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> Frustrated...
Scorpiotic
post Nov 26 2010, 06:53 PM
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Hey all,

I've been trying to get my head around this for a time now, not able...
So i'm reaching for help to the masses;

I do know many, probably most, songs change key one or four times within itself, but i can't see how to do so without making it sound "sour".

The frustation for me is that there is tonnes of music released where combinations of notes that "should not"sound well together, do so (for instance from the album Nightmare by A7X and Asylum by Disturbed).

Both awesome bands with awesome music, but i can't wrap my head around their writing "techniques" , how they combine notes...
I'm trying to see what scale or pattern or whatever they have used to create their music, but i simply can't, wether it be riffs, lead og solo's...

My question for you all is this;
Is my inability to make things work simply what divides me from the great bands ability in songwriting (which would not surprise me... ) or is it something I've missed out on?

Would greatly appreciate any help...

(Btw, my genre of writing/music is the same as above mentioned, anyone have any tips in this area?)


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Karl-ss
post Nov 26 2010, 07:03 PM
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This might sound a bit mocking.. But from my view the key changes are pretty formulaic, so say you're playing in standard tuning To replicate the most usual key changes of bands such as the ones you mentioned, the usually preferred key changes usually go like E-A-C, I'd suggest messing around with this in guitar pro (assuming you have this amazing software) or just on your guitar.

Of course, I don't know as much about the mainstream scene anymore, but I guessed I could throw my two cents in there.

This post has been edited by Karl-ss: Nov 26 2010, 07:04 PM


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jstcrsn
post Nov 26 2010, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE (Scorpiotic @ Nov 26 2010, 06:53 PM) *
Hey all,

I've been trying to get my head around this for a time now, not able...
So i'm reaching for help to the masses;

I do know many, probably most, songs change key one or four times within itself, but i can't see how to do so without making it sound "sour".

The frustation for me is that there is tonnes of music released where combinations of notes that "should not"sound well together, do so (for instance from the album Nightmare by A7X and Asylum by Disturbed).

Both awesome bands with awesome music, but i can't wrap my head around their writing "techniques" , how they combine notes...
I'm trying to see what scale or pattern or whatever they have used to create their music, but i simply can't, wether it be riffs, lead og solo's...


My question for you all is this;
Is my inability to make things work simply what divides me from the great bands ability in songwriting (which would not surprise me... ) or is it something I've missed out on?

you need to learn more songs with changes until you develope your ear( with understanding)
also- analyze what and how they changed, there is usually a method to the madness




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Ivan Milenkovic
post Nov 27 2010, 06:37 PM
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It's a combination of things. First things first, you have to ask yourself do you really know all the keys and all the chords withing those keys well? There is no point in making songs with key changes, if you are not completely familiar with all the keys involved right?

But, this is just the beginning of the songwriting story. When making a song, first you learn the rules, then you break them. Modern song doesn't have to follow strict tonal changes, like in theory books, or in classical music. You should definitely spend a LOT time making a number of songs. Most of them will, well.. suck. But, it's normal. Some will come out good, and those songs you choose for albums. All the bands you named do the same thing - make lots of songs and choose only the best, so this is why they sound good.

So start your theory work, and start doing lots of songs. In time it will be OK. This would be my advice to you. But if you think there is more to it, let's discuss this topic further, and see what other things we can come up to. I'm sure everybody have good advices, some of which I couldn't think of.


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Scorpiotic
post Nov 27 2010, 10:58 PM
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thanks all wink.gif

Ivan; ye you're right... The comment "first you learn the rules, then you break them" made my day (in some wierd manner) tongue.gif But really, i think that is hitting the nail dead-on-center...

I've started to read up music theory several times, but I never got past "starting"... tongue.gif One thing is its a hell-load of theory, so much to learn, that the thought of beginning is, well, demotivating... Secondly, most I've read I haven't really been able to understand...

So yea, my limitation in theory is probably one of my biggest problems... Anyone have a good idea where/with what to start with? (And maybe some way to keep motivation, besides the fact that I, well, have to) ? tongue.gif


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