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> Tremolo + Sweep = Blazing Speed?
Azzaboi
post Sep 29 2010, 11:33 PM
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I've been into some holiday bargans with online auctions and got some very cheap books and a collection of dvd lessons for the guitar!

One of the crazier DVDs is...

Doug Marks' Method Metod - Speed Kills 2010
by Michael Angelo Batio

Putting the bad haircut and showing off playing four guitars at a time aside, he seems to know his stuff and it's been helpful.

The first issue I noticed with my picking is I'm using economy picking rather than alternating pick. Like two down picks when changing strings. Does this cause issues with hand confusion at speed? I'm relearning alternate picking.

However, the major possible breakthrough is using tremolo picking...

Pick Tremolo involves rapid picking a single note continuously alternating down and up strokes of the pick from the wrist. I can play this extremely fast if anchoring my middle finger on the base. He suggests that is the maximum speed you can currently pick at. It's like 20x faster than floating. Is anchoring a bad habit?

I was playing around with it doing some exercises and I never could change the string when picking like that before, but figured I can kinda sweep across and now can blaze across 3 or 4 strings, before my hand wants to go back to floating.

I'm now really curious to know if:
Tremolo (Alternate Pick) + Sweep = is the key to Blazing Speed?


Any tips, lessons or suggestions to help me along? Does anyone else play like this?


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 30 2010, 01:20 AM
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Well, if it's working for you go with it! smile.gif I usually plant my hand at the bridge so that I can palm mute when the spirit moves me which is usually quite a bit. You are still at the point where you are working out your particular "style" of playing so being open to what works well for you is very important.

Being able to go between strings is a big hurdle. I'm glad to hear that your new approach is helping with that. Maybe record a video and post it on youtube so we can get a better idea of what you are talking about. Until then, keep practicing and refining your technique. Try to apply it to scales, shapes, solos you have already learned.

See you sat for a lesson!

Practice!
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jafomatic
post Sep 30 2010, 01:31 AM
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You're gonna want to be really careful with that tremor/tremolo/whatever picking. Warm up twice as long before trying that or you might find yourself enjoying a long vacation from using your right arm.



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Todd Simpson
post Sep 30 2010, 02:29 AM
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QUOTE (jafomatic @ Sep 29 2010, 08:31 PM) *
You're gonna want to be really careful with that tremor/tremolo/whatever picking. Warm up twice as long before trying that or you might find yourself enjoying a long vacation from using your right arm.


A very good point. As we always do in our saturday vid chat lessons, DO YOUR STRETCHES! smile.gif And after playing, do a cool down and perhaps get an ice cube and just for a few minutes ice down your fore arms if they are a bit sore. It will reduce swelling and soreness so that your next practice session isn't fraught with pain.

Todd


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Azzaboi
post Sep 30 2010, 03:36 AM
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It wears my arm down but I take breaks and yep do my stretches.

I've been experimenting a lot with picking - thanks to you Todd. Yeah, I guess your right to say working out my particular "style" of playing.

I always thought of the tremolo picking technique as just a one note trick. It said to use that technique as how you should pick at speed. Was rather messy at first, cleaned it up and it's probably the best picking I've had, why not develop it for entire playing. My hand still wants to float moving around strings, but it's a interesting style, and much more controlled even when it floats. I don't know, it's like realigned my picking into small quick up/down/up on a string for the wrist and all the arm has to do is move up and down strings. I'm sure before I was messing up with fingers/wrist but hard to tell.

I use to keep looking at what my fretboard hand is working on and not paying too much attention to my picking hand, so I swapped focus. Developed pure alternative picking just looking at the picking 'outside/inside the strings' - Todds Lessons came in hand, and added tremolo style speed to them. Then relaxed, didn't focus on either hand, and I was crusing up speed and broke my limit by quite a bit.

I also noticed reading blocks of notes in advance on the sheet music rather than note by note keeps up the speed without slip ups. Speed reading technique. happy.gif

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Sep 30 2010, 03:44 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 30 2010, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Sep 29 2010, 10:36 PM) *
It wears my arm down but I take breaks and yep do my stretches.

