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Leviathan
post Apr 29 2007, 10:07 PM
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i feel so bad because i don't get the metronome and how you can tell the tempo... i need help cause i'm losing motivation
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Asphyxia Feeling
post Apr 29 2007, 10:37 PM
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i don't understand what you mean?

you can't stay in beat with the metronome? or you don't have one?


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Leviathan
post Apr 29 2007, 11:03 PM
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QUOTE (Asphyxia Feeling @ Apr 29 2007, 05:37 PM) *
i don't understand what you mean?

you can't stay in beat with the metronome? or you don't have one?

I can stay with simple beats like the a minor scale it's just the songs... i mean i can play it by mimicking the way that kris is playing it but i just don't know how to fit it in a normal metronome beat without playing along to kris...
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Asphyxia Feeling
post Apr 29 2007, 11:14 PM
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ah!

i just got an amp with a built in metronome, my first metronome i've ever used. i'm having the same kind of trouble, actually. it's hard to stay in beat. have you watch the "metronome how to" video in the beginner section? it's pretty helpful.

i've been trying to count along to what i'm playing. it seems to help. for example, in a 4/4 time, go "1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4" outloud, one number to each beat. or, if your going in 8th notes (i might be wrong about this being 8th notes, i'm very new to OFFICALLY playing in time) you'd go "1 and 2 and 3 and 4" with a "1 and" for each beat.

haha, maybe someone more experienced can reply with something better.


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Leviathan
post Apr 29 2007, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE (Asphyxia Feeling @ Apr 29 2007, 06:14 PM) *
ah!

i just got an amp with a built in metronome, my first metronome i've ever used. i'm having the same kind of trouble, actually. it's hard to stay in beat. have you watch the "metronome how to" video in the beginner section? it's pretty helpful.

i've been trying to count along to what i'm playing. it seems to help. for example, in a 4/4 time, go "1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4" outloud, one number to each beat. or, if your going in 8th notes (i might be wrong about this being 8th notes, i'm very new to OFFICALLY playing in time) you'd go "1 and 2 and 3 and 4" with a "1 and" for each beat.

haha, maybe someone more experienced can reply with something better.

Yeah i've watched the video... over and over again.... I can stay in rythm with a 1... 12... 123 (This is hard) ... 1234 (easy as cake)... 123456 ( it's moderate ).. i can do that with the scales but i don't know how there implemented in to songs it's just wierd...
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 30 2007, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Leviathan @ Apr 29 2007, 06:03 PM) *
I can stay with simple beats like the a minor scale it's just the songs... i mean i can play it by mimicking the way that kris is playing it but i just don't know how to fit it in a normal metronome beat without playing along to kris...


Hi Leviathan - in order to play along with a metronome to song, you need to get an understanding of the timing of the individual notes and runs and how they relate to the main beat. In exercises like scales this is usually simple because all the notes will be the same length. The same is usually true for speedpicking and sweep exercises. It can be a rude awekening when you start playing a song for the first time and realize how much the timing changes from phrase to phrase. This is an important part of playing though so it is worth persevering. Here are a few tips and suggestions:

1. Don't expect all the notes to be the same length - you'll go crazy trying to fit them to a regular beat.
2. Start with simple and slow songs first - they are easier to figure out
3. COunt along withg the song - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 and try and understand the beat. Do this a few times
4. Listen to what the melody is doing. Is it playing 2 notes to each of your counts? 4 notes? 1 note? Get it into your head phrase by phrase
5. Now, use your metronome, and the metronome is doing the 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 for you. Play the individual phrases you are working on exactly the same speed relative to the metronome beats as the song was. If you can't do it fast, slow down until you can, then slowly increase the speed.
6. Tabs on their own don;t have any timing information and you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out. Some tabe come with music notation as well - it is well worth spending some time to understand the basics of this and you will then find it much easier to figure out the timing of the licks in the tab.
7. If you want to get a better understanding of how timing works in music you could check out my Time 101 theory lesson, it may help.

