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> Metal Tone Lab Thread, In with the dry, out with the metal
SirJamsalot
post May 7 2010, 06:11 PM
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On my way to work this morning I was thinking about my last thread (https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=35029) on achieving a good recording tone. Thanks everyone for the replies - I have my homework to do and would appreciate help along the way in understanding better how to achieve it. Most notably, learning which effect affects the signal in which way - e.g. how do things like compression affect the sound audibly, not techicnally (I know what it does).

I thought it might be interesting to start a "Tone-Lab" thread. The challenge is this: Ultimate Guitar forum has a VST Plugin Guide stickied that I think would be fun to piggy back off of for learning and experimenting with Plugin tones.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showt...d.php?t=1131250

In that thread is a riff already recorded in dry-tone (no effects, just straight line in). If you'd like to take the challenge, see what kinds of metal tones you can generate from that file and post your results including what plugins, effects and settings you used to get that tone.

The audio files are here:
https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/371262/ThrashTest.rar

Christian A.

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Results to date:
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Guitar Rig 4 (uploaded by ozRob)
Lead left: Puppetmaster
Lead right: YNGW
Rhy Left: Dual Ultra
Rhy Right: Dual Riff
Sonic maximizer globally
File: Guitar Rig 4
Notes: imported into daw, added G4 presets, BBE globally. No EQ or other effs.

Waves GTR 3 (uploaded by Artemus)
Rhythm Left: "Crunch" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 - on axis
Rhythm Right: "Monster" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 off axis
Lead Left: "Shredder" amp; 2x12 OpenBack; Dyn409 - on axis
Lead Right: "Scorch" amp; 2x12 ClosedBacl; Dyn409 - off axis
GTR.wav ( 4.67MB )

Aradaz amp (uploaded by Artemus)
Rhythm Left: Aradaz Green
Rhythm Right: Aradaz White
Lead: Sumulanalog Marshall JCM + Simulanalog Univox Uni-Vibe
Aradaz.wav ( 5.7MB )

Amplitude 2 (uploaded by Artemus)
Using all presets in Heavy Metal style folder:
Rhythm Left: "Dualamp powerrhythm"
Rhythm Right: "Dualamp pwrchrds"
Lead: "Solo"
Amplitude.wav ( 4.57MB )

Amplitude Metal (uploaded by Todd Simpson)
price: ~$99USD
Presets: unspecified.
Ozone on drums, minimal production in terms of compressors, EQ, mixing, mastering etc.
AmplitudeMetal.wav ( 4.38MB )

Amplitude Metal #2(uploaded by Todd Simpson)
price: ~$99USD
Presets: Randall Warhead 300 + Fender MH-1 Cabinet + Rack Tube Compressor + Neuman condenser Mic. *see post #27 for image of settings.
Amplitude_v2.wav ( 4.55MB )

ReValver MKIII- Peavy (uploaded by Ivan Milenkovic)
Price: ouch ~ $299.00USD
Presets: unspecified. Effects: unspecified
test1.wav ( 7.83MB )

This post has been edited by SirJamsalot: May 19 2010, 06:29 AM


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Todd Simpson
post May 7 2010, 09:00 PM
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A fine idea smile.gif I"ll put my "Special Sauce" on it and repost. After trying just about every amp modeler and modeling plugin, I finally found AMPLITUDE METAL, as I mentioned. So far the only modeling plugin designed specifically for metal. On a related note, there is now an AMP MODELER for the iPhone. Who would have thought? From the same guys that make Amplitude Metal.

IPHONE GUITAR MODELING


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audiopaal
post May 7 2010, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 7 2010, 10:00 PM) *
A fine idea smile.gif I"ll put my "Special Sauce" on it and repost. After trying just about every amp modeler and modeling plugin, I finally found AMPLITUDE METAL, as I mentioned. So far the only modeling plugin designed specifically for metal. On a related note, there is now an AMP MODELER for the iPhone. Who would have thought? From the same guys that make Amplitude Metal.

