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> Quote By Igor Stravinsky, What are your thoughts?
Daniel Realpe
post May 12 2011, 06:55 PM
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"A good composer does not imitate, he steals"
Igor Stravinsky

What does this sound like to you? how do you interpret it?

and here's a clip of music by him:Undeniably a great composer.



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bobdavis62
post May 12 2011, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ May 12 2011, 05:55 PM) *
"A good composer does not imitate, he steals"
Igor Stravinsky

What does this sound like to you? how do you interpret it?

and here's a clip of music by him:Undeniably a great composer.


Maybe what Stravinsky meant was that when you "imitate" someone you are just "borrowing" their ideas. They still retain "ownership". But when you "steal" from someone you make their ideas "yours". They lose ownership of those "ideas", and, therefore, they won't get credit for them -- you will!


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Ben Higgins
post May 12 2011, 08:31 PM
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Yes, just like Bob says.... don't just sound a bit like someone.. take what they did and make it your own. Don't settle for sounding like an imitation of somebody, take their idea and use it to take your own composing to new heights ! smile.gif


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Daniel Realpe
post May 13 2011, 02:02 AM
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I think it refers to using techniques properly. If you are going to use a compositional tool used by Bach for instance, you have to do it right, following the same rules he made.

Or say, if you are going to rip off Paul Gilbert, do it properly, and then what will happen is what Ben says, it will go to new heights,



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Todd Simpson
post May 13 2011, 03:38 AM
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I think all these interpretations are valid. It's a great quote and at least part of it is to remind us that using what we like, what impresses us, speaks to us, need not be something we are ashamed of. "You stole that!" can be thrown around with malice as to say a player lacks creativity. But it's by "stealing", making something your own, that you grow as an artist/player.

Also, if you notice someone using a technique that you as a player feel some degree of ownership of, no matter how small it is, be proud. After all "Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery"

Todd


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quadrium
post May 13 2011, 04:19 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ May 12 2011, 07:31 PM) *
Yes, just like Bob says.... don't just sound a bit like someone.. take what they did and make it your own. Don't settle for sounding like an imitation of somebody, take their idea and use it to take your own composing to new heights ! smile.gif


Agreed! For example i've used almost every riff in your The Devil Is In The Diad lesson and wrote a whole different metal tune biggrin.gif


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Ben Higgins
post May 13 2011, 07:43 AM
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QUOTE (quadrium @ May 13 2011, 04:19 AM) *
Agreed! For example i've used almost every riff in your The Devil Is In The Diad lesson and wrote a whole different metal tune biggrin.gif


Haha, excellent !! Then the lesson has done its job ! biggrin.gif


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Fran
post May 13 2011, 12:02 PM
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I guess every composer "steals" some ideas from others, whether consciously or not. I guess that's what we call "influences", the music we listen to and love obviously inspires us when creating our own.

Maybe the verb "steal" sounds too strong though smile.gif I prefer "influence" or "inspire"

This post has been edited by Fran: May 13 2011, 12:02 PM


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Daniel Realpe
post May 13 2011, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (Fran @ May 13 2011, 12:02 PM) *
I guess every composer "steals" some ideas from others, whether consciously or not. I guess that's what we call "influences", the music we listen to and love obviously inspires us when creating our own.

Maybe the verb "steal" sounds too strong though smile.gif I prefer "influence" or "inspire"

I think Igor emphasises in the difference between imitating and stealing for a reason. I think it's because stealing means you are using whatever inspired you the "right way" so to speak. Where as imitating just sounds like that, an imitation.


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Sollesnes
post May 13 2011, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (Daniel Realpe @ May 13 2011, 02:47 PM) *
I think Igor emphasises in the difference between imitating and stealing for a reason. I think it's because stealing means you are using whatever inspired you the "right way" so to speak. Where as imitating just sounds like that, an imitation.


Yep smile.gif When you steal you can take what you like and use it your own way. If you imitate you will always try to use it the same way as whoever inspires you.
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Frederik
post May 13 2011, 06:05 PM
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To me there is no such thing as stealing in music, or any other artform.
To me the reason to perform an art is not to own a given piece/phrase but to share it, and to make yourself understood
Its parallel to language. you are not a thief for using the same phrases as your friends. It's actually the most normal and human thing to do.

