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> Traditional Lessons Vs Online Lessons
rockstaranup
post Jun 21 2011, 09:15 AM
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Hey guys

I am doing my IB extended essay on Online guitar lessons and i thought it might be a good idea to start my research by getting the opinion of lots of people. biggrin.gif

Okay so what do you guys think about online and traditional learning ?

How is one better than the other or what are the positives and negatives of them ?

Im hoping for some interesting answers so that i can get a good grade for my research. cool.gif




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dark dude
post Jun 21 2011, 11:42 AM
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Sure, here are some quick notes of things to think about.

Online:
*Cheaper
*More instructors = more variety when it comes to styles, opinions, and techniques
*More flexible - if you don't make your 8pm lesson, you have to wait until next week
*Community - motivational and you're able to get an idea of what people of all levels are doing


'Traditional':
*One to one tuition
*The instructor can see your playing a lot better, and not just over a clip or a few minutes, but over the whole session. Bad technique is likely to be picked up faster


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rockstaranup
post Jun 21 2011, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE (dark dude @ Jun 21 2011, 10:42 AM) *
Sure, here are some quick notes of things to think about.

Online:
*Cheaper
*More instructors = more variety when it comes to styles, opinions, and techniques
*More flexible - if you don't make your 8pm lesson, you have to wait until next week
*Community - motivational and you're able to get an idea of what people of all levels are doing


'Traditional':
*One to one tuition
*The instructor can see your playing a lot better, and not just over a clip or a few minutes, but over the whole session. Bad technique is likely to be picked up faster

Thanks man


--------------------
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Guitars (Electric):
Fender Mexican Stratocaster
Squier Standard Stratocaster

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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 21 2011, 01:33 PM
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It's an interesting topic for an essay. The only thing that is preventing the full domination of online lessons in technology. In 10 years, multiple screens with 3D capability and high internet speeds will be normal, so we can expect online lessons to become as real as it gets.

With the advances of virtual/3D technologies, transfer protocols, infrastructure, 3D capturing devices and other factors, we will be able to reconstruct the classroom in virtual world, and enable students to participate in group sessions, just as they would in real life. It may sound futuristic, but technology is already here, and it might not take a while before it becomes widely available and almost free for use. The only thing that will be charged then - is the actual price of the production and human knowledge and ideas!

We can already make long-distance conference calls, but the equipment and transfer speed is limited to only a few users. Once these technologies become available for everybody, then we will be able to work like in normal classrooms.

The future of this is not that hard to predict, based on previous experiences:

For example, today's bandwidth lines usually have limitations towards upload speeds. ISPs will often offer 5 times slower upload speeds because of the limitations in infrastructure and protocols. If download speeds of today matched the upload speeds, we would have enough bandwidth to technically make a multiple stream conference for many users.

However, the speed of the internet is increasing and accelerating rate. In 2008, highest average speeds in Japan were around 60 Mbit, and now they are around 95Mbit! Japan is indeed progressing at much higher tempo then the rest of the world, but let's imagine what the speeds will be in 10 years from now? If the speed doubles in 5 years, in 2020 the speeds will easily be around 200-300Mbit around the world, although in Japan they will probably have more smile.gif I remember having 1Mbit line 3 years ago, now I have 9Mbit line, which means it went 9x in 3 years, in 10 years, it will go a lot more.

With that kind of bandwidth, we are free to receive multiple streams of HD 3D video, which is 1920x1080 @ 120 fps. This can be enough for creating virtual classroom. If we apply compression, we can get something around 5Mbits of transfer per user. The resolutions will rise even more, and this will require more bandwitdth, but imagine having virtual classroom even for today's HD standard..









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Gitarrero
post Jun 21 2011, 01:58 PM
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Interesting! Let me add another point of view...pretty one sided though...
I'd say it also depends on your learning experience...what do I mean by that: I would think that a person who always had a "real" teacher might have a hard time with online lessons (at first) since you are pretty much on your own when you are trying to figure out a riff or lick...even if you watch the slow video 100 times, you might still have a problem figuring the timing out by yourself.
As for me, I was taught to play guitar by my father for about a year, until I learned all kinds of chords (including barre) and could play along to basically every single Shadows tune there ever was (since my father played in a Shadows tribute band).
When I started to listen to punk at the age of 14, my father helped me to figure out the chords, but he would let me do most of the work, so I learned quickly to figure out chords and rhythms of a song by ear (and by myself).
What am I driving at: I never had "real" lessons, my father showed me chords and that was basically it. I learned everything else by myself, so online lessons are the way to go for me...I can watch and listen and figure the rest out.
Don't know if that makes sense to you guys...


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rockstaranup
post Jun 21 2011, 02:18 PM
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Thanks for your opinions guys.

QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jun 21 2011, 12:33 PM) *
It's an interesting topic for an essay. The only thing that is preventing the full domination of online lessons in technology. In 10 years, multiple screens with 3D capability and high internet speeds will be normal, so we can expect online lessons to become as real as it gets.

With the advances of virtual/3D technologies, transfer protocols, infrastructure, 3D capturing devices and other factors, we will be able to reconstruct the classroom in virtual world, and enable students to participate in group sessions, just as they would in real life. It may sound futuristic, but technology is already here, and it might not take a while before it becomes widely available and almost free for use. The only thing that will be charged then - is the actual price of the production and human knowledge and ideas!

We can already make long-distance conference calls, but the equipment and transfer speed is limited to only a few users. Once these technologies become available for everybody, then we will be able to work like in normal classrooms.

The future of this is not that hard to predict, based on previous experiences:

For example, today's bandwidth lines usually have limitations towards upload speeds. ISPs will often offer 5 times slower upload speeds because of the limitations in infrastructure and protocols. If download speeds of today matched the upload speeds, we would have enough bandwidth to technically make a multiple stream conference for many users.

However, the speed of the internet is increasing and accelerating rate. In 2008, highest average speeds in Japan were around 60 Mbit, and now they are around 95Mbit! Japan is indeed progressing at much higher tempo then the rest of the world, but let's imagine what the speeds will be in 10 years from now? If the speed doubles in 5 years, in 2020 the speeds will easily be around 200-300Mbit around the world, although in Japan they will probably have more smile.gif I remember having 1Mbit line 3 years ago, now I have 9Mbit line, which means it went 9x in 3 years, in 10 years, it will go a lot more.

With that kind of bandwidth, we are free to receive multiple streams of HD 3D video, which is 1920x1080 @ 120 fps. This can be enough for creating virtual classroom. If we apply compression, we can get something around 5Mbits of transfer per user. The resolutions will rise even more, and this will require more bandwitdth, but imagine having virtual classroom even for today's HD standard..


U have awesome knowledge about technology just as much as you know about guitars. Thanks smile.gif


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Gear
Guitars (Electric):
Fender Mexican Stratocaster
Squier Standard Stratocaster

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Greg Bennett EDEN PLAINS

Amp:
Roland Cube 15x

Effects:
Roland BOSS GT-10

Rock On Forever !
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 21 2011, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE (rockstaranup @ Jun 21 2011, 03:18 PM) *
Thanks for your opinions guys.



U have awesome knowledge about technology just as much as you know about guitars. Thanks smile.gif


Thanks my friend smile.gif


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jstcrsn
post Jun 22 2011, 02:47 AM
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QUOTE (dark dude @ Jun 21 2011, 11:42 AM) *
Sure,
*The instructor can see your playing a lot better, and not just over a clip or a few minutes, but over the whole session. Bad technique is likely to be picked up faster


This is assuming that your guitar teacher is capable of recognizing bad tech.- as mine did not and I am still trying to learn things correctly
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casinostrat
post Jun 22 2011, 04:44 AM
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This is a very interesting topic for me, since I do both. I am a member here at GMC, but I also take lessons once a week with a teacher. My teacher has been playing for about 35 years and is extremely good at both theory and technique and does a great job with his students. In my opinion, there are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches. With a teacher, you have the benefit (presumably), of interaction, being able to ask questions and get answers, and this is especially useful for example if you have a guitar that needs repaired or something of that nature, since many times they can either do the repairs themselves or know someone who can do them. Often they also know the best stores and websites to get good deals on stuff in your area and so forth. Many times online learning does not do this well, even though I have to say that overall GMC handles questions and things of that nature VERY well. Another benefit of having a teacher is the motivation factor, if you have a good teacher they can, through their lessons and instruction, motivate and push you to skill levels at guitar that you may not reach if left to your self. Finally, having a teacher can teach you alot about playing along with a band or other musicians, since some times you are playing along with the teacher. Actually I can think of one other benefit to having a traditional teacher. Copywrite laws being what they are, its increasingly difficult to do lessons of actual songs over the net. Having a traditional teacher deals with this issue quite well most of the time. biggrin.gif Granted there are also weakness to traditional teaching as well. Some players can play great, but do not really teach well, and this can become a nightmare for their students. Also the teacher may tend to lean toward one style of music, for example bluegrass or jazz. What happens when a student comes in and wants to learn how to play thrash metal? cool.gif Some teachers can adapt to a situation like this, some can not. Finally, some teachers do not do well with beginners, and tend to unconsciously assume that since they know for example the paterns for playing pentatonics up and down the neck, then the student does as well. This can be very frustrating for beginners. As far as online lessons go, its true they generally are cheaper, sometimes even free, but perhaps one of the greatest benefits is convience. You work on the lesson at your own pace, when you have time to do it, rather than a regularly scheduled lesson time that you have to work around. Many times online lessons can also introduce you to forms and styles of music you may not otherwise know about. I never really gained an appreciation for groups like Dream Theater, Iron Maiden, and Megadeth till I started working on the lessons in that style here on GMC. Overall then, I say if you can find a good teacher, perhaps a balance of both traditional and online is best.


