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> Power Attenuators, Anyone using them?
Berglmir
post Jul 29 2010, 08:17 PM
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Well,....er....yes...yesterday I informed you about my new buy: a Marshall JVM 205C (see here: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...howtopic=36082).

It´s a GREAT amp, but......a bit loud for my room! laugh.gif

Just wanted to check if some of you have experience with Power attenuators and if you could recommend one.
ATM I´m looking at THD Hot Plate (8 Ohms - and obviously in an other color! dry.gif )

- it´s quite expensive but I think it would allow me the following things:
-) Play my amp on full, dynamic setting at low volume
-) Use my full amp potential (pre- and power section) in Silent recording

Really looking forward to your feedback !

Cheers!
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ZakkWylde
post Jul 29 2010, 09:18 PM
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You can't use the powersection in silent recording mode! It's just the preamp signale going through a speaker simulation...
Using an attentuator will give you the possibility to turn the amp up until you get a saturated sound and then turn it down but it will still not sound as good as the amp on it's actual volume.

1. The attentuator drains tone BIG TIME, every attentuator does - some more, some less.
2. Volume is needed to get the speakers into vibration and get the air moving an this is not going to happen on low volumes!


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Berglmir
post Jul 29 2010, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Jul 29 2010, 10:18 PM) *
You can't use the powersection in silent recording mode! ....

1. The attentuator drains tone BIG TIME, every attentuator does - some more, some less.
2. Volume is needed to get the speakers into vibration and get the air moving an this is not going to happen on low volumes!


You are of course right - I did not express myself correctly!
What I meant with "Silent Recording" was that with the THD Hot Plate I should be able to disconnect the speakers from my amp, connect it with the attentuator and connect this one with my soundinterface of my PC. There I could just mute the monitors and go through my headphones - thus my expression of "silent recording" with the poweramp on fully. Could this work or am I daydreaming?! huh.gif

Regarding your two other points: Sounds logical as well to me but I think I might give this thingy a try - IF my first intention will work!

Thanks again for your expert knowledge mate - I´m already owing you a drink (collectable whenever you are in Vienna!) cool.gif
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ZakkWylde
post Jul 29 2010, 09:35 PM
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I might come back at that when I actually visit Vienna again, or we just meet up at this years octoberfest over in Munich^^

I think it might be possible to power down the signal in the Hot Plate but then you would have to run it through a speaker simulation...
Make sure you find out if it's possible though, the tube power can easily break your recording interface if it's not possible to power the signal down in the attentuator!!!


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- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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Berglmir
post Jul 29 2010, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Jul 29 2010, 10:35 PM) *
I might come back at that when I actually visit Vienna again, or we just meet up at this years octoberfest over in Munich^^

I think it might be possible to power down the signal in the Hot Plate but then you would have to run it through a speaker simulation...
Make sure you find out if it's possible though, the tube power can easily break your recording interface if it's not possible to power the signal down in the attentuator!!!


We have a deal & looking forward to it! wink.gif

I will check it at the store (Klangfarbe) but I think beside powering down the audible volume (not the actual on the amp) it´s other main use is to take the blast of the amp and transfer it safely to a sound interface.
Well I´ll tell you if this works out! smile.gif

Cu soon my friend (October is coming and as a matter of fact my company has an office in Munich - might come up there on company´s expense laugh.gif )
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MickeM
post Jul 29 2010, 10:16 PM
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Different attenuators have different functions, and I don't know about the Hotplate in specific. But if you get one that has a tap you can get the signal from after the poweramp, possibly with a cab-simulator.
Another option, cheaper but louder, is if you simply get a H&K Redbox for your recordings if you're keen on having the poweamp signal recorded.


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Daniel Realpe
post Jul 29 2010, 10:18 PM
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I had no idea this existed, but acoording to Zakk it's not such a good idea,


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Berglmir
post Jul 29 2010, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 29 2010, 11:16 PM) *
Different attenuators have different functions, and I don't know about the Hotplate in specific. But if you get one that has a tap you can get the signal from after the poweramp, possibly with a cab-simulator.
Another option, cheaper but louder, is if you simply get a H&K Redbox for your recordings if you're keen on having the poweamp signal recorded.


Thanks for your feedback - I´ll check out the Redbox but I currently looking for an possibility to use the full tone of the amp for recording but with the option to monitor through headphones!


QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Jul 29 2010, 11:18 PM) *
I had no idea this existed, but acoording to Zakk it's not such a good idea,


Yeah! I guess you have to pay the devil his due - but atm I like to find out if my undertaking can be successful?! wink.gif
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MickeM
post Jul 29 2010, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ Jul 29 2010, 11:18 PM) *
I had no idea this existed, but acoording to Zakk it's not such a good idea,

Yeah, two things. Attuators suck tone but also when it becomes lower it's less a sound experience. So it's a double edged negaive. Is an attenuator worth the trouble? I think that for all modern amps that sound great already at low volumes there's nothing to gain. But if you have a single channel amp that needs to be dimed to sound good it's useful.


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fkalich
post Jul 29 2010, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Jul 29 2010, 03:18 PM) *
1. The attentuator drains tone BIG TIME, every attentuator does - some more, some less.
2. Volume is needed to get the speakers into vibration and get the air moving an this is not going to happen on low volumes!


I tried one, used it maybe 5 minutes, that was enough for me to believe what I had heard, you are better off just working with stomp boxes and tone to get a good sound. I do like tube amps, but for the clean channel, I use stomp boxes to get the rocking sound.
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Staffy
post Jul 29 2010, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 29 2010, 11:16 PM) *
Another option, cheaper but louder, is if you simply get a H&K Redbox for your recordings if you're keen on having the poweamp signal recorded.


I used them with my combo-marshalls in the 80'ths to get the signal into the P.A-system to avoiding microphones, and what I remembered it worked really well....

And yeah, for the money a hot-plate costs, you can get a good bedroom-amp or some pedals that are even more versatile.... or use a computer amp sim for demos and the "real stuff" when You are gong to record something really serious.

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Berglmir
post Jul 29 2010, 11:31 PM
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It seems you all have made up your mind to convince me that an attenuator is a really bad idea! laugh.gif

Let´s try a different approach: Does anyone of you have an idea how my plan can become reality?
Short version of my goal:
1) Pre-amp and power amp online/working +
2) Input into Soundinterface/PC +
3) monitoring over headphones only

Main issue seems to be the combination of 1 + 3 correct?
If it can´t be done I will acknowledge it of course, but I´m not a 100% sure right now! cool.gif

BTW I checked out the Red Box - nice gadget but not useful for my goal. I actually have a Line out (XLR output) which I can use to go directly into my soundinterface (would you recommend the RB anyhow? If so - Why?!)

Thanks again for all your support here!


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fkalich
post Jul 29 2010, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE (Berglmir @ Jul 29 2010, 05:31 PM) *
It seems you all have made up your mind to convince me that an attenuator is a really bad idea! laugh.gif

Let´s try a different approach: Does anyone of you have an idea how my plan can become reality?
Short version of my goal:
1) Pre-amp and power amp online/working +
2) Input into Soundinterface/PC +
3) monitoring over headphones only

Main issue seems to be the combination of 1 + 3 correct?
If it can´t be done I will acknowledge it of course, but I´m not a 100% sure right now! cool.gif

BTW I checked out the Red Box - nice gadget but not useful for my goal. I actually have a Line out (XLR output) which I can use to go directly into my soundinterface (would you recommend the RB anyhow? If so - Why?!)

Thanks again for all your support here!


I think you just have to try it, and if it does not work, sell it. And you probably have to go at it a step at a time, and just see if if works for you. Strong opinions in my view help a person on the forum, it does not matter if it is right or wrong. All the happy camper glad handing that goes on typically is useless really. Good to see MickeM back more. I think he helped me more than anyone here, because when I started off playing 3 1/2 years ago, he told me my play was total crap, that if he was listening to me he would leave the room and go out and get a beer or something. And that really helped me. So even if you make this work, great. You may know better.

Myself I think attenuator was great for Boston, Tom Schultz was an MIT Engineering Grad (masters at MIT take a genius to get though), and he came up with this, and it worked at the time, but now, just there are better ways to do things.
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Berglmir
post Jul 29 2010, 11:50 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 30 2010, 12:43 AM) *
Strong opinions in my view help a person on the forum, it does not matter if it is right or wrong. All the happy camper glad handing that goes on typically is useless really.


