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> Metronome And Lessons.
RodneyU
post Apr 17 2007, 12:07 AM
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Ok, maybe this is a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyways.

So I understand how to use a metronome when working with scales, but working them with a lesson like this ONE I'm not sure about.

Maybe I'm just over thinking, I don't know. But can someone give me a step by step break down on practing a lesson with the metronome.

Is it as basic as:

#1: Start slow 50-60 BPM
#2: Play one note per beat
#3: Pratice, progessively speed up as you feel more comfortable.

unsure.gif

Let the ridicule begin.
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Ben C
post Apr 17 2007, 01:23 AM
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All I really do is use the metronome until I can play the whole thing w/ no mistakes at the right speed. I think all the lessons list what speed they are at, so you shouldn't have a problem with finding that out.


I say do that, and make sure your in time by using a backing track or something. Then you should be good.


I'm not exactly an expert on using metronomes though , so I may not be the best person to ask.

Good Luck though!

This post has been edited by Ben C: Apr 17 2007, 01:27 AM


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crazyfreestyler5...
post Apr 17 2007, 04:24 AM
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I would like to know this as well
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Ryan
post Apr 17 2007, 04:33 AM
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Yea im lil confused on how to everything fits 2...its much easier haveing sheet music in front of you..knowing when to plya 16th notes..and when not 2......


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Kristofer Dahl
post Apr 17 2007, 08:15 AM
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Good question!

For this kind of lesson the metronome could serve two purposes...

*If you aren't up to tempo with some of the pentatonic licks, count the notes, determine the note value (more about this in the metronome lesson) - sit down and practice it separately before playing the whole piece.

* If even the supplied slow backing are to fast for you, you could play the solo to a metrnome at first, or parts of it.

Naturally, this lesson isn't as technically demanding as many others we have. If you feel you can nail all the licks perfectly then you don't need the metronome, just go for the backings!

Kris


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Robin
post Apr 17 2007, 09:01 AM
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Hmm, I never really use metronome for lessons like this. I only use it when I practice, for instance, speed picking or sweeping. When I practice blues licks from GMC I just use them when I jam around.


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mattacuk
post Apr 17 2007, 09:04 AM
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I must admit, I find it hard deciding which note values i should be playing sometimes. If i can see each lick devides into equal parts im good. If 4 notes per lick, i know thats 16th notes and away I go. Or maybe 6 notes per lick, im playing 16th note triplets;

e|--------------------|
B|--------------------|
G|--------------------|
D|---7p-5--------7~---|
A|--------7-6h-7------|
E|--------------------|

But a *7* note lick like this might throw me!

e|-----------------------|
B|-----------------------|
G|---------5-5mb---5mb---|
D|---------------7-------|
A|---5-6-7---------------|
E|-----------------------|

Should I practice something like this to sixteenth notes, or sixteenth note triplets also? smile.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 17 2007, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Apr 17 2007, 04:04 AM) *
I must admit, I find it hard deciding which note values i should be playing sometimes. If i can see each lick devides into equal parts im good. If 4 notes per lick, i know thats 16th notes and away I go. Or maybe 6 notes per lick, im playing 16th note triplets;

e|--------------------|
B|--------------------|
G|--------------------|
D|---7p-5--------7~---|
A|--------7-6h-7------|
E|--------------------|

But a *7* note lick like this might throw me!

e|-----------------------|
B|-----------------------|
G|---------5-5mb---5mb---|
D|---------------7-------|
A|---5-6-7---------------|
E|-----------------------|

Should I practice something like this to sixteenth notes, or sixteenth note triplets also? smile.gif


This is a limitation of tab; no timing information, and no information on rests where you don;t play a note. With sheet music there would be no ambiguity as the note lengths would also be included (but the flip side is there would be no fingering).

So, the answer is that you should practice the notes as what they actually are, the trouble is that there is no info to tell you what they actually are ... you need to develop your ear to figure it out, listen to the backing track or ask the author.

I know that's not too helpful, sorry sad.gif

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Apr 17 2007, 02:28 PM


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Kristofer Dahl
post Apr 17 2007, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 17 2007, 03:27 PM) *
This is a limitation of tab; no timing information, and no information on rests where you don;t play a note. With sheet music there would be no ambiguity as the note lengths would also be included (but the flip side is there would be no fingering).

So, the answer is that you should practice the notes as what they actually are, the trouble is that there is no info to tell you what they actually are ... you need to develop your ear to figure it out, listen to the backing track or ask the author.

I know that's not too helpful, sorry sad.gif


I started typing a reply to this too, but... this is tricky to explain.

One advice would be, if the notes are plaid straight, to not care about note values - just find a phrase that repeats comfortably so that you can practice it to a metronome. Whether you are playing triplets with rests or whatever really isn't very important.


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RodneyU
post Apr 17 2007, 02:59 PM
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Thanks Kris, Andrew, mattachuk, everyone! I was missing something, I need to go back a watch the metronome lesson again.
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 17 2007, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (RodneyU @ Apr 17 2007, 09:59 AM) *
Thanks Kris, Andrew, mattachuk, everyone! I was missing something, I need to go back a watch the metronome lesson again.


