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> This "pro" Musician Garbage...
Staffy
post May 5 2010, 08:08 AM
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Once again I'm trapped in this "palying with pro musicians" )(/%% -garbage. mad.gif

Since they are pro's:

1) They have no time for rehearsals, and thinks they can play all songs without rehearsals at all.
2) It's impossible to book the band because they have bookings with 5 other bands as well....
3) They wont do any gigs below a certain amount of wages, not even as a promotional thing.
4) Everything shall be done by the "rule of thumb" -way - which makes it impossible to do anything
unusual here.

So whats the point complaining bout this?
Well, I really have two options here:
1) Stay with "professional" musicians and have like 2 or 3 bands in one, depending on which guy can play
on a certain date/occasion.
2) Getting some good "amateurs", that will play for fun - but hence the band will not sound the same.....

I hate beeing trapped in situations like this, I just wanna get some gigs and perform. I dont care bout money
or other things, I just wanna have some fun before I'm hitting the wheel-chair. So what to do???

//Staffay


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OzRob
post May 5 2010, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE
I dont care bout money or other things, I just wanna have some fun before I'm hitting the wheel-chair. So what to do???


You already know what to do. You answered your own question.... wink.gif

QUOTE
Getting some good "amateurs", that will play for fun


This post has been edited by OzRob: May 5 2010, 08:30 AM


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Zsolt Galambos
post May 5 2010, 08:53 AM
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I competely agree with OzRob!

Perhaps you won't sound the same, but these "amateurs" also have the potential to become "professionals", so this choice could become much more beneficial. I know a lot of "amateurs" that are way better musicians than some "pro-s".

But you have to have an understandig regarding the "pro-s", and I'm talking about Hungary here, but I think the situation is the same elsewhere: a lot of musicians tried to acomplish their goals over years and years of their efforts, but somehow couldn't. Years of practice, invested money, stress, and still they couldn't acomplish their musical goals. This can make these musicians quite frustrated, so their next step is obvious, the attitude you mentioned.



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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post May 5 2010, 10:26 AM
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Those pros you're talking about sound suspicious, the way you described. I would go for amateurs!


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Staffy
post May 5 2010, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (Zsolt Galambos @ May 5 2010, 09:53 AM) *
I competely agree with OzRob!

Perhaps you won't sound the same, but these "amateurs" also have the potential to become "professionals", so this choice could become much more beneficial. I know a lot of "amateurs" that are way better musicians than some "pro-s".

But you have to have an understandig regarding the "pro-s", and I'm talking about Hungary here, but I think the situation is the same elsewhere: a lot of musicians tried to acomplish their goals over years and years of their efforts, but somehow couldn't. Years of practice, invested money, stress, and still they couldn't acomplish their musical goals. This can make these musicians quite frustrated, so their next step is obvious, the attitude you mentioned.


Hmm, I can see what You guys says here, the problem is that I probably would get bored of playing myself, since I've always played with really good musicians, and if it doesn't sounds well......
yeah, the situation is the same here as well, Zsolt. I was a pro-musician myself long time ago, and that really made me quit playing - eg. being frustrated. That really bothers me however, is the lack of professionalism amongst "the pros". How can one perform without really knowing the songs? I've never did that, not even when I was playing "professionally". Most musicians just goes like "give me a sheet of paper".....
And that makes me mad, and I use to tell them what they can do with that (/&¤&¤ paper..... laugh.gif
However, its a catch-22 situation - if You have a lot of gigs and good money - everyone wants to play with You and takes things seriously. If not, then the band sounds bad because noone wants to rehearse for just 2-3 gigs.......
So I guess I have to write a Milli-Vanilli song or join the Eurovision Song Contests - then I will get a good band....... laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


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sted
post May 5 2010, 07:07 PM
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Oh mate dont get me started on friggin "Pro's" Casually looking for another guitarist for the band to expand our repertoire so responds to a guy's ad "Looking for a band" saying we are a gigging band with a few bookings and think he might fit the bill, he says he's interested but he does a lot of gigs so it depends on our "gigging committments".
I think I must be going slightly insane as it appears he is looking for a gigging band with no gigs because he gigs a lot.

In short a time wasting tosser.

Play on.
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Marc_Maiden
post May 5 2010, 07:26 PM
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Just because you are pro does not mean you are good.


all it means is that you are lucky.


If you want to make it big, stick it out with the pros and build up your "musical resume"

if you want to have fun, and work from the bottom up, go with the amateurs


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Saoirse O'Shea
post May 5 2010, 07:31 PM
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I sympathise Staffay.