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Kristofer Dahl
post Jun 22 2011, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jun 22 2011, 03:47 AM) *
This is assuming that your guitar teacher is capable of recognizing bad tech.- as mine did not and I am still trying to learn things correctly


Yes good point - chances are that if your playing gets reviewed by many different instructors (read REC) bad technique won't go unnoticed!


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moleman
post Jun 24 2011, 05:30 AM
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I think there are two main areas where online and in-person lessons compete: Quality of lesson and Involvement.
In my opinion, these are the biggest strengths and weaknesses of the 2 styles, and how a teacher/school seeks to improve these things things is key to it's success.

Involvement
In the words of Benjamin Franklin "Show me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
Until recently I don't believe online lessons could compete with traditional in this regard. It is very difficult to offer the service of a teacher devoting all of their attention to you, and being able to offer instant feedback and advice. No one could move my fingers to show me a G chord over the internet.

When thinking of internet lessons, I think we should draw a distinction between bodies of work such as ultimate-guitar.com etc, who offer articles and tabs, and sites like GMC, where the people who made the lessons remain accessible to provide support.
I don't know how GMC works financially, but I believe it's operation as a subscription based guitar school provides a good incentive for teachers to stay active, and really stand behind their work. Plus the whole REC system is a great idea, and as Kris said, with multiple instructors reviewing your work you can get some great feedback.

Ivan made some great points about technology growing, and enabling the internet to really challenge traditional lessons in terms of student involvement. I believe this will become vital in the future, and we could even see traditional teachers begin using the internet to enhance their in-person lessons.

Quality of lessons

I believe this is an area in which online lessons have a clear advantage. Unless you live in a major metropolitan area, it can be very hard to find a good quality guitar teacher who can teach in the styles you want to learn. There may be only a handful of guitar teachers in your town, and the best one probably already has lots of students.

Online lessons however, can get great teachers from all over the world.
Since you can put a lesson online anytime, I believe this gives teachers more freedom in their daily lives. It is easier to pursue a dream in music, or work full time and still teach, if you have the luxury of being able to work on one lesson for many students over a long period of time.
Plus, because you can make a lesson that many students can use (more than you could teach in a week), I think in some cases it may attract high caliber professional musicians to do online instruction. People who may not want to take 2 or 3 physical students might be ok with making a lesson for 2 or 3 hundred.



Finally, I will give you my own personal experience. Most of it has already been discussed by other people in this thread though.

I live in a medium sized town in Chiba, Japan, and I could only find one guitar teacher near me.
I went to his school and had a trial lesson, and had this conversation:

Teacher: So what do you want to learn?
Me: I love heavy metal like Pantera, metalcore like Unearth, and shred like Paul Gilbert. I want to learn theory, and eventually difficult techniques like sweeping and fast precision playing.
Teacher: ... ... ... I love the blues!! I will teach you the blues, you'll love it. Many rock bands are influenced by the blues!
Me: blink.gif

We played the blues for a while, and he looked at the clock the whole time. I wasn't very impressed.

I almost gave up on guitar lessons when I found GMC. I started by watching the main lesson demos from many instructors and was really impressed by A: how well they played, and B: the wide variety of lessons on offer.
So I joined, and I am super satisfied. I am learning legato from Ben Higgins, and doing Ivan Milenkovic's pentatonic workshops. Then I want to start learning metal riffing from Cosmin Lupu and Lian Gerbino.

So that is great lesson quality, and as far as involvement goes, I can talk to everyone I just mentioned on a forum full of cool people. The Godfather of the site even posted the reply before mine!
Plus I can record myself playing a lesson and then get advice and a grade from the guy who made it, plus at least two other high level players.

In summary
It has always been my dream to play "Floods" from Pantera. And sure enough, there is a lesson on this site from Nevermore's Attila Voros. Not only that, I emailed him and he sent me his POD patches. So now my guitar sounds just like Dimebag's.
Attila freaking Voros from Nevermore is teaching me to play Floods!!!

Traditional lessons just can't compete.

Hope this helps with your essay mate.
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zen
post Jun 24 2011, 07:47 AM
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Good post Moleman .. (Thumbs up)


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rockstaranup
post Jun 25 2011, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (moleman @ Jun 24 2011, 04:30 AM) *
I think there are two main areas where online and in-person lessons compete: Quality of lesson and Involvement.
In my opinion, these are the biggest strengths and weaknesses of the 2 styles, and how a teacher/school seeks to improve these things things is key to it's success.