8. ABOVE ALL - DON'T GET DISCOURAGED! This is a temporary blip, and if you keep working at it a light will come on and you will feel great. If you need any help breaking down the timing of a particular riff or exercise you are working on, let is know and we'll do our best to help smile.gif

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Apr 30 2007, 12:03 AM


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Leviathan
post Apr 30 2007, 12:21 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 29 2007, 07:01 PM) *
Hi Leviathan - in order to play along with a metronome to song, you need to get an understanding of the timing of the individual notes and runs and how they relate to the main beat. In exercises like scales this is usually simple because all the notes will be the same length. The same is usually true for speedpicking and sweep exercises. It can be a rude awekening when you start playing a song for the first time and realize how much the timing changes from phrase to phrase. This is an important part of playing though so it is worth persevering. Here are a few tips and suggestions:

1. Don't expect all the notes to be the same length - you'll go crazy trying to fit them to a regular beat.
2. Start with simple and slow songs first - they are easier to figure out
3. COunt along withg the song - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 and try and understand the beat. Do this a few times
4. Listen to what the melody is doing. Is it playing 2 notes to each of your counts? 4 notes? 1 note? Get it into your head phrase by phrase
5. Now, use your metronome, and the metronome is doing the 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 for you. Play the individual phrases you are working on exactly the same speed relative to the metronome beats as the song was. If you can't do it fast, slow down until you can, then slowly increase the speed.
6. Tabs on their own don;t have any timing information and you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out. Some tabe come with music notation as well - it is well worth spending some time to understand the basics of this and you will then find it much easier to figure out the timing of the licks in the tab.
7. If you want to get a better understanding of how timing works in music you could check out my Time 101 theory lesson, it may help.

8. ABOVE ALL - DON'T GET DISCOURAGED! This is a temporary blip, and if you keep working at it a light will come on and you will feel great. If you need any help breaking down the timing of a particular riff or exercise you are working on, let is know and we'll do our best to help smile.gif



WHEn i'm listening to a song how do i know where the beat starts.. this is how i count boom boom 234 boom 234..... i always listen to the snare and go from there i'm so confused.. i'll get it... and thanks for the help i'll get it in about a month........ i can play fast stuff but just not in tempo...
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 30 2007, 12:31 AM
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QUOTE (Leviathan @ Apr 29 2007, 07:21 PM) *
WHEn i'm listening to a song how do i know where the beat starts.. this is how i count boom boom 234 boom 234..... i always listen to the snare and go from there i'm so confused.. i'll get it... and thanks for the help i'll get it in about a month........ i can play fast stuff but just not in tempo...


Its not easy - you get a feel for it after a while (which doesn't help I know ...)

Usin the snare as a guide is good - you need to be aware though that snares ususally hit every other beat. Most often the snare will be on beats 2 and 4. I presume the boom is the kick drum - that most often comes in on beats 1 and 3, but there are no firm rules, and the bass drum often does a lot of funky double hitting to move the song along. Another clue is chord chages. They are often (but not always) on the first beat of a bar. After a while these bits of knowledge add up and you can figure out where the beat starts.


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Leviathan
post Apr 30 2007, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 29 2007, 07:31 PM) *
Its not easy - you get a feel for it after a while (which doesn't help I know ...)

Usin the snare as a guide is good - you need to be aware though that snares ususally hit every other beat. Most often the snare will be on beats 2 and 4. I presume the boom is the kick drum - that most often comes in on beats 1 and 3, but there are no firm rules, and the bass drum often does a lot of funky double hitting to move the song along. Another clue is chord chages. They are often (but not always) on the first beat of a bar. After a while these bits of knowledge add up and you can figure out where the beat starts.

ALright i'll keep practicing... and btw the boom is the metronome beat... some times when i'm playing along with the metronome it seems the beat goes slower than what i'm playin while i'm playing..
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Leviathan
post Apr 30 2007, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 29 2007, 07:01 PM) *
5. Now, use your metronome, and the metronome is doing the 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 for you. Play the individual phrases you are working on exactly the same speed relative to the metronome beats as the song was. If you can't do it fast, slow down until you can, then slowly increase the speed.

