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xxxridzr
post May 15 2011, 10:11 PM
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I try to incorporate many techniques as possible into my improvisation. However, i feel it not enough to get a rockin solo. WOndering if i can get help on the Modes and how to plug them into a solo please.
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Frederik
post May 15 2011, 10:29 PM
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I had that idea too once. Now its all about me having patience to find the right lines. if i cant, i try to sing them

This post has been edited by Frederik: May 15 2011, 10:30 PM
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Bogdan Radovic
post May 15 2011, 11:02 PM
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Hi Ridzr,

Great to have you here in the forum! smile.gif))

Really good question! If you want to shred you definitely want to play "over the top". That is how I understand term shredding anyway.
But yes - there is so much more to it then just a technique. What I think will help you the most will be to step back and go to basics.
Try to practice playing slow/easy melodic solos. When trying to sound melodic best approach is to use chord tones (especially on beats when chord changes occur) - that is why you practice your arpeggios (broken up chords). As Frederik mentioned - approach of singing melodies and then transcribing them on guitar is one of the best approaches to more melodic soloing.
Practice your basic scales and improvisation over basic chords (major scale, melodic minor scale, pentatonic scales).
Modal soloing will not essentially give you what you're looking for as it is often used when you want to sound more exotic and specific.

Rocking solo will feature a strong main melody (theme) + great technique. Also, sometimes it's necessary to simplify things in order to sound more confident and true. I think Satriani once said : "You don't want your songs to sound like the exercises you've been doing!".

Here you can find some GMC lessons covering modal soloing : https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/search/mo...esson=8;forum=1

Check them out and learn the ones you find cool sounding!

Also, if you want to get back to basics try soloing over for example : Dm7 - G7 - Cmaj7 progression using only the C major scale and it's modes. Try to come up with something very melodic.

Hope this helps! smile.gif


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dark dude
post May 16 2011, 12:26 AM
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I agree with Bogdan, simply using modes probably won't get your intended effect. However, onto including some modes in your compositions..

You're writing rock music, so I assume the minor pentatonic is being used a lot? You can use any of the 3 minor-like modes: Dorian, Aeolian (aka natural minor scale) or Phrygian (the 2nd, 6th and 4rd modes, respectively). You'll obtain a different sound, but the chord progression will change too.

I'd skip adding modes and focus on what your favourite rock bands use in solos, i.e. what techniques and licks really catch my attention. That'll be a more fruitful area smile.gif Analyse why your favourite bands sound good, then reproduce that with your own spin on it!


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casinostrat
post May 16 2011, 03:28 AM
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dark dude and bogdan are right. Find a song that you really like, and start to look at the song carefully and learn to play the solo the way the group play it. Once you do that, then start looking for places you can add your own personal licks and flavor to the song and solo. For example when I went through Ivan's lesson to learn "still got the blues" by Gary Moore I started by learning it exactly as possible to the way Ivan presented it. This familarized me with the song, but over time and playing I started to kind of mold the solo to better fit my playing style and now my version of the solo is quite different from the orginal, even though they still sound similar. After you have done this for a while you begin to learn when you should stick to pentatonics, how and when to use modes, etc.


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SirJamsalot
post May 16 2011, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE (xxxridzr @ May 15 2011, 02:11 PM) *
I try to incorporate many techniques as possible into my improvisation. However, i feel it not enough to get a rockin solo. WOndering if i can get help on the Modes and how to plug them into a solo please.
Thanks Ridzr. smile.gif
First time here on forum smile.gif


Improvising shred, blues, jazz, anything... requires more than knowing patterns. Knowing and being able to physically do them is one thing, but improvising doesn't come from theory - what I mean is that theory and knowing modes may help you recognize where you are on the fretboard, but when all is said and done, improvisation is your attempt at applying what what is in your mind to the fretboard.

I've written a short article here explaining what I mean
http://www.ckdesigns.com/blog/2011/04/15/l...nd-over-matter/

When all is said and done, what really matters in improvisation is being able to articulate with your hands, what you hear in your mind when you hear a chord progression. The first steps in learning to do this is knowing what your scales sound like without a guitar in your hand, and being able to sing in your mind or verbally what sounds good to you. Then practice expressing that with your hands on the fretboard.

Being able to physically express fast/complex runs that you imagine/feel need to be at any given point in a musical progression is where learning to play fast comes into play - and that is hours of practice, of course - you just can't get away from the physical training aspect of it. However, if improvisation is your end-goal, then you have to practice improvisation, and that means you need to practice to backing tracks and musical chord progressions. Without musical context to practice to, you won't be able to predict where a progression is going, and therefore you won't be able to adjust to the dynamic nature of improvisation.

There is a recent thread here on backing tracks - I don't have a URL to it handy but it's within the last week. See if there is any movement on that thread so you can pick up some backing tracks to practice to.

Also consider creating your own.
http://www.ckdesigns.com/blog/2011/04/19/t...-misconception/

Forgive the shameless plugs - I just feel strongly about these topics and decided that it's easer to paste a link to already created articles than re-write the topic in every post I want to reply to.

Best to you.