If you got the impression that I´m ungrateful or unhappy with the feedback I´m getting I have to tell you that this is absolutely NOT the case. Quite the contrary - I really appreciate honest feedback (i.e Ivans Feedback on my collab takes - thanks again! wink.gif ) because only that way I can learn something - that´s also the main reason why I have asked here in the first place! biggrin.gif

Cheers!
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Berglmir
post Jul 30 2010, 08:13 PM
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Update: I found a setting on my amp which allows me to get good sound on (almost! wink.gif ) bedroom level on the amp itself and still getting great gain out of it - what a great amp this is! biggrin.gif

Now then - as I don´t want to start mic´ing I think I will take a closer look on the H&K Red Box suggestion of yours - got great reviews and as far as I have understood this gadget has NO effect on tone, right?!

Thanks again for your great & helpful feedback (otherwise I might have been stupif enough to buy a THD Hot Plate today) - glad I didn´t tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Berglmir: Jul 30 2010, 08:14 PM
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Magnum
post Jul 30 2010, 09:03 PM
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Hi,

If You don't want to burn all Your $$$ on the hotplate, check out this box...

It will do the attenuate AND you will have a Line / headphone out :

http://www.tubejuiceattenuators.com/

I use the 15 W model on my Supechamp XD and it works really well.

cool.gif
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 30 2010, 09:05 PM
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I don't use it but it looks useful wink.gif


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Berglmir
post Jul 30 2010, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE (Magnum @ Jul 30 2010, 10:03 PM) *
Hi,

If You don't want to burn all Your $$$ on the hotplate, check out this box...

It will do the attenuate AND you will have a Line / headphone out :

http://www.tubejuiceattenuators.com/

I use the 15 W model on my Supechamp XD and it works really well.

cool.gif


VERY interesting link - thank you very much for that! If the soundclips can be trusted this seems to be a very good gadget.
As I said a few minutes before I´m not unhappy with the sound I´m getting now (it´s micro, ultra sensible tweaking on the volume/gain/master knobs - but worth the effort) but you woke my original interst in attenuators again! laugh.gif

What a great forum this is! smile.gif

PS. Only thing that bothers me is this "9V to 12V/300mA to 800mA - 110V/60Hz - the tip is positive and needs to be a 1/8 inch male plug to connect with the attenuators DC Power "IN" jack. If you're using the TUBEJUICE in a country with a different power source than 110V/60Hz, you'll need to purchase a power transformer to convert your power to 110V/60Hz with is what the fan requires to operate." I´ve got 230 Volt /50 Hz....Meh! dry.gif

This post has been edited by Berglmir: Jul 30 2010, 09:41 PM
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thefireball
post Jul 30 2010, 10:31 PM
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Who is this ZakkWylde guy, people? laugh.gif He seems to know everything! You see him in the forums everywhere! Gives advice...what do you NOT know, man? laugh.gif This is indeed a compliment.


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Magnum
post Jul 30 2010, 10:42 PM
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QUOTE (Berglmir @ Jul 30 2010, 09:35 PM) *
VERY interesting link - thank you very much for that! If the soundclips can be trusted this seems to be a very good gadget.
As I said a few minutes before I´m not unhappy with the sound I´m getting now (it´s micro, ultra sensible tweaking on the volume/gain/master knobs - but worth the effort) but you woke my original interst in attenuators again! laugh.gif

What a great forum this is! smile.gif

PS. Only thing that bothers me is this "9V to 12V/300mA to 800mA - 110V/60Hz - the tip is positive and needs to be a 1/8 inch male plug to connect with the attenuators DC Power "IN" jack. If you're using the TUBEJUICE in a country with a different power source than 110V/60Hz, you'll need to purchase a power transformer to convert your power to 110V/60Hz with is what the fan requires to operate." I´ve got 230 Volt /50 Hz....Meh! dry.gif


Hi, The power adaptor is for driving the cooling fan ONLY. For my use on the 15W version i dont use it. I gues it will depend on your
enviroment and how heavy / long you will push it, but for normal "in house" use i dont need to use the fan on my model...

If you need it you can always get a 230VAC / DC Adaptor with that spec for about 10 $ in a local store...
(Its only the DC side you have to match with correct voltage/mA and plug / polarity ...)

cool.gif
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