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> Why A Guitar Quickly Detunes After Playing, All the possible reasons for the above
Anomaly
post Apr 29 2007, 01:15 AM
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Hi!

My guitar detunes really fast, after playing it for a short period. sad.gif I don't know how old the strings are because it's a new guitar, but I know that other same models stay in tune for a long time.
So, I was wondering it there is any other reason for detuning besides old strings? And I don't think it's because the strings aren't stretched, though I'm not sure how much pressure should I apply when stretching. But I do clean the undersides of the strings after playing, would that be enough to stretch them?
I just don't want to change the strings if I don't have to and if it's not going to make this problem go away (floating bridge). And I do tune up not down.

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beebo
post Apr 29 2007, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (Anomaly @ Apr 28 2007, 04:15 PM) *
Hi!

My guitar detunes really fast, after playing it for a short period. sad.gif I don't know how old the strings are because it's a new guitar, but I know that other same models stay in tune for a long time.
So, I was wondering it there is any other reason for detuning besides old strings? And I don't think it's because the strings aren't stretched, though I'm not sure how much pressure should I apply when stretching. But I do clean the undersides of the strings after playing, would that be enough to stretch them?
I just don't want to change the strings if I don't have to and if it's not going to make this problem go away (floating bridge). And I do tune up not down.

GMC rocks!

Do you have a floating bridge? huh.gif ......if so that's what happened to me. I had a floyd rose and it would NOT stay in tune! dry.gif If not then elaborate plz~ wink.gif
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Anomaly
post Apr 29 2007, 04:34 AM
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QUOTE (beebo @ Apr 29 2007, 03:10 AM) *
Do you have a floating bridge? huh.gif ......if so that's what happened to me. I had a floyd rose and it would NOT stay in tune! dry.gif If not then elaborate plz~ wink.gif


Yes, some floating bridges tend to have this problem, especially if you use the whammy bar.
But my floating bridge doesn't - I made sure, it's a great bridge, and no one owning this guitar has this problems (if you don't count me biggrin.gif ).
I'm pretty sure it's the strings. I'm just going to wait a while and if this doesn't go away, it's not because they're not stretched, and I'll change them.


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mattacuk
post Apr 29 2007, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE (Anomaly @ Apr 29 2007, 04:34 AM) *
Yes, some floating bridges tend to have this problem, especially if you use the whammy bar.
But my floating bridge doesn't - I made sure, it's a great bridge, and no one owning this guitar has this problems (if you don't count me biggrin.gif ).
I'm pretty sure it's the strings. I'm just going to wait a while and if this doesn't go away, it's not because they're not stretched, and I'll change them.



Its threads like this that put me off buying a Guitar with a floating bridge. Im defo going to buy a fixed bridge Guitar again wink.gif

This post has been edited by mattacuk: Apr 29 2007, 10:34 AM


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Robin
post Apr 29 2007, 10:40 AM
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I usually just put the strings on, tune them, and then I just go up and down the strings bending them one by one, and tune them again, bend some more, tune them, then play a bit and tune it as it goes out of tune. And after a while they should be mkay smile.gif

Thats only if I just got new strings, it might be something else that makes your guitar go out of tune, dunno sad.gif

This post has been edited by Robin: Apr 29 2007, 10:42 AM


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Lurgen
post Apr 30 2007, 07:57 AM
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I found that pre-stretching the strings (putting them on, chucking a capo on the first fret, doing some enthusiastic but silent bends in both directions at various points along the fretboard) made a huge difference.

Still, even now I find that my guitar slips a little bit out of tune between practice sessions. Mine doesn't have a fixed bridge (Strat Hwy 1), so it's not really a surprise. The changes seem minor, and are more noticable when we have major weather changes.

So yeah, the things I worked out were:
- old strings = major changes in tuning overnight and crappy sound
- new unstretched strings = moderate changes in tuning overnight and within a practice session
- new stretched strings = only minor changes in tuning overnight
- not-so-new but not-old strings = pretty much perfect smile.gif


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MickeM
post Apr 30 2007, 09:56 AM
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It could be a numerous of things. So you're positive it's not the tremolo so I won't even go into that area. You say it's the string - One reason could be temerature. Say you keep your guitar in a chilly closet or hanging on a wall in the sun where it gets warm. After a while of playing the guitar from the closet will warm up and the strings will stretch, and it will tune down
The warm guitar will drop in temparture, shorten the strings and tune up.