Do you mean that for the counting 1 2 3 4 is a beat on the metronome or is it beat 2 3 4 beat 2 3 4?
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 30 2007, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Leviathan @ Apr 30 2007, 09:19 AM) *
Do you mean that for the counting 1 2 3 4 is a beat on the metronome or is it beat 2 3 4 beat 2 3 4?


Actually, that is a verty astute question and forms the heart of the dilema smile.gif

When counting for a song, the "1 2 3 4" is usually quarter notes. In most songs there are four of these to a bar or measure. The interesting stuff happens in between.

If you are playing 16th notes, you will be playing "beat 2 3 4", if you are playing 8ths you will be playing "beat 2". If you are playing quarters you will be playing "beat". If you are playing 16th triplets you will be playing "beat 2 3 4 5 6" and for regular triplets it would be "beat 2 3".

So, the key to this is to make sure you set your metronome speed to play quarters, and the rest should be easy.


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Leviathan
post Apr 30 2007, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Apr 30 2007, 09:47 AM) *
Actually, that is a verty astute question and forms the heart of the dilema smile.gif

When counting for a song, the "1 2 3 4" is usually quarter notes. In most songs there are four of these to a bar or measure. The interesting stuff happens in between.

If you are playing 16th notes, you will be playing "beat 2 3 4", if you are playing 8ths you will be playing "beat 2". If you are playing quarters you will be playing "beat". If you are playing 16th triplets you will be playing "beat 2 3 4 5 6" and for regular triplets it would be "beat 2 3".

So, the key to this is to make sure you set your metronome speed to play quarters, and the rest should be easy.

Okay i'm starting to understand it clearly now.. but why change the speed of the metronome.... it increases the speed of quarter notes etc... but why... and how do you determine the BPM of a song, and catch the triplets quarters etc.. in a regular song....
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Andrew Cockburn
post Apr 30 2007, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Leviathan @ Apr 30 2007, 10:52 AM) *
Okay i'm starting to understand it clearly now.. but why change the speed of the metronome.... it increases the speed of quarter notes etc... but why... and how do you determine the BPM of a song, and catch the triplets quarters etc.. in a regular song....


It seems like you are pulling all the elements together and asking the right questions! So, one at a time:

>why change the speed of the metronome.... it increases the speed of quarter notes etc... but why

Simply because each song is played at a different speed, and for each song, you want the metronome to nail the quarter notes. Compare Freebird to Blitzkrieg - you certainly couldn't use the same metronome setting to both ... Freebird is around 120 bpm, Blitzkrieg is something like 250 bpm, so you would need to set your metronome to the appropriate BPM for each song

>how do you determine the BPM of a song, and catch the triplets quarters etc.. in a regular song....

Thats a little harder - you need to figure out the basic beat and experience helps a lot here. To practice, this you can listen to some songs you know the temp of and practice picking out the quarter beats (the easy ones you can count 1 2 3 4) to. There are a couple of things to be wary of:

First, you might get it wrong and half or double the speed - that isn't disastrous and shouldn't affect your practicing too much. If you are playing a tab and have the timing you will very quickly spot this as everything will seem to slow or too fast.

Second, some songs don't have 4 beats to the bar and some songs don't use quarter notes as a basis. To understand this you really need to look into the theory, and this is described in my Time 101 series about time signatures. If you don't understand what I am saying in this part, I suggest you read that then let me know if you have any questions!

This is an important area to understand so keep plugging away, you are asking all the right questions!

This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Apr 30 2007, 04:21 PM


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Bitey
post Apr 30 2007, 05:44 PM
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If it helps I usually use the drummer to count how fast they are doing 1 2 3 4. Then I try to compare it to a metronome speed and I can get pretty close. Or I just listen to the song and play it off of that.
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Lurgen
post May 2 2007, 05:28 AM
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Up until quite recently, I was freaking out about the whole metronome thing. I can memorise (or play as I read) most of the basic tablature that I find on this site (and others) but mapping the tab back to a backing track has proven almost impossible. The pre-recorded examples are usually quite fast, 120bpm in a lot of cases, meaning that for me it has been challenging to work out the timings.

I started out by annotating the tabs with markers, and that helped some. Unfortunately, there are plenty of spots where things move too fast for me to figure it out.