IPHONE GUITAR MODELING

Amplitude Metal is not the only modelling plug-in designed for metal.
Softube Metal Amp Room is another great plug-in as well smile.gif

I'll repost the unprocessed files with Metal Amp Room if you want.
Sometime tomorrow smile.gif
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SirJamsalot
post May 7 2010, 10:59 PM
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Yes, I want! =smile.gif This thread is for Metal tones and I'm hoping to generate some good information with samples in this thread for everyone to benefit from. If you can include your effects chain - and any non-copyrighted settings that would be ideal smile.gif I'll be posting my own experiments as well (I would have already except I wrote this from work so I gotta wait til I get home).

Thanks guys,
Christian A.


QUOTE (audiopaal @ May 7 2010, 02:07 PM) *
Amplitude Metal is not the only modelling plug-in designed for metal.
Softube Metal Amp Room is another great plug-in as well smile.gif

I'll repost the unprocessed files with Metal Amp Room if you want.
Sometime tomorrow smile.gif


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Staffy
post May 7 2010, 11:42 PM
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QUOTE (audiopaal @ May 7 2010, 11:07 PM) *
Amplitude Metal is not the only modelling plug-in designed for metal.
Softube Metal Amp Room is another great plug-in as well smile.gif

I'll repost the unprocessed files with Metal Amp Room if you want.
Sometime tomorrow smile.gif


I will add Peavey Revalver Mkiii as an option as well, it seems to be able to produce some real nasty metal-tones. Also Overloud TH1 are target to metal, but consumes a LOT of raw computer power (eg. RAM).

//Staffay


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OzRob
post May 8 2010, 04:15 AM
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This was about 5mins work in Guitar Rig 4 using only presets and not adjusting any settings - and that's the second time I've opened GR4, so pardon the mixing. It does seem to me that GR4 has some real potential if one were to spend time with it.


[attachment=20822:thrash_test.mp3]







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zen
post May 8 2010, 04:32 AM
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QUOTE (OzRob @ May 8 2010, 01:15 PM) *
This was about 5mins work in Guitar Rig 4 using only presets and not adjusting any settings - and that's the second time I've opened GR4, so pardon the mixing. It does seem to me that GR4 has some real potential if one were to spend time with it.


[attachment=20822:thrash_test.mp3]


Very Nice and Tight playing there too mate .. Which preset is that in GR4?


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OzRob
post May 8 2010, 04:38 AM
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QUOTE (zen @ May 8 2010, 01:32 PM) *
Very Nice and Tight playing there too mate .. Which preset is that in GR4?


The playing was the files SirJam linked to. I just put them through GR4.

Presets:-

Lead left: Puppetmaster
Lead right: YNGW
Rhy Left: Dual Ultra
Rhy Right: Dual Riff

Then a touch of Sonic maximizer globally to give some more bight. Beyond that, nothing else.

Ps. so it's clear, I didn't adjust any settings on anything. Imported the tracks into DAW. Added GR4 presets to lead and rhythm and BBE to global. Haven't done any EQing, compressing or anything. Adjusted track levels a little but that's all. Given the result 'as is', I'm really thinking that GR4 could produce excellent tones given some time to play with it.

This post has been edited by OzRob: May 8 2010, 04:47 AM


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zen
post May 8 2010, 04:44 AM
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QUOTE (OzRob @ May 8 2010, 01:38 PM) *
The playing was the files SirJam linked to. I just put them through GR4.

Presets:-

Lead left: Puppetmaster
Lead right: YNGW
Rhy Left: Dual Ultra
Rhy Right: Dual Riff

Then a touch of Sonic maximizer globally to give some more bight. Beyond that, nothing else.


Cool Thanks. I'm only use GR now but it's time to get version 4 smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post May 8 2010, 08:02 AM
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I meant to say the only plugin from AMPLITUDE designed specifically for metal. Other vendors make their own. Some guys prefer the Peavey plugin, it varies widely. My point here is that I prefer the Amplitude Metal plugin. Having tried most every plugin available, It just sounds better than most. But again, hearing is subjective so it's important to try things for yourself.