I've been experimenting a lot with picking - thanks to you Todd. Yeah, I guess your right to say working out my particular "style" of playing.
..... Todds Lessons came in hand, and added tremolo style speed to them. Then relaxed, didn't focus on either hand, and I was crusing up speed and broke my limit by quite a bit.

I also noticed reading blocks of notes in advance on the sheet music rather than note by note keeps up the speed without slip ups. Speed reading technique. happy.gif


Great to hear the Saturday Video Chat Lessons are helping you grow as a player smile.gif I"m thrilled to hear it. You've always made really good progress in each lesson. You typically pick up the pattern very quickly which is impressive by itself. It sounds like you are on the right track, just keep working through it and you will find the "Azza" method smile.gif See you Saturday for our next lesson at our NEW TIME 5:00 PM E.S.T. like we talked about last time.

Practice!
Todd


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jstcrsn
post Sep 30 2010, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Sep 30 2010, 03:36 AM) *
It wears my arm down but I take breaks and yep do my stretches.

I've been experimenting a lot with picking - thanks to you Todd. Yeah, I guess your right to say working out my particular "style" of playing.

I always thought of the tremolo picking technique as just a one note trick. It said to use that technique as how you should pick at speed. Was rather messy at first, cleaned it up and it's probably the best picking I've had, why not develop it for entire playing. My hand still wants to float moving around strings, but it's a interesting style, and much more controlled even when it floats. I don't know, it's like realigned my picking into small quick up/down/up on a string for the wrist and all the arm has to do is move up and down strings. I'm sure before I was messing up with fingers/wrist but hard to tell.

I use to keep looking at what my fretboard hand is working on and not paying too much attention to my picking hand, so I swapped focus. Developed pure alternative picking just looking at the picking 'outside/inside the strings' - Todds Lessons came in hand, and added tremolo style speed to them. Then relaxed, didn't focus on either hand, and I was crusing up speed and broke my limit by quite a bit.

I also noticed reading blocks of notes in advance on the sheet music rather than note by note keeps up the speed without slip ups. Speed reading technique. happy.gif


I've noticced lately , that if i practice to long,my fingers get to tired and i compensate by holding the pick with my hand locked and not the fingers in the correct way, so I am stopping alt. picking practice when i notice , this is to try to keep good tecnique
which looks to be essential with all shredders
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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Sep 30 2010, 09:50 PM
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I must check out that Doug Marks, it sounds very interesting.


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Azzaboi
post Oct 1 2010, 12:06 AM
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I've noticed from when I first started picking till now I have totally changed - kinda got two styles now!

I use to play picking hand fingers curled in a bit.
Using the index and thumb in a ring 'open circle' shape on the pick.
Picking with the flat edge. Playing hand sideways.
Lots of swing in the wrist and smaller movements with the finger/thumb.
Great for slow blues, but throw some speed into it and becomes a mess after a point.


My fingers now stretch out except the index which tightly curls back to the thumb but still relaxed.
Index finger's nail is finally parellel to the string rather than pointing towards it.
Pick sits nicely on the side of the index curled, edges in a nock, and and it's perfectly straight every time - doesn't rotate.
Stays in place with minimum amount of thumb pressure clamped over.
Only the pick tip shows (and edge of thumb if a slight twist for harmonics).
Pick angled almost 90 degrees (perpendicular) to the strings.
Play up and down alternative picking - copying the way I learnt how to do tremolo.
Movement is very slight from the wrist!

Even if it didn't improve, it's looks way kewler anyway - so I was going for a win/win! lol

I can switch, floating and anchored (both improving). Kinda makes me think 'Through the Fire and Flames - Dragonforce' - just the intro going from nice clean alternative picking to insane! I'm wondering if they do the same locking into a tremolo style (or just hammers)? Is that a good enough goal? lol

Keep the timing between the two hands is my major goal. Picking use to be slower than the fretting, now it's the other way around. I still need a lot of work, but I think it's a breakthrough so far for me.

