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> Chords For Scales
Hisham Al-Sanea
post Dec 30 2007, 10:58 PM
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good work and explanation for GMC,ers Andrew


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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 30 2007, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Dec 30 2007, 03:37 PM) *
well, since you're adding flats/sharps when using different keys, i thought that the chords should and would sound differently when played in different keys, the problem now, is that that sounds like a tuning, and its not like that. If you grab the guitar, the chord can only sound 1 way unless its tuned differently. But if notes are altered (sharps/flats) then i think the notes affected have to change of sound.. is that right?... unsure.gif unsure.gif unsure.gif unsure.gif


Its just notation - a chord of D major sounds the same in any key and always consists of the exact same 3 notes - D, F# and A, how you write it changes - not least because D major doesn't appear as part of the chords for a scale in every scale, only the scales that have D, F# and A in them. Of course you can play a chord of D major in any context, and it will always be the same notes.


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FretDancer69
post Dec 31 2007, 02:03 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 30 2007, 04:00 PM) *
Its just notation - a chord of D major sounds the same in any key and always consists of the exact same 3 notes - D, F# and A, how you write it changes - not least because D major doesn't appear as part of the chords for a scale in every scale, only the scales that have D, F# and A in them. Of course you can play a chord of D major in any context, and it will always be the same notes.


i see now. Thanks Andrew smile.gif


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sam47
post Dec 31 2007, 02:04 AM
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This is gonna take me some time to grasp and learn. I just had to look.
The more I look the less I know. Think I'll just strum some random chords for awhile. My brains too full.
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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 31 2007, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (sam47 @ Dec 30 2007, 08:04 PM) *
This is gonna take me some time to grasp and learn. I just had to look.
The more I look the less I know. Think I'll just strum some random chords for awhile. My brains too full.


Theory can do that smile.gif The trick is to start at the beginning and work through it slowly.


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FretDancer69
post Dec 31 2007, 02:22 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 30 2007, 07:10 PM) *
Theory can do that smile.gif The trick is to start at the beginning and work through it slowly.


yeah its very confusing at first... but i have a hunger for these stuff, even if it confuses me more at start and after reading it over and over a few times...


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Spiderusalem
post Dec 31 2007, 02:30 AM
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4 months ago I knew nothing about theory. NOTHING. I didn't even know what an octave was (thought it was some kind of octopus or something). Now I know more about theory than friends that have been studying music for years and years (granted, they weren't working at it very hard). Its because I work with it every day and experiment with it all the time. It pays off I think...

This post has been edited by Spiderusalem: Dec 31 2007, 02:31 AM


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FretDancer69
post Feb 27 2008, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE
Finally B. Our notes are B, D and F. B to D is a minor 3rd, and B to D is a a diminished 5th - that relationship of notes makes our triad D diminished.


Hey Andrew.. i think that theres a mistake there.. im not sure.

B to D IS a minor third, but then again you're repeating (see underlined quote) the same interval but saying its a Diminished 5th? Dont you mean D to F? but that isnt a Diminished 5th either... its a minor 3rd as well!


Maybe the Diminished 5th that you mean is B to F perhaps..?

Can you explain please

This post has been edited by FretDancer69: Feb 27 2008, 10:18 PM


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DeepRoots
post Feb 27 2008, 10:21 PM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Feb 27 2008, 09:17 PM) *
Maybe the Diminished 5th that you mean is B to F perhaps..?

Im fairly sure that is what Andrew meant as B to F is a diminished 5th interval.
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FretDancer69
post Feb 27 2008, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE (DeepRoots @ Feb 27 2008, 03:21 PM) *
Im fairly sure that is what Andrew meant as B to F is a diminished 5th interval.


so its a mistake by andrew? (B to D = diminished)



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DeepRoots
post Feb 27 2008, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Feb 27 2008, 09:23 PM) *
so its a mistake by andrew? (B to D = diminished)


hey i dont want to say that out loud wink.gif

but yes you were correct B to D is a minor third, then D to F is another minor third. B to F is a dimished 5th.

Those three notes make up a diminished chord. Stack another minor third on top of the F (F->G#) and you have a dim7. So keep stacking up minor thirds on top of eachother.
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FretDancer69
post Feb 27 2008, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE (DeepRoots @ Feb 27 2008, 03:40 PM) *
hey i dont want to say that out loud wink.gif

but yes you were correct B to D is a minor third, then D to F is another minor third. B to F is a dimished 5th.

Those three notes make up a diminished chord. Stack another minor third on top of the F (F->G#) and you have a dim7. So keep stacking up minor thirds on top of eachother.


Yeah ok just making sure.

But theres something that bothers me, its the following:

At the start of the lesson, Andew said that the general chords used were:

I, IIm7, IIIm7, IVmaj7, V7, VIm, VIIdim

And we worked through the scale and figured out those chords.

Now, when he mentioned that the same rules applied to minor scales (And used A minor as an example), the list is way different:

Im, IIdim, III, IVm7, Vm7, VImaj7, VII7

Why is this?

The obvious answer would be that its because we are working with minor scales now, but can you please explain me why exactly the chords are changed?


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DeepRoots
post Feb 27 2008, 11:05 PM
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sure wink.gif

now first before reading this i want you to look back at the to formulae and see if they really are different?

......


To help explain this im going to go into relative minors okay:

C major has these notes : C-D-E-F-G-A-B

its relative minor (A minor) has these notes : A-B-C-D-E-F-G

same notes- different order smile.gif

Now look at those chord formulas- they contain the same rules but in a different order:

I, IIm7, IIIm7, IVmaj7, V7, VIm, VIIdim

Im, IIdim, III, IVm7, Vm7, VImaj7, VII7

Like the relative minors this is the same set of rules but the second starts at the 6th degree and follows the rule.
(ignore the numbers I, II III etc, just look at what type of chord the degrees turn into)

this might be a bit more clear:

major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, dim ---> repeat but start at 6th

minor, dim, major, minor, minor, major, major.

I didnt include the 7ths of the chords there for simplicity.

Is that clearer?
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FretDancer69
post Feb 27 2008, 11:27 PM
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yes it is clear. Excellent smile.gif , thanks for taking your time man, smile.gif


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DeepRoots
post Feb 27 2008, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Feb 27 2008, 10:27 PM) *
yes it is clear. Excellent smile.gif , thanks for taking your time man, smile.gif

you know i dont mind man. any time wink.gif
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Andrew Cockburn
post Feb 29 2008, 03:13 AM
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All I can say is, well done fretdancer for spotting a mistake, and well done Deep Roots for explaining it all smile.gif


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mattacuk
post Mar 3 2008, 07:20 PM
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Well I must say that this lesson is just fantastic smile.gif

Extrememly well prepared and presented in an easy to understand format - Very well done Andrew wink.gif


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skennington
post May 27 2008, 11:38 PM
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Well I just spent the last 45 min. reading this thread and I can say, I'm ready to read it again. Alot said here guys. Questions are answered befor they arise! Well put together once again Andrew. By no means is it clear to me at this point but I can now start to understand. I want to know all I can now about the theory behind playing guitar. I've learned ton's here at GMC the last 6 mo. but theory has been my shortcoming. Not anymore! Thanks guys! smile.gif

Steve


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Andrew Cockburn
post May 28 2008, 01:00 PM
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As Obi Wan Kenobi said to Luke Skywalker - "You've just taken your first step into a larger universe" smile.gif

Take it slowly and it will all make sense eventually, and of course ask questions!


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Pi38
post May 28 2008, 04:13 PM
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I'm very confused, but I'm sure that I'll catch on after reading it a few more times.
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