GETTING GOOD METAL AMP TONE:
If you decide to use an amp/speaker/cab what have you, and a mic instead of going direct. I can share with you some tips and tricks that I used to get a good chunky/crunchy tone. Again, THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE AND SOME WILL FIND IT CRAZY.

I play a 7 string Ibanez with a low B and it's very deep. I found guitar speakers just didn't have enough bottom end for me. Even cabs from KRANK, MARSHAL, etc. All seemed to be tuned to bottom out around the range of a standard six string E frequency. So I picked up a trick from some Death/Grind players and tried a bass guitar cabinet with a 15 inch driver. BINGO! Deep thick tone. I did have to EQ some mid back in though. Eventually, I found a fairly cheap combo Bass amp (Crate brand no less) with an onboard E.Q. I only use it for amplification and speaker color. All processing is done either in software or by my GNX3.

Once the tone is dialed up, I use a fairly cheap Condenser microphone (MXL brand) set off axis, six inches back and tilted up slightly and turned in a little. I've spend countless hours moving mics around cabinets and speakers and found this somehow yields the best results for semi close mic work. If you jam a condenser mic in the middle of the cone, it can frap, and just sound kinda crappy. By setting it back and off axis, you allow the condenser some breathing room and pick up more color from the speaker which is kind of the point of not going direct.

The good news is, this setup is not expensive. Amp was about $300, mic was about $75. And yields great tone. To get similar tone in the traditional way, you may end up needing a Mesa Head/Cab/rack compressor, eq, etc. Which costs thousands. I've tried it that way and it can be done. But as I headed toward doing more and more "In the box" (using software and modeling) I found I was using my cabs/heads/rack less and less Eventually I sold most of it and bought more software, guitars, computers etc. Here is a pic of the amp/mic setup.



Some gear I bought after selling off my amps/heads/cabs and going for this new approach.


QUOTE (audiopaal @ May 7 2010, 05:07 PM) *
Amplitude Metal is not the only modelling plug-in designed for metal.
Softube Metal Amp Room is another great plug-in as well smile.gif

I'll repost the unprocessed files with Metal Amp Room if you want.
Sometime tomorrow smile.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 8 2010, 08:19 AM


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Artemus
post May 8 2010, 12:10 PM
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Here are the results with some of the plug-ins that I've been playing with lately:

All bass files put through Waves plugin called RBass

Waves GTR 3 (probably my favourite atm)

Rhythm Left: "Crunch" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 - on axis
Rhythm Right: "Monster" amp; 4x12 Standard; Dyn57 off axis
Lead Left: "Shredder" amp; 2x12 OpenBack; Dyn409 - on axis
Lead Right: "Scorch" amp; 2x12 ClosedBacl; Dyn409 - off axis
Attached File  GTR.wav ( 4.67MB ) Number of downloads: 987


Aradaz amp

Rhythm Left: Aradaz Green
Rhythm Right: Aradaz White
Lead: Sumulanalog Marshall JCM + Simulanalog Univox Uni-Vibe
Attached File  Aradaz.wav ( 5.7MB ) Number of downloads: 270


Amplitude 2
Using all presets in Heavy Metal style folder:
Rhythm Left: "Dualamp powerrhythm"
Rhythm Right: "Dualamp pwrchrds"
Lead: "Solo"
Attached File  Amplitude.wav ( 4.57MB ) Number of downloads: 310


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Todd Simpson
post May 12 2010, 02:48 AM
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I ran each guitar track through Amplitude Metal and put Ozone on the drums. I must say, it's pretty darn heavy. I was actually kinda shocked at how spiff and crunchy it ended up sounding. Minimal production in terms of compressors, EQ, mixing, mastering etc. I'm sending a .wav file as the mp3 version just didn't do it justice.