From a slightly different angle I have to work with/for some people who term themselves 'professional' and some who term themselves 'amateur'. More often than not the choice of terminology seems based more on whether they earn most/all of their living as a musician - if they do they call themselves 'pro'. That however doesn't mean that they act professionally, or that 'amateurs' act unprofessionally. For me the 'pro' is more the person who acts and behaves professionally, and so provides what they need/have to, to the best of their ability, in an appropriate manner, to an appropriate standard and who shows respect to those who work with and for them; that makes a 'pro' for me rather than just the ability to earn an income.


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SirJamsalot
post May 5 2010, 08:38 PM
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I frequent another musicians board - there are a lot of veteran players and this topic comes up alot. The consensus there is basically you can't change other people's delusions of grandeur - all you can do is be leader of the band and set down practice and if someone doesn't want to practice, they get the boot - realizing of course finding musicians worthy of the band is a challenge in and of itself. They recommended to each other that the terms of being in the band are set in some form of agreement at the outset, including song-ownership terms, copyright, and expectations.

Other than that, incentives are all I can think of. When I played volleyball at the competitive level, I gave up the 6-man indoor competitions because it was too difficult getting regular practices schedule with 12 players. I moved to doubles because I had few people to depend on. I can see why there are a lot of people doing solo-work in music - much of it, based on conversations with others, is getting cohesion between alot of band-members for a common goal is not easy. It's like a family I guess.

Best of luck,
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Staffy
post May 5 2010, 10:50 PM
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QUOTE (sted @ May 5 2010, 08:07 PM) *
I think I must be going slightly insane as it appears he is looking for a gigging band with no gigs because he gigs a lot.

In short a time wasting tosser.

Play on.


He must be a real hotshot!!!! laugh.gif Maybe he wants to do "virtual" gigs, eg. lying in his bed dreaming of gigging and get paid anyway???

//Staffay

QUOTE (Marc_Maiden @ May 5 2010, 08:26 PM) *
Just because you are pro does not mean you are good.
all it means is that you are lucky.
If you want to make it big, stick it out with the pros and build up your "musical resume"
if you want to have fun, and work from the bottom up, go with the amateurs


A agree to this 100%. But the thing here is that I happen to know all the musicians around, and I think they know me, so getting some
good guys is not actually a problem. Same goes with the guys at the venues, I know a lot of them and dont really have no problem to get
some gigs - but the other guys doesn't have the time......... And I dont wanna play alone.... So for now I'm stuck in my basement with GMC and
and some backing tracks, but I enjoy that too... smile.gif

//Staffay

QUOTE (tonymiro @ May 5 2010, 08:31 PM) *
I sympathise Staffay.

From a slightly different angle I have to work with/for some people who term themselves 'professional' and some who term themselves 'amateur'. More often than not the choice of terminology seems based more on whether they earn most/all of their living as a musician - if they do they call themselves 'pro'. That however doesn't mean that they act professionally, or that 'amateurs' act unprofessionally. For me the 'pro' is more the person who acts and behaves professionally, and so provides what they need/have to, to the best of their ability, in an appropriate manner, to an appropriate standard and who shows respect to those who work with and for them; that makes a 'pro' for me rather than just the ability to earn an income.


Same goes for me Tony - a pro is a skilled musician that acts and behaves professionally, AND knows that no matter what music You're supposed to play, it can't be done without rehearsals.

//Staffay

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ May 5 2010, 09:38 PM) *
I frequent another musicians board - there are a lot of veteran players and this topic comes up alot. The consensus there is basically you can't change other people's delusions of grandeur - all you can do is be leader of the band and set down practice and if someone doesn't want to practice, they get the boot - realizing of course finding musicians worthy of the band is a challenge in and of itself. They recommended to each other that the terms of being in the band are set in some form of agreement at the outset, including song-ownership terms, copyright, and expectations.


Thats definitely true, sometimes I even thinking of booting myself. What is quite stunning though, is that none of those "pro's" had survived in a regular company with all the struggle they causes to make a job done. Why is music in that way? I'm running a company as well, and if someone of the employees had behaved like the pro musicians (not all ofc.) they have been out on the streets loooong time ago....

//Staffay


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Todd Simpson
post May 6 2010, 12:18 AM
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Sounds like you have it worked out smile.gif Sorry to hear about the drama. I feel your pain. I've played with gigging bands while playing with jam bands and there can be conflicts. It's never fun.

Practice!
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Ivan Milenkovic
post May 6 2010, 01:47 AM
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QUOTE (Vasilije Vukmirovic @ May 5 2010, 11:26 AM) *
Those pros you're talking about sound suspicious, the way you described. I would go for amateurs!


My thoughts exactly! smile.gif


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