of first MTP have been better than the results of the current MTP. I remember the KAZ BOX from that thread quite well, actually, when I was writing about how well that program worked. And the results you, roger, and kaz all showed was really incredible when I went browsing backwards through your youtube accounts. The competition aspect to become part of that MTP program seemed a little exclusive to me but the rest of its structure and lack of rules-for-rules-sake appears to work very very well. -------------------- ::jafomatic
http://jafomatic.net/tunes/ <-- Here lies the master collection of my collaboration and other improvisation recordings. |
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Apr 16 2010, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Apr 16 2010, 08:42 PM) Instructor mentored some intermediate guys, the intermediate guys mentored the beginners. So what looked best was Muris mentoring Lcsdds & Roger, then Lcsdds & Roger mentoring Kaznie and some other folks. If you can see Roger & Kaznie's playing before and after that program, the difference is amazing and far more clear than any improvement (or lack of) that's come from the current system Well, I didn't know that. It makes sense to me - the intermediate guy's get training from the instructors and then pay back by teaching the beginners. The only problem here would be to judge who shall get training from the instructors??? //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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Apr 16 2010, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE (Staffy @ Apr 16 2010, 09:57 PM) The only problem here would be to judge who shall get training from the instructors??? //Staffay Hence the competition.......
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Gear: Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster, Gibson '67 RI Flying V, Mesa Boogie F-30 112 combo, crazy pedals.|
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Apr 17 2010, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Apr 17 2010, 03:41 AM) For example: did you know what happened to the vocal MTP? They were required to sing and play guitar at the same time in order to satisfy REC rules and still required to submit REC to satisfy MTP rules. This rule was added (or clarified?) after the vocal MTP program started. I know you can sing and play at the same time and I know that I have done this also in the past, but a beginner vocalist is going to struggle with that. Oh, That unfortunate @#$%#% was me  That rule suddenly got introduced at the start of the 3rd month into the program of vocal mtp. It was going very well till then. The first 2 months were awesome and I learnt a lot. Although, i would love to learn to sing while playing, i thought that would be the next step, after I improve my vocal technique a bit. If we run a keyboard MTP under Maestro, we're not gonna ask people to play guitar at the same time, are we? Voice IS another instrument, rarely anyone treats it as such. -------------------- "If the need is deep, you WILL find a way , if it isn't, you'll find some excuse"
Check out my Student Instructor Lesson on Metal Riffing HERE Visit My Youtube Channel |
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