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Sep 6 2010, 03:21 AM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  AmplitudeMetal.wav ( 4.38MB ) Number of downloads: 428
 


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SirJamsalot
post May 12 2010, 06:59 AM
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We're getting a nice little collection here. It's pretty cool opening each one in a separate player so they're all available and testing each one side by side. They all sound really good, to me anyways and I'm wondering if that's the magic of double-tracking working, because I've tried these plugins direct thru my system on my geetar, and I can't get nearly the same amount of tight crunch playing direct - but double tracking then listening and whala. trip.


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OzRob
post May 12 2010, 01:37 PM
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Yeh, doubling fattens the sound, gives it more kick, and if you get two complementary sounds, a really nice overall tone can come through.


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Todd Simpson
post May 13 2010, 02:31 AM
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Doubling is a great way to get killer tones. Also, panning them about 15 degrees out left and right creates and stereo field so it sounds much bigger. Also, something called "re-amping" is getting very popular. Essentially, running out of your DAW and in to a guitar amp and then recording that back in to the DAW.

Another trick, that I use all the time, is software "Re-Amping" for example, I'll take the Amplitude plugin and bus it to separate compressor, gate, eq, and amp simulator. Or sometomes, pre-amping by running the compressor, gate, eq, and software amp modeler (like one in garage band or LOGIC) in to the Metal Plugin. Essentially stacking modeling plugins. You have to be careful as the first stage can only have minimal gain, just enough to act as a pre amp.

The amp modeling built in to Garage band and LOGIC is killer. Put a plugin modeler on top of that and you can get crazy with it I find that most one stage modelers that are software only simply lack the gain to make me happy.

Todd


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Ivan Milenkovic
post May 13 2010, 11:49 PM
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy => ReValver MKIII + couple of more tricks biggrin.gif


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Attached File  test1.wav ( 7.83MB ) Number of downloads: 380
 


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SirJamsalot
post May 14 2010, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ May 13 2010, 03:49 PM) *
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy => ReValver MKIII + couple of more tricks biggrin.gif


wow. this is good tone - very punchy.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post May 14 2010, 01:19 AM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ May 14 2010, 01:10 AM) *
wow. this is good tone - very punchy.


Punchy is my middle name rolleyes.gif laugh.gif


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Todd Simpson
post May 14 2010, 05:41 PM
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Here is a screen cap of the preset I used in amplitude metal. I don't think it's stock. I downloaded a bunch of user presets from the IK multimedia web site. Great community with tons of user presets. It's pretty simple as far as setup.

5150 Amp Emulation
5150 Cab Emulation
Sm57 Mic (Of axis of course)

No Pedals emulated
No Rack Gear emulated.

Basically a 5150 emulation with a Sm57. Pretty simple.

Now I am "pre-amping" with a side chain of Garage Band built in fx.

Compressor
Noise gate
Marshall Emulation Combo Amp gain +2

This provides the plugin with enough gain to actually sound METAL. I've noticed that without some sort of pre-amping, the plugins just can't get enough gain to get really crunchy, metalish, tone. Here is a pic of the head settings in Amplitude.
Trying to buy just the head and cab would be way more than the plugin. Now that amp is very nice and would be great to have. But being able to emulate wads of amps and fx is just to powerful an option to ignore for the recording enthusiast. I should get a kick back from IK Multimedia from pimping them so hard!


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SirJamsalot
post May 14 2010, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 14 2010, 09:41 AM) *
Here is a screen cap of the preset I used in amplitude metal.


Todd, thanks for the recap on the settings! Great info, and yeah - we need to get you an IK Multimedia T-shirt, with your mug on it! wink.gif

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ May 14 2010, 09:53 AM) *
Todd, thanks for the recap on the settings! Great info, and yeah - we need to get you an IK Multimedia T-shirt, with your mug on it! wink.gif


and if forgot to ask - have you tried sitting one of these in your plugin chain? I was playing with it and it has a pretty good warming/widening effect to the crunch.

http://www.bteaudio.com/software/TSS/TSS.html


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