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Oct 1 2010, 12:08 AM


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Azzaboi
post Oct 1 2010, 02:46 AM
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@Vasilije and jstcrsn - yeah the Doug Marks Method Series seems old skool but pretty good for starting off shredding.

I was working out those two picking styles and then went on exercise 6 - he tells me what I just figured!

He says: Think of the pick as a painters brush...

Playing slowly you can add much more details to sound good - moving the fingers and thumb to add harmonics, mute and fine pick with a smooth flow (like what I've previously been doing). You can be more looser to play light or dig into it, etc. This gives your music personal quality and feeling.

However you can't never do this at speed, no professional I know can except for one person whos not even pro.

Your picking hand must change to be rigid when going from medium to high speeds. Whatever they use floating or anchored, they never move the thumb and index finger.

I guess that's why some of the speed demons end up being technique robots? It's good to have both worlds!
I've been noticing this sometimes, but could never put my finger on it!

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Oct 1 2010, 02:53 AM


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Keep_Rocking
post Oct 1 2010, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Sep 29 2010, 07:33 PM) *
I've been into some holiday bargans with online auctions and got some very cheap books and a collection of dvd lessons for the guitar!

One of the crazier DVDs is...

Doug Marks' Method Metod - Speed Kills 2010
by Michael Angelo Batio

Any tips, lessons or suggestions to help me along? Does anyone else play like this?

This guy is very good on that!
And another two alternate-picking gods are: Paul Gilbert and Vinnie Moore. Both of them have video lessons on youtube, give them a try! There are amazing tips there!
Paul gilbert's "Intense Guitar" and Vinnie Moore's "Advanced Lead Guitar Techniques" and "Speed Accuracy And Articulation".
Good practicing.
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Azzaboi
post Oct 1 2010, 06:56 PM
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Cheers Keep_Rocking,

Paul Gibert is one of my favs for picking techniques, I learnt my pick aggression and harmonics from him smile.gif

Troy Stetina - Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar taught me minimum finger movement is the key to speed and amazing speed technique (if you can survive it). I like how he explains things in a lot of his books - this one is a bit more extreme.

Todd lessons where bring me up to speed with awesome alternative picking lessons.

I alway use to get to a playing speed limit and not be able to past it - Doug Mark DVD final clicked on it.
Changing fingers and thumb from flexable (slow speed) to rigid (at high speed), something so small but makes a huge difference. Now all the other lessons are easier to boost on.


I like using a collection, trying them all out and picking out my own style or the best from each player.
All that's just for my picking and lead guitar playing, I've still got a huge collection to get through for my rhythm side!

This post has been edited by Azzaboi: Oct 1 2010, 06:59 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 1 2010, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (Azzaboi @ Oct 1 2010, 01:56 PM) *
Cheers Keep_Rocking,

Paul Gibert is one of my favs for picking techniques, I learnt my pick aggression and harmonics from him smile.gif

Troy Stetina - Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar taught me minimum finger movement is the key to speed and amazing speed technique (if you can survive it). I like how he explains things in a lot of his books - this one is a bit more extreme.

Todd lessons where bring me up to speed with awesome alternative picking lessons.

LIke Bruce Lee said, listen to everything, absorb what is useful. Sounds like you are on your way smile.gif

Todd


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Oct 5 2010, 03:17 PM
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It's all about practicing slow. It mights sound too simple, but it's just the way it is. If you rehearse on slow tempos all the time, your brain will have time to adapt to any picking style. It will create muscle memory for that particular movement, and once it's been memorized, it can be later recalled at will, and not thinking about it. So, IMO, your goal is not that much in analyzing what kind of movements exist, I think your goal should be to practice as much as possible, and as cleaner as possible. The rest will come in time, there is no need to think about it that much. As long as you play what you like, and if you practice hard and often, all those things from books will come wetter you read them or not.


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