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> New Metal Song Finished, Determination
Todd Simpson
post Jun 27 2011, 02:10 AM
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Glad you like it wink.gif It's a very spiff plugin (that's also very easy to go overboard with so be careful) called IZOTOPE OZONE. There are TONS of similar plugins that do very similar things. Everyone has their own preferences of course. But give OZONE a shot to see what you think. You can apply it to a mix after your done in a very easy way.

1.)Start a new reaper project (you don't have to, but it helps keep things separate) and import your AIF or WAV or mp3 or whatever you exported when you mixed. (Avoid MP3 at this point if possible, but if it's not possible, meh.)

2.)Apply Ozone and experiment with the existing preset then start tweaking the controls once you find a starting point that you like. You can save your own versions of presets for later which is handy smile.gif

3.)Export your new "Tweaked" mix. (MP3 is fine at this point for web distribution)

You can apply it to individual tracks of course, or apply it to the "Two Bus" inside your mix instead of doing a "Mastering" pass. But the latency can increase doing it this way, especially in REAPER which is why I suggested the method I did smile.gif

Here is a link to download the Demo, Mac an PC.

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/download.asp

Todd


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thefireball
post Jun 29 2011, 09:20 PM
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I updated the song again! biggrin.gif I redid the solo and remastered it.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 30 2011, 10:08 AM
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Yes you do have to be very careful with Ozone as it can get nasty if you push it. Be aware that the presets in Ozone are quite extreme and flip very quickly in to distortion and artefacts. TBH the settings for the presets are too extreme and just don't work for the vast majority of audio. Use them as a starting point by all means but listen very carefully and be prepared to make quite major changes to those settings.

Also be aware that any processing that you do here - particularly on the 2 bus will be extremely difficult to alter or correct at a later stage. Put another way if you intend to do any more production on the track and/or master it later then you generally should not add processing on the 2 us. If you're mixing then mix and work at getting the mix as good as you can BEFORE you make any attempt to master smile.gif .


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thefireball
post Jun 30 2011, 08:58 PM
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I can't think how much more it could be improved. Kinda want to go to a new song now. biggrin.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 1 2011, 02:51 AM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Jun 30 2011, 02:58 PM) *
I can't think how much more it could be improved. Kinda want to go to a new song now. biggrin.gif


I can hear the ozone on the drums making them sparkle a bit which is nice wink.gif You've really made good progress on your recording and your playing so well done! As the guys are saying do be careful not to overdo it with ozone but used sparingly and with some custom tweaking of the presets, it's extremely, amazingly, handy.

TODD TIP 1: The boominess that Ivan is talking about shows up once I turn on my subwoofer. With my mixing speakers only, it's fine. But when I hit the sub to see what's happening in the low bass area it gets boomy. What size speakers are you mixing on? If you mix with a speaker system that doesn't have good bass response, your mixes will sound boomy. Conversely, if you mix on a system with bad treble response your mixes will have to much tweet/hiss/scratch/treble.

A couple of ways around this. Try to check your mixes on other speaker systems, even home theatre systems, systems with subwoofers, car stereos, etc


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VilleFIN
post Jul 1 2011, 07:12 AM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Jun 30 2011, 10:58 PM) *
I can't think how much more it could be improved. Kinda want to go to a new song now. biggrin.gif

Yep improving/re-mixing/re-mastering/etc. your songs is a endless job. There's always something to tweak.

But you you have to move on !! wink.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jul 1 2011, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Jun 30 2011, 08:58 PM) *
I can't think how much more it could be improved. Kinda want to go to a new song now. biggrin.gif


I'm afraid that there is no such thing as the perfect mix. They can always be improved albeit that it takes experience to know how, what and why and to determine whether or not the extra effort is worth the improvement. Keep on practising your mixing on this, or other tracks and build up mixing experience.


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Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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thefireball
post Jul 1 2011, 03:56 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 30 2011, 08:51 PM) *
I can hear the ozone on the drums making them sparkle a bit which is nice wink.gif You've really made good progress on your recording and your playing so well done! As the guys are saying do be careful not to overdo it with ozone but used sparingly and with some custom tweaking of the presets, it's extremely, amazingly, handy.

TODD TIP 1: The boominess that Ivan is talking about shows up once I turn on my subwoofer. With my mixing speakers only, it's fine. But when I hit the sub to see what's happening in the low bass area it gets boomy. What size speakers are you mixing on? If you mix with a speaker system that doesn't have good bass response, your mixes will sound boomy. Conversely, if you mix on a system with bad treble response your mixes will have to much tweet/hiss/scratch/treble.

A couple of ways around this. Try to check your mixes on other speaker systems, even home theatre systems, systems with subwoofers, car stereos, etc


I usually mix with my earbuds. It gives a better sound than my laptop speakers. biggrin.gif I also test it in my car too. Thanks, though for the advice. I'm going to see about purchasing this Ozone thing.

QUOTE (WeePee @ Jul 1 2011, 01:12 AM) *
Yep improving/re-mixing/re-mastering/etc. your songs is a endless job. There's always something to tweak.

But you you have to move on !! wink.gif


happy.gif Thanks.

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jul 1 2011, 03:56 AM) *
I'm afraid that there is no such thing as the perfect mix. They can always be improved albeit that it takes experience to know how, what and why and to determine whether or not the extra effort is worth the improvement. Keep on practising your mixing on this, or other tracks and build up mixing experience.