Now the challenge lies in playing what you feel. To use the phrases that are congruent with you at the given moment in time. In other words being true to yourself.

To me its easy to sense if a person is true to himself or if he is pretending. Same goes for music
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Daniel Realpe
post May 13 2011, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE (Frederik @ May 13 2011, 06:05 PM) *
To me there is no such thing as stealing in music, or any other artform.
To me the reason to perform an art is not to own a given piece/phrase but to share it, and to make yourself understood
Its parallel to language. you are not a thief for using the same phrases as your friends. It's actually the most normal and human thing to do.

Now the challenge lies in playing what you feel. To use the phrases that are congruent with you at the given moment in time. In other words being true to yourself.

To me its easy to sense if a person is true to himself or if he is pretending. Same goes for music

very good point...I was just checking out some new law they are trying to pass in Colombia to prevent pirating of content through internet banning,


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Frederik
post May 13 2011, 09:55 PM
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I'm pro-pirat, which might offend some of you guys who used a lot of money producing a record.
But in my opinion art is all about sharing and expression.
So if you have the urge to express something; Do it! don't expect anything in return
If you are doing it for the money, your intentions are not right (With bling-bling-rappers being the exception)

Money for nothing and the chicks for free wink.gif

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Bogdan Radovic
post May 13 2011, 09:57 PM
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I heard so many times the phrase - steal, but don't get caught. "Stealing" refers to using the proven techniques/approaches in music composing. For example, over the years, successful song forms emerged and we can find some overall guidelines/recipes in all the hit songs. I'm not saying that we shouldn't build "triangle" shaped houses but it always good to learn from the best. That is regarding songwriting, but it applies to other areas. Regarding guitar playing, everyone tries to learn as many new licks as possible and then re-uses in their own playing. Reusing licks is not stealing. Everyone is inspired by others (and those famous guitarists too and they also reused some licks they heard before). They way you combine everything you learn/hear will actually produce your own style/sound and you will be original.



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Ivan Milenkovic
post May 13 2011, 11:18 PM
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It means that a good composer is not just trying to mimic others work, but using the parts he likes, when he likes it.

Check out this video of his, specially the part where he talks with the tone technician (although all other comments are interesting too)



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Daniel Realpe
post May 14 2011, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE (Frederik @ May 13 2011, 09:55 PM) *
I'm pro-pirat, which might offend some of you guys who used a lot of money producing a record.
But in my opinion art is all about sharing and expression.
So if you have the urge to express something; Do it! don't expect anything in return
If you are doing it for the money, your intentions are not right (With bling-bling-rappers being the exception)

Money for nothing and the chicks for free wink.gif

-Frederik

yeah, I agree. But then food should be the same, also clothing and housing, why only art?



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Ben Higgins
post May 14 2011, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE (Frederik @ May 13 2011, 09:55 PM) *
If you are doing it for the money, your intentions are not right (With bling-bling-rappers being the exception)


I don't quite understand.. surely bling bling rappers are a good example of people doing it for the money and status ? Their intentions are definitely about what they can get out of it, rather than the truth of their art. I might have misunderstood your sentence though smile.gif


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Daniel Realpe
post Jul 18 2011, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ May 13 2011, 11:18 PM) *
It means that a good composer is not just trying to mimic others work, but using the parts he likes, when he likes it.

Check out this video of his, specially the part where he talks with the tone technician (although all other comments are interesting too)


wow, it's unbelievable the calm and sharpness of his comments. I can tell he's got a very clear vision of what he wants in his music. And it's not arrogance


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jul 18 2011, 06:10 PM
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if all of the GMC members would learn the same song, I can honestly say that it's going to sound different from one guy to another, because we are all different smile.gif

I think that Mr. Stravinsky was really talking about personal interpretation of a specific thing, be it musical or visual arts related, for instance. Draw a balloon and then without saying what it is, ask the person near you to draw what he sees on the same piece of paper. Continue with 10 people and in the end you'll have a piece of paper full of balloons which will all look different smile.gif

I think you got it right guys biggrin.gif all the comments share truth wink.gif


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