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> Learning Vs Practicing Vs Playing, How do you spend your time with the guitar?
Mudbone
post Aug 30 2010, 03:46 AM
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One observation I have made since I've gotten serious about playing guitar is the way skill develops. There are three distinct steps. The first step is learning, that is putting the lick, riff or scale into memory. The next step is to practice it to perfection, so when you play there are no mistakes. The last step is playing the lick, riff or scale.When I say play I mean it comes naturally, you don't have to think about it. If you still have to devote most of your attention to playing it right you're still practicing.

So just to reiterate what I just said, here are the three sequential steps:

Learning: memorizing the scale, lick, riff etc. It doesn't have to be up to speed, just as long as you know which note follows the next.

Practicing: Bringing the learned scale, riff etc up to speed and to perfection.

Playing: Knowing it by heart, and can play it naturally. You are then ready to rock!

So do you guys see it the same way? Also, every time you pick up the guitar, how much time do you spend on each one these? I'm really curious to see how everyone else spends their guitar time smile.gif I might even do a poll tongue.gif


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Daniel Realpe
post Aug 30 2010, 03:57 AM
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yep, you summed it up pretty much,

That's the way I did it with the techniques I know,

then comes the theory, writing, recording, playing live stuff, which I guess are the next steps,

but for those you have to have those first steps really well handled



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OrganisedConfusi...
post Aug 30 2010, 04:15 AM
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I really only write songs, record and play live now. I don't tend to play guitar to learn new techniques anymore. I'm 26 now so probably too old to learn new stuff.


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SirJamsalot
post Aug 30 2010, 04:37 AM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Aug 29 2010, 08:15 PM) *
I really only write songs, record and play live now. I don't tend to play guitar to learn new techniques anymore. I'm 26 now so probably too old to learn new stuff.



you young kids really know how to hurt an old guy's feelings tongue.gif


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maharzan
post Aug 30 2010, 05:06 AM
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+1 Sir. smile.gif

I am still learning at 32. just got serious at 31. feels painful at times.. :S


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 30 2010, 05:45 AM
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yeah! You explained it very clear and it's a cool way to describe the process of incorporating a new idea to our playing. I always experiment those three steps when I am learning a new song/lick/scale. I couldn't say how much time I spend on each one because it depends on the difficulty of the idea that I'm learning.

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Aug 30 2010, 12:15 AM) *
I really only write songs, record and play live now. I don't tend to play guitar to learn new techniques anymore. I'm 26 now so probably too old to learn new stuff.



We are never too old to learn something new! wink.gif


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Azzaboi
post Aug 30 2010, 07:33 AM
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I use to, but I don't believe in the learn / practice / play anymore... (I did it too sloppy and created bad habits)
You should first learn how to practice it correctly! Concentrate on the purpose of the exercise. Break it down.

You can spend hours practicing away and getting nowhere, while it does help a bit and you can break through the mistakes, it can also inforce bad habits if you don't iron them out. Pinpoint which is more difficult for you and concentrate mostly on those, that's how you truely develop! Most (including myself) tend to avoid which is hard and just play on what we already know, which isn't learning.

Instead:
- Isolate the difficulty areas of the riff or playing to work on
- Discover why is it difficult
- Create variations of that and break it down (create loop mini exercises for that part are good)
- Separate left and right hands and analyse each
- Work on transition and timing
- Work on dynamics, getting it to sound awesome
- Practice in bursts
- Play slowly with the minimum amount of movement (distance = time)
- Speed up with a metronome to breaking point (stop mistakes before they happen)
- Slow down again and perfect it

Rinse and then repeat, always repeat...
Have sections perfected and then merge them into each other.

Then you can stop making the same mistakes over and over and actually improve.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Aug 30 2010, 07:43 AM


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Mudbone
post Aug 30 2010, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Aug 30 2010, 02:33 AM) *
I use to, but I don't believe in the learn / practice / play anymore... (I did it too sloppy and created bad habits)
You should first learn how to practice it correctly! Concentrate on the purpose of the exercise. Break it down.