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Ben Higgins
post May 16 2011, 04:28 PM
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Very wise advice from SirJamsalot, and also from the other guys.. I agree smile.gif We all use different terminology but it all comes down to one thing, what we're all looking for: Finding our voice !

Another thing I'd add on the subject of incorporating different techniques into a solo is this: A martial artist may train to learn hundreds of combinations of moves but in a real encounter will have to rely on only a few. It's the same in music.. don't think that you have to get out your entire trickbag and show your wares to everybody everytime.. use what you need and no more. It then leaves room for you to add more when it needs it.. and it will have more effect because you haven't already blown your entire arsenal of licks already smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: May 16 2011, 04:28 PM


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Bogdan Radovic
post May 17 2011, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ May 16 2011, 05:28 PM) *
A martial artist may train to learn hundreds of combinations of moves but in a real encounter will have to rely on only a few.


Hehe I wonder where this parallel came from? biggrin.gif

hint :



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Todd Simpson
post May 17 2011, 12:55 AM
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So much killer advice (Big Props to SirJamsalot) that it's hard to add much. But that said, try to hear a solo in your head before you try to play it. When listening to a track, let your imagination put whatever solo you can dream up on it, before you pick up your guitar. Once you have a rough idea, then try to see if you can play what you heard in your head. That way you are starting from a creative space free of physical limitation and you can then see how much of it you can actually play and push yourself to play things you didn't think you could pull off.

Being able to create solos in your head takes practice. Just like playing with a track does. But if you understand musically, melodically, what you want to do before you get your fingers involved, it can expand what you end up playing.

Hope this helps smile.gif

Todd
QUOTE (xxxridzr @ May 15 2011, 04:11 PM) *
I try to incorporate many techniques as possible into my improvisation. However, i feel it not enough to get a rockin solo. WOndering if i can get help on the Modes and how to plug them into a solo please.
Thanks Ridzr. smile.gif
First time here on forum smile.gif



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Ivan Milenkovic
post May 17 2011, 02:07 PM
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If you are interested in using modes within your solos, than you can start by learning all there is to know about them. Start from 7 modes of the major scale, and go through all of them slowly. See what are differences between them, and get to know how they sound.

After that, you should spend some time learning the chords that each mode builts. In C major key there are 7 notes, which means 7 modes, which means 7 chords. If you encounter a chord progression in a song, see what chords correlate to what modes. Then you play them as practice on top of those chords. After a while, when you can play those modes over chords in the middle of the night, then you can use them effectively in a solo.


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xxxridzr
post May 22 2011, 07:03 PM
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Thank for all the help, Gmc-er!
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SirJamsalot
post Sep 1 2011, 11:30 PM
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I've done a little back-reading to see if I've changed my thoughts on what I've written in the past, or to add addendums to further clarify what I was getting at. In my reply to this post, I think I may have inferred that theory is not important - I'd like to correct myself if that's what you got out of my post.

Theory is an essential discovery tool. I wouldn't place so much of an emphasis on it as a creative tool for building, but more of a reflective tool - understanding what has already been created. The more theory you learn, the more new sounds you are exposed to. The more sounds you are exposed to, the more ideas you'll have at your disposal when dreaming up a solo for any chord progression.

So the ability to pull a solo from what sounds good to your mind's ear, is influenced by what you have been exposed to - and what better way to expose yourself to new and creative sounds than studying theory! So open up those song books and take a peek inside - then stick them in your head so you're thinking like Mozart next time you dream up that improvisation!



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Satchstet
post Sep 2 2011, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Sep 1 2011, 10:30 PM) *
I've done a little back-reading to see if I've changed my thoughts on what I've written in the past, or to add addendums to further clarify what I was getting at. In my reply to this post, I think I may have inferred that theory is not important - I'd like to correct myself if that's what you got out of my post.

Theory is an essential discovery tool. I wouldn't place so much of an emphasis on it as a creative tool for building, but more of a reflective tool - understanding what has already been created. The more theory you learn, the more new sounds you are exposed to. The more sounds you are exposed to, the more ideas you'll have at your disposal when dreaming up a solo for any chord progression.

So the ability to pull a solo from what sounds good to your mind's ear, is influenced by what you have been exposed to - and what better way to expose yourself to new and creative sounds than studying theory! So open up those song books and take a peek inside - then stick them in your head so you're thinking like Mozart next time you dream up that improvisation!

I liked your article on the Metronome Sirjamsalot. I think knowing theory and shapes and patterns are essential to not only improvising but to composing as well. If all you know is the minor pentatonic scale then your solos are going to sound boring. If you know the minor pentatonic scale as well as some arpeggio shapes and the diatonic scale then your solos will sound more diverse I think. So......I think knowing theory is essential. I do agree that the metronome will only teach you how to play excercises......I have experienced the exact same thing that you experiences with your year long metronome experience and then putting on a backing track. However.....when I sat down and actually tried to compose instead of just improvise I think I came up with some pretty decent ideas as a result of knowing my scales and arpeggios and the metronome work came in handy for writing some shreddy runs......so it wasn't a total waste. I will say that I could sit for hours and compose to a backing track whereas I have a tough time doing more than an hour of metronome work.

Nice article Sirjamsalot......very insightful......\m/\m/
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