On the slower examples, I first played the tab, letting my hands work out the sequences. Then played along with the sample track, matching my timing to the recording. Once I had that under control, I'd play against just the backing track. That's the sequence of events. If step 2 fails because the recording was too fast though, I just ran out of steam eventually.

A friend of mine made a suggestion, which I followed up - a piece of software that can slow a sound file (or CD) down to an arbitrary speed without changing the pitch of the notes, or the timings (other than tempo). The Amazing Slow Downer (lame name, but great software) does this for me. So I can now play against the pre-recorded demo at 60% speed, figure out the timings while still being able to hear every actual note, then crank up the speed to 100% gradually as I learn it. Then I switch to just a metronome, and finally over to the backing track.

Better still, I've been using this to figure out how to play parts of songs that have previously frustrated me. Those downloaded pieces of tablature that have mistakes in them became a lot easier to fix once I could slow the original song down enough to hear the individual notes.

Now for the bad news - it's not cheap, $40 USD. I bought a copy, because I'm quite happy to pay to learn but many of us wouldn't want to spend that sort of money on a simple piece of software.

Anyhow, hopefully this info helps somebody...

All this said, I'm a nub. 4 months of playing, no formal training. So many grains of salt should be taken along with my posts wink.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post May 2 2007, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (Lurgen @ May 2 2007, 12:28 AM) *
All this said, I'm a nub. 4 months of playing, no formal training. So many grains of salt should be taken along with my posts wink.gif


Great post, good advice smile.gif Its sometimes hard with TAB as it doesn't contain timing info - you described a good way of getting it down, plus all of the studying you do helps you get into the song as well.

The amazing slow downer is a great piece of software - I use it to slow down the lesson backing tracks when even the slow ones are too fast for me smile.gif


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fkalich
post May 2 2007, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (Lurgen @ May 1 2007, 11:28 PM) *
Now for the bad news - it's not cheap, $40 USD. I bought a copy, because I'm quite happy to pay to learn but many of us wouldn't want to spend that sort of money on a simple piece of software.

along with my posts wink.gif


It will play the first two songs of a CD in total, at least my version will. Maybe I am being cheap not sending them money, but I am being legal. Or you can just append a song on itself 4 times with another free tool, and then play it from your disk in total. Ok, being cheap, but not stealing, just going with the restrictions. I consider using software illegally as no different than breaking into somebody's garage and stealing things, same thing. And everybody pays for that, losses to theft are just passed on to the paying consumers as part of the retail price.

The slowdowner is nice. I don't believe much in timings in modern (guitar) music, more than just sometimes exact, sometimes just a general idea. People tab it out, and give length values, but they are often not really quite right. Who knows what the timings are sometimes, they are not simple enough to always notate.

Take Clapton's Crossroads. That is the first song I learned when I picked up guitar again last winter. He has some timings that, who knows what they are exactly. Expecially in the second solo. I just used slowdowner to help get the feel. But you will never get that feel from sheet music on a song like that, you have to learn that by ear. The notations can help some, but you can't take them as gospel all the time.

I have heard that the music of classical composers such as Beethoven and Mozart sounded different in their day, than they do now. Over the past 2 centuries the real feel as intended by the composers was lost, the sheet music just does not capture what the composer originally created. Sure they wrote it out, but they were there to say "no no no no, not like that!". They died, and gradually that was lost, and it is not the same. So I have heard.

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Andrew Cockburn
post May 2 2007, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ May 2 2007, 09:42 AM) *
The slowdowner is nice. I don't believe much in timings in modern (guitar) music, more than just sometimes exact, sometimes just a general idea. People tab it out, and give length values, but they are often not really quite right. Who knows what the timings are sometimes, they are not simple enough to always notate.


I mostly agree; timings are useful for you to get the song into your head - is that run in 16ths, 16th triplets? Dang, he's playing so fast I can't figure it out. But as you say, you are trying to lock down seomthing that should be fluid, and expression is an important part of the music.

For the first reason I like to see timing in music notation supporting tabs but I don't expect it to be exact, and in any case when I can play the notes, I will interpret it MY way smile.gif


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