So you pick up the guitar which was tuned alright yesterday and you start suning right away since it's out of tune. Already there your problems start since you're tuning a guitar that would fall into tune after reaching the right temerature.

But still, have a look at the tremolo bridge. Is it in perfect level with the guitar body, aligned trem body vs guitar body OR ther's a notch on each side of the trem that should be aligned.


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Scott Gentzen
post Apr 30 2007, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (Lurgen @ Apr 30 2007, 06:57 AM) *
I found that pre-stretching the strings (putting them on, chucking a capo on the first fret, doing some enthusiastic but silent bends in both directions at various points along the fretboard) made a huge difference.


Why a capo on the first fret? I don't think I've seen anyone do that before.


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sanders4617
post Apr 30 2007, 06:47 PM
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You sure its the strings? I have tried many types of strings and I can put my guitar in the back of my car, drive all day and it will still be in tune. I think its a problem with the guitar. Don't ask me what.. but I just don't think its the strings. Get it seen about by somebody.


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Anomaly
post May 1 2007, 02:59 AM
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Thanks for the replies everyone!!

Lurgen,
I guess that the changes aren't major, and that the sound isn't crappy if I tune, or play only on one string and if you count that I'm just learning and cover your ears. smile.gif And so, it's not the

MickeM,
thanks for the tip, I did go and take a look at the bridge, and you were right, I compared it to some pictures and it's not parallel enough. Previously I meant that the bridge shouldn't be a problem because it's a good bridge and because I thought it was set up properly from the store. I also noticed that the two screws in the back (that I have to set now) that hold that metal plate, that the plate isn't parallel as well, and the action is lower on some strings. I have to tighten those screws so that the plate is parallel, right?
And your other replies on how to set up a floating bridge is really! going to help me tomorrow.. ph34r.gif
It's not the temperature, because I keep the guitar at room temperature, and it keeps detuning even after I have to tune it the second time. And they don't all tune up or down, some tune up and others down. I don't remember if the same strings that tune either way, maybe this has something to do with that plate not being parallel.

Sanders4617,
yes, I'm going to have the whole guitar checked by a guitar master (class smile.gif ), because if this wasn't set up right, then maybe other things aren't also. But I'm going to try and make these adjustments. I feel like I can do it and it's the holidays so no one works now.


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Anomaly
post May 1 2007, 03:11 AM
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And I have some additional questions regarding this topic.

Another thing started to happen and is this because of the bridge too? The strings vibrate strangely. First it was just the low (the one at the top) E string, now it's all of them, it's getting worse. It's kinda a little like a buzzing sound, but it's not that. When I play a note the tuner pointer doesn't stay in the same position (like going to a position and then when the string stops vibrating going down again) but it keeps going right and left - vibrating slowly (like going to a position but then moving a little right and left until the string stops vibrating of course).

And is it normal that sometimes the string tension doesn't change when I turn the machine heads? Should I lubricate the nut or not? It's not really a problem I guess because the tension does change when I keep turning it. But I think this isn't because the strings would slip where the post is? Because they're not set right or something?

I heard of using a capo when stretching strings, but it this necessary, or is it necessary holding both ends of the string (the points before the string goes through the bridge and the locking nut)? Can you damage the bridge or the locking nut if you just stretch them? huh.gif


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Lurgen
post May 2 2007, 05:31 AM
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QUOTE (Scott Gentzen @ May 1 2007, 03:26 AM) *
Why a capo on the first fret? I don't think I've seen anyone do that before.

It's something a friend of mine taught me to do, so you minimise any unnecessary wear and tear on the nut. Spending 10 or 15 minutes aggressively bending all six strings could put a lot of strain on it.


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Anomaly
post May 2 2007, 04:56 PM
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I did it yesterday! happy.gif And everything is a lot better now. It stays in tune a lot more and it's so much easier to push the strings down. smile.gif

Is it more important to set the whole bridge parallel or the plate with the two screws in the back?

I've screwed that metal plate (the two screws) in the back that adjusts the springs so that the plate is parallel inside, like I've read in some instructions. I guess this is to keep both ends of the bridge parallel (for instance so that one side isn't sinked in). But when I did this the whole bridge isn't quite equally parallel to the body (the one that holds the high E string is a little lower - probably not because the strings there are thinner).