One final point - in your original post you said "play 1 note per beat" - that actually depends on the riff and the timing of the notes. It so far more common to be playing 4 notes per beat (16ths) or 6 notes per beat (16th triplets) - again it depends on the riff. If you aren;t familiar with what a 16th or 16th triplet ism check out Time 101 here.


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mattacuk
post Apr 17 2007, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Apr 17 2007, 02:34 PM) *
I started typing a reply to this too, but... this is tricky to explain.

One advice would be, if the notes are plaid straight, to not care about note values - just find a phrase that repeats comfortably so that you can practice it to a metronome. Whether you are playing triplets with rests or whatever really isn't very important.


Andrew,Kris, so your saying if a Lick has 7 notes just practice 7 notes per click evenly and and time as you would any other note value? I can work with this smile.gif

Ive been here at GMC for a while now and ive been getting on well with Metronome. I studied Kris's advice and use a Metronome for EVERYTHING i play. I wouldnt dream of not useing one now! wink.gif

I was worried about playing non triplets, sixteenth notes etc for sometime. I have some great Paul Gilbert TAB's from the shred special of Total Guitar mag. Alot of the notes were all sixteenth notes.....then towards the end none of the licks fitted into these "backets"!


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RodneyU
post Apr 17 2007, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 17 2007, 10:19 AM) *
One final point - in your original post you said "play 1 note per beat" - that actually depends on the riff and the timing of the notes. It so far more common to be playing 4 notes per beat (16ths) or 6 notes per beat (16th triplets) - again it depends on the riff. If you aren;t familiar with what a 16th or 16th triplet ism check out Time 101 here.


I definately will. I think alot of my issues deal with timing. wink.gif
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 17 2007, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Apr 17 2007, 10:22 AM) *
Andrew,Kris, so your saying if a Lick has 7 notes just practice 7 notes per click evenly and and time as you would any other note value? I can work with this smile.gif


Not exactly ... if you have 7 notes, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that they will be played in the original piece as a 7th-plet - it is far more likely to be 6 16ths and a rest, or maybe 6 16th triplets and another 16th, or 6 quarter notes and a 16th .... there are quite a few possibilities. The point it you need to know what they actually are, or you will be practicing the timing incorrectly. My point above is that it is hard to figure it out, but you need to know somehow - usually by listening.


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mattacuk
post Apr 17 2007, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 17 2007, 08:43 PM) *
Not exactly ... if you have 7 notes, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that they will be played in the original piece as a 7th-plet - it is far more likely to be 6 16ths and a rest, or maybe 6 16th triplets and another 16th, or 6 quarter notes and a 16th .... there are quite a few possibilities. The point it you need to know what they actually are, or you will be practicing the timing incorrectly. My point above is that it is hard to figure it out, but you need to know somehow - usually by listening.



Guitar got a whole lot more complicated sad.gif So i could play a 7 note lick as a sixteenth note triplet with a "rest"? how does this rest work??

thanks!!

This post has been edited by mattacuk: Apr 17 2007, 09:28 PM


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mysql> SELECT * FROM master_name WHERE ((firstname = 'Paul') AND (lastname = 'Gilbert'));


"The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 17 2007, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Apr 17 2007, 04:21 PM) *
Guitar got a whole lot more complicated sad.gif So i could play a 7 note lick as a sixteenth note triplet with a "rest"? how does this rest work??

thanks!!


I'm sorry to complicate things ... lets take a step back here smile.gif

When you see 7 notes on a tab, you know the strings they are on and you know the frets they are on, so you know the fingering.

What you don't know is the timing.

Those 7 notes could be 7 quarter notes, 7 8th notes, 7 16th notes, 7 16th triplets, 4 8th notes and 3 16th notes, 1 16th note and 6 16th triplets or any combination of those and a million other timing possibilities.

What I am trying to say and I'm sorry if it has been confusing, is that the tab alone does not give you enough information to figure out the timing of the lick - you need additional information.

Many licks, especially speedpicking licks will consist of a number of notes of the same length - and looking at the tab it is usually a fair assumption that you can divide them up in this way, but when you see something like 7 notes you have to ask yourself what the intention was - 7 is not divisible by 4 (for 16ths) or 6 (for 16th triplets) so what does that leave you with? It could be an incomplete lick with some extra notes on the next page making up a regular number, or the lick might just stop there and the remainder of it could be rests, or there could be a mixture of different timings - the point is that you don't know without more information. More information might be in the accompanying text, or you might need to figure it out by listening to the piece ...

Did that help?


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mattacuk
post Apr 17 2007, 09:59 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 17 2007, 09:42 PM) *
I'm sorry to complicate things ... lets take a step back here smile.gif

When you see 7 notes on a tab, you know the strings they are on and you know the frets they are on, so you know the fingering.

What you don't know is the timing.