You mean even with the pros we listen to on the radio and in their CDs? I've heard it said that there's no perfect mix, and that is because a song can be mixed a lot of different ways. What do you think? Does it have a lot to do with the sound you want? More mid, more bass, etc...


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jul 1 2011, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Jul 1 2011, 03:56 PM) *
You mean even with the pros we listen to on the radio and in their CDs? I've heard it said that there's no perfect mix, and that is because a song can be mixed a lot of different ways. What do you think? Does it have a lot to do with the sound you want? More mid, more bass, etc...


Even those - though here you also have to keep in mind that the track that you hear has also been mastered and that you may not be aware of what the producer was trying to achieve. Nonetheless if I listen critically to any commercial CD that we have I can hear mix and production issues. These can range from very minor mix issues about spectral balance etc, through more obvious ones such as unintended noises/artefacts, imaging, etc. through to make issues concerning levels, distortion, etc.

For the last three months or so the magazine has been running a regular article about critical listening of selected, commercial tracks.

BTW most mixes don't need more mid/bass etc but less. It relates to Todd's comment of boom - a common mixing mistake is to keep increaing the bass just because you can't hear it properly but without taking in to account the ability of your speakers and room acoustics to accurately present bass and sub bass frequencies. If you can't hear it properly than you can't make a proper informed decision on what to do.

Also - mixing on headphones is rarely a good idea. They do not present the stereo image and soundstage accurately and cannot present the full 20-20kHz spectrum properly. Whilst they may be better than your laptop speakers try and get a proper set of monitors if you want to carry on mixing and recording.


--------------------
Get your music professionally mastered by anl AES registered Mastering Engineer. Contact me for Audio Mastering Services and Advice and visit our website www.miromastering.com

Be friends on facebook with us here.

We use professional, mastering grade hardware in our mastering studo. Our hardware includes:
Cranesong Avocet II Monitor Controller, Dangerous Music Liasion Insert Hardware Router, ATC SCM Pro Monitors, Lavry Black DA11, Prism Orpheus ADC/DAC, Gyratec Gyraf XIV Parallel Passive Mastering EQ, Great River MAQ 2NV Mastering EQ, Kush Clariphonic Parallel EQ Shelf, Maselec MLA-2 Mastering Compressor, API 2500 Mastering Compressor, Eventide Eclipse Reverb/Echo.
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thefireball
post Jul 1 2011, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jul 1 2011, 10:44 AM) *
Even those - though here you also have to keep in mind that the track that you hear has also been mastered and that you may not be aware of what the producer was trying to achieve. Nonetheless if I listen critically to any commercial CD that we have I can hear mix and production issues. These can range from very minor mix issues about spectral balance etc, through more obvious ones such as unintended noises/artefacts, imaging, etc. through to make issues concerning levels, distortion, etc.

For the last three months or so the magazine has been running a regular article about critical listening of selected, commercial tracks.

BTW most mixes don't need more mid/bass etc but less. It relates to Todd's comment of boom - a common mixing mistake is to keep increaing the bass just because you can't hear it properly but without taking in to account the ability of your speakers and room acoustics to accurately present bass and sub bass frequencies. If you can't hear it properly than you can't make a proper informed decision on what to do.

Also - mixing on headphones is rarely a good idea. They do not present the stereo image and soundstage accurately and cannot present the full 20-20kHz spectrum properly. Whilst they may be better than your laptop speakers try and get a proper set of monitors if you want to carry on mixing and recording.


Thank you! I'll certainly try to get some!


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 1 2011, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Jul 1 2011, 11:19 AM) *
Thank you! I'll certainly try to get some!


Some KILLER advice from Tony here. As a working PRO he knows this stuff back and forth. I had no idea you were mixing on Ear Buds. I have to say I'm a bit shocked to find that out. Given that fact, I"m really impressed that you were able to make the mix sound as good as you did. Ear buds just don't work for "Critical Listening" or mixing. There is a lot going on that you can't hear and you are getting too much midrange so your guitars end up a bit muddier than they need to be.

I understand that gear costs real money and you have to work with what you have. As soon as possible, bday, xmas, graduation, etc. maybe ask for a decent set of mixing speakers as a gift. When you hear what you've been missing, mixing will get a bit easier. For a couple hundred bux you can get some speakers you can start with. High end stuff is probably out of range but a pair of KRK Rockits, or Alesis Studio Ones is within that range. These are NOT high end pro speakers but they are way better than ear buds and your mixes will thank you smile.gif

Todd

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jul 1 2011, 07:54 PM


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thefireball
post Jul 2 2011, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 1 2011, 01:54 PM) *
Some KILLER advice from Tony here. As a working PRO he knows this stuff back and forth. I had no idea you were mixing on Ear Buds. I have to say I'm a bit shocked to find that out. Given that fact, I"m really impressed that you were able to make the mix sound as good as you did. Ear buds just don't work for "Critical Listening" or mixing. There is a lot going on that you can't hear and you are getting too much midrange so your guitars end up a bit muddier than they need to be.

I understand that gear costs real money and you have to work with what you have. As soon as possible, bday, xmas, graduation, etc. maybe ask for a decent set of mixing speakers as a gift. When you hear what you've been missing, mixing will get a bit easier. For a couple hundred bux you can get some speakers you can start with. High end stuff is probably out of range but a pair of KRK Rockits, or Alesis Studio Ones is within that range. These are NOT high end pro speakers but they are way better than ear buds and your mixes will thank you smile.gif

Todd


Thank you very much. smile.gif

And I warmly thank all who have helped me. It's an honor to be learning from the pros.


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