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MickeM
post May 2 2007, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (Anomaly @ May 2 2007, 05:56 PM) *
the whole bridge isn't quite equally parallel to the body (the one that holds the high E string is a little lower - probably not because the strings there are thinner).

You also got two Allen screws on top of the bridge that adjust the height


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Anomaly
post May 2 2007, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ May 2 2007, 06:02 PM) *
You also got two Allen screws on top of the bridge that adjust the height


Oh. unsure.gif Are they for the fine adjustment of height? I mean are they to be used after setting up the springs?

I thought that they're for changing intonation and action so I'm still afraid to touch them, but I guess the action changes with the bridge height?


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MickeM
post May 2 2007, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Anomaly @ May 2 2007, 07:00 PM) *
Oh. unsure.gif Are they for the fine adjustment of height? I mean are they to be used after setting up the springs?

I thought that they're for changing intonation and action so I'm still afraid to touch them, but I guess the action changes with the bridge height?


Yes, the action changes when you adjust the Allen screws.

So Allen screws are to adjust the trem up and down. The screws inside the guitar (the bar that holds the springs) adjust the trem tilt angle.

The saddles (if that's what they are called) that each string rests on right in front of where it's attached to the bridge is for intonating. If an open string is at 440 and it's off 440 on fret 12 you'd have to adjust those either backwards or forward. Before doing that you must losen the string quite a bit.
A fender kind is easier to intonate, so is a Gibson kind. A Floyd Rose is also easy but it takes a bit longer since you have to move the saddle by hand. (If you first move it, then tune it again and it's still off you'd have to losen the string again and repeat)


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Anomaly
post May 2 2007, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ May 2 2007, 07:17 PM) *
Yes, the action changes when you adjust the Allen screws.

So Allen screws are to adjust the trem up and down. The screws inside the guitar (the bar that holds the springs) adjust the trem tilt angle.

The saddles (if that's what they are called) that each string rests on right in front of where it's attached to the bridge is for intonating. If an open string is at 440 and it's off 440 on fret 12 you'd have to adjust those either backwards or forward. Before doing that you must losen the string quite a bit.
A fender kind is easier to intonate, so is a Gibson kind. A Floyd Rose is also easy but it takes a bit longer since you have to move the saddle by hand. (If you first move it, then tune it again and it's still off you'd have to losen the string again and repeat)


Yes, those are called saddle lock screws, the ones for intonation. Now I know which screws to turn (the two for action).

So I turned it, and the strings are okay now, but the bridge didn't move - the part of the bridge that's adjusted at the back. Would it be better if I set the springs in the back so the whole bridge (both sides) are parallel or is it better to have that plate parallel at the back?

I think it's better to have the bridge equally adjusted. And that it's normal that the part of the bridge closest to the ground is sinked in more (thinner string counterweights the force in the back) if both springs have the same tension. Am I right?


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MickeM
post May 2 2007, 09:42 PM
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I'm always trying to keep the bar straight and the trem aligned without any end set lower. But never really thought of it the way you describe it.

The idea is to get it to stay in tune and feel comfortable, if it does in that setting you have I guess it's all right.


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Anomaly
post May 2 2007, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ May 2 2007, 10:42 PM) *
I'm always trying to keep the bar straight and the trem aligned without any end set lower. But never really thought of it the way you describe it.

The idea is to get it to stay in tune and feel comfortable, if it does in that setting you have I guess it's all right.



Okay, I'll set it so that the bridge will be completely parallel on both sides (disregarding the plate) and I'll report about changes. But I don't think there will be any because it stays in tune pretty good now and detunes a little probably because of the temperature differences.

Thanks for the help! smile.gif


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Anomaly
post May 23 2007, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (Anomaly @ May 2 2007, 11:31 PM) *
Okay, I'll set it so that the bridge will be completely parallel on both sides (disregarding the plate) and I'll report about changes. But I don't think there will be any because it stays in tune pretty good now and detunes a little probably because of the temperature differences.

Thanks for the help! smile.gif




Okay, so I went and see a guitar tech just in case if something was wrong because of the unparallel plate, but he looked at it and said it was fine. biggrin.gif

Thanks for all of the help again!


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