Those 7 notes could be 7 quarter notes, 7 8th notes, 7 16th notes, 7 16th triplets, 4 8th notes and 3 16th notes, 1 16th note and 6 16th triplets or any combination of those and a million other timing possibilities.

What I am trying to say and I'm sorry if it has been confusing, is that the tab alone does not give you enough information to figure out the timing of the lick - you need additional information.

Many licks, especially speedpicking licks will consist of a number of notes of the same length - and looking at the tab it is usually a fair assumption that you can divide them up in this way, but when you see something like 7 notes you have to ask yourself what the intention was - 7 is not divisible by 4 (for 16ths) or 6 (for 16th triplets) so what does that leave you with? It could be an incomplete lick with some extra notes on the next page making up a regular number, or the lick might just stop there and the remainder of it could be rests, or there could be a mixture of different timings - the point is that you don't know without more information. More information might be in the accompanying text, or you might need to figure it out by listening to the piece ...

Did that help?


Andrew,
thank for your patients...hehe wink.gif I fully understand tabs give fingering info, but no timeing information. I think my extremely poor math is letting me down here!(I probably need a math 101 lesson) I thankyou for your help as i must succeed in playing correct time!!!

I also understand there are varying reasons for non devisable lick as you have mentioned above. Im just concerned i may not be able to work the reason out !! blink.gif From what I understand, a non devisable lick could simple carry onto the next page OR maybe there is just a "rest" at the end. Whatever the reason I need more information to help me out ?! smile.gif


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"The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 17 2007, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Apr 17 2007, 04:59 PM) *
Andrew,
thank for your patients...hehe wink.gif I fully understand tabs give fingering info, but no timeing information. I think my extremely poor math is letting me down here!(I probably need a math 101 lesson) I thankyou for your help as i must succeed in playing correct time!!!

I also understand there are varying reasons for non devisable lick as you have mentioned above. Im just concerned i may not be able to work the reason out !! blink.gif From what I understand, a non devisable lick could simple carry onto the next page OR maybe there is just a "rest" at the end. Whatever the reason I need more information to help me out ?! smile.gif


You got it :-) Sorry of I was patronizing at all - sometimes the only thing to do is to use a tool like "The amazing slow downer" - slow it down and just listen to the timing over and over until it clicks! Best is if there is music notation as well as the tab, or it is in Guitar Pro format - that way you can figure it out.

Also, what Kris was saying in his post was to not get hung up on the actual note values, just find a unit of the tab that repeats in a regular way, e.g. on the beat, and work on that regardless of what you need to set your metronome to.


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mattacuk
post Apr 17 2007, 10:33 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 17 2007, 10:14 PM) *
You got it :-) Sorry of I was patronizing at all - sometimes the only thing to do is to use a tool like "The amazing slow downer" - slow it down and just listen to the timing over and over until it clicks! Best is if there is music notation as well as the tab, or it is in Guitar Pro format - that way you can figure it out.

Also, what Kris was saying in his post was to not get hung up on the actual note values, just find a unit of the tab that repeats in a regular way, e.g. on the beat, and work on that regardless of what you need to set your metronome to.


Not at all, I appreciate the advice. Ive just been lucky untill now the bulk of what ive been practicing has been easily devisable! This is very usefull information. maybe you could now elaborate on what "rests" are for me?

I am asumeing most music can be played as either sixteenth notes, or sixteenth note triplets then regardless of the amount of notes per lick? just cycle through it?

This post has been edited by mattacuk: Apr 17 2007, 11:08 PM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 17 2007, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE (mattacuk @ Apr 17 2007, 05:33 PM) *
Not at all, I appreciate the advice. Ive just been lucky untill now the bulk of what ive been practicing has been easily devisable! This is very usefull information. maybe you could now elaborate on what "rests" are for me?


A rest is quite simple a period of time for which you don't play anything - rests come in flavours to match all of the notes, so you can have 16th rests, quarter rests etc. IN music notation they all have their own symbols, but don't appear at all on tabs.

QUOTE (mattacuk @ Apr 17 2007, 05:33 PM) *
I am asumeing most music can be played as either sixteenth notes, or sixteenth note triplets then regardless of the amount of notes per lick? just cycle through it?


I guess you can yes - if you have a 7 note lick, for the sake of argument, it might be 7 16th notes and a 16th rest making a total of 8 16th notes (you won't see the rest on the tab of course). Musical phrases usually align to bars, so you should immediately be suspicious of something that doesn't. If you played it as the author intended with the rest, you would get 2 complete cycles per bar.

If you played it without the rest (since you have no way of knowing it is there from the tab) you would cycle around and play the riff once, then immediately start again, play it a second time (making 14/16ths) then you would get in another 2 16ths by the end of the bar, meaning that you would get out of sync with the bars, and also with your metronome unless you set it to play 16ths (you normally set it to play quarters).

If you continued like this, at each bar marker you would be starting the riff 2 16ths later. Eventually, after quite a few bars you would get back in sync with the bars ... sounding confusing again, sorry sad.gif

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Apr 17 2007, 11:48 PM


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