You can spend hours practicing away and getting nowhere, while it does help a bit and you can break through the mistakes, it can also inforce bad habits if you don't iron them out. Pinpoint which is more difficult for you and concentrate mostly on those, that's how you truely develop! Most (including myself) tend to avoid which is hard and just play on what we already know, which isn't learning.

Instead:
- Isolate the difficulty areas of the riff or playing to work on
- Discover why is it difficult
- Create variations of that and break it down
- Separate left and right hands and analyse each
- Work on transition and timing
- Work on dynamics, getting it to sound awesome
- Practice in bursts
- Play slowly with the minimum amount of movement (distance = time)
- Speed up with a metronome to breaking point (stop mistakes before they happen)
- Slow down again and perfect it

Rinse and then repeat, always repeat...
Have sections perfected and then merge them into each other.

Then you can stop making the same mistakes over and over and actually improve.


What you just described falls perfectly into the learn/practice/play philosophy smile.gif My post was oversimplified for the sake of keeping it simple, concise, and to the point. All the tips you listed (which are great and much appreciated smile.gif) fall into the "practice" stage. I think what you are trying to describe is effective practice, which is another subject.


QUOTE (maharzan @ Aug 30 2010, 12:06 AM) *
+1 Sir. smile.gif

I am still learning at 32. just got serious at 31. feels painful at times.. :S


I feel your pain maharzan smile.gif I'm 29 and just started to get serious with the guitar. Keep the faith dude, you can achieve your goals! I've seen your vids, and I hope I can play that good in one year.


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"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens


Gear:

Guitars: Uncle Rufus' Twanger Classic
Amps: Mississippi Boom Box
Mojo: Hammer of Odin and a pair of Ox gonads
Inspiration: Samuel Adams Boston Lager

Zero to Hero: 1,387/10,000

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maharzan
post Aug 30 2010, 09:39 AM
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sure you can, Mudbone. It just takes faith and 8-10 hours of daily (at least 4 sometimes) practice. Someone said, even a monkey can do it. I just became that monkey for the whole year. biggrin.gif

It feels easier to play now but there are so many techniques to learn. The "feeling" is still so far far away when you kinda get out of that monkey stage. biggrin.gif


Oh btw, I still need to tune my guitar.. wink.gif


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Mudbone
post Aug 30 2010, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE (maharzan @ Aug 30 2010, 04:39 AM) *
sure you can, Mudbone. It just takes faith and 8-10 hours of daily (at least 4 sometimes) practice. Someone said, even a monkey can do it. I just became that monkey for the whole year. biggrin.gif

It feels easier to play now but there are so many techniques to learn. The "feeling" is still so far far away when you kinda get out of that monkey stage. biggrin.gif


Oh btw, I still need to tune my guitar.. wink.gif


8 to 10 hours a day? I don't know if I have time for that lol Right now I'm doing two hours a day, but next month, I'm gonna start doing three, and hopefully work my way up to four hours a day. I want to ease into it, don't want to get tendinitis sad.gif


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He who laughs last thinks slowest.

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens


Gear:

Guitars: Uncle Rufus' Twanger Classic
Amps: Mississippi Boom Box
Mojo: Hammer of Odin and a pair of Ox gonads
Inspiration: Samuel Adams Boston Lager

Zero to Hero: 1,387/10,000

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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Aug 30 2010, 12:37 PM
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Good question. If I work on original piece, I first memorize it, then, I go trough the whole song number of times to see where are my weak spots, then I memorize those difficult parts and focus on them. Put my metronome on 70, repeat, repeat repeat... when I learned every phrase, I try to do it whole, then of course... I see whether I have problems with transitions, then work on them...
and finally, click record button, and record until I get it.... usually between 10 and 50 takes...


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maharzan
post Aug 30 2010, 01:33 PM
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Yep Mudbone, the more time you give the earlier you learn. All the great stars like satch, vai, all probably gave 16 hours a day during their student ages where you have more time than when you are working.. smile.gif


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