Involvement
In the words of Benjamin Franklin "Show me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
Until recently I don't believe online lessons could compete with traditional in this regard. It is very difficult to offer the service of a teacher devoting all of their attention to you, and being able to offer instant feedback and advice. No one could move my fingers to show me a G chord over the internet.

When thinking of internet lessons, I think we should draw a distinction between bodies of work such as ultimate-guitar.com etc, who offer articles and tabs, and sites like GMC, where the people who made the lessons remain accessible to provide support.
I don't know how GMC works financially, but I believe it's operation as a subscription based guitar school provides a good incentive for teachers to stay active, and really stand behind their work. Plus the whole REC system is a great idea, and as Kris said, with multiple instructors reviewing your work you can get some great feedback.

Ivan made some great points about technology growing, and enabling the internet to really challenge traditional lessons in terms of student involvement. I believe this will become vital in the future, and we could even see traditional teachers begin using the internet to enhance their in-person lessons.

Quality of lessons

I believe this is an area in which online lessons have a clear advantage. Unless you live in a major metropolitan area, it can be very hard to find a good quality guitar teacher who can teach in the styles you want to learn. There may be only a handful of guitar teachers in your town, and the best one probably already has lots of students.

Online lessons however, can get great teachers from all over the world.
Since you can put a lesson online anytime, I believe this gives teachers more freedom in their daily lives. It is easier to pursue a dream in music, or work full time and still teach, if you have the luxury of being able to work on one lesson for many students over a long period of time.
Plus, because you can make a lesson that many students can use (more than you could teach in a week), I think in some cases it may attract high caliber professional musicians to do online instruction. People who may not want to take 2 or 3 physical students might be ok with making a lesson for 2 or 3 hundred.



Finally, I will give you my own personal experience. Most of it has already been discussed by other people in this thread though.

I live in a medium sized town in Chiba, Japan, and I could only find one guitar teacher near me.
I went to his school and had a trial lesson, and had this conversation:

Teacher: So what do you want to learn?
Me: I love heavy metal like Pantera, metalcore like Unearth, and shred like Paul Gilbert. I want to learn theory, and eventually difficult techniques like sweeping and fast precision playing.
Teacher: ... ... ... I love the blues!! I will teach you the blues, you'll love it. Many rock bands are influenced by the blues!
Me: blink.gif

We played the blues for a while, and he looked at the clock the whole time. I wasn't very impressed.

I almost gave up on guitar lessons when I found GMC. I started by watching the main lesson demos from many instructors and was really impressed by A: how well they played, and B: the wide variety of lessons on offer.
So I joined, and I am super satisfied. I am learning legato from Ben Higgins, and doing Ivan Milenkovic's pentatonic workshops. Then I want to start learning metal riffing from Cosmin Lupu and Lian Gerbino.

So that is great lesson quality, and as far as involvement goes, I can talk to everyone I just mentioned on a forum full of cool people. The Godfather of the site even posted the reply before mine!
Plus I can record myself playing a lesson and then get advice and a grade from the guy who made it, plus at least two other high level players.

In summary
It has always been my dream to play "Floods" from Pantera. And sure enough, there is a lesson on this site from Nevermore's Attila Voros. Not only that, I emailed him and he sent me his POD patches. So now my guitar sounds just like Dimebag's.
Attila freaking Voros from Nevermore is teaching me to play Floods!!!

Traditional lessons just can't compete.

Hope this helps with your essay mate.


U Have already written an essay for me !! biggrin.gif
Thanks for the Information.


--------------------
Gear
Guitars (Electric):
Fender Mexican Stratocaster
Squier Standard Stratocaster

Guitars (Acoustic):
Greg Bennett EDEN PLAINS

Amp:
Roland Cube 15x

Effects:
Roland BOSS GT-10

Rock On Forever !
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moleman
post Jun 26 2011, 08:08 AM
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No problem smile.gif
I'm glad it was useful.
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Rated Htr
post Jun 26 2011, 10:08 AM
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Amongst all the good information that people have pointed out I would just like to add that for me, the main difference is that when you are doing online lessons such as looking at youtube videos, GMC or any lesson community you are still learning things by yourself. The difference is that you may ask questions, get a notion of what is wrong to a certain extent and have some sort of guidance. Tradional lessons can actually tell you what is wrong, prevent you from getting bad habits because the tutor is focused on what you are doing all the time. Sometimes for pupils it is just important to get the lesson down around here. Some start to get bad habits like avoiding the pinky, tensing up, etc.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 26 2011, 11:46 AM
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Metal Riffing you say biggrin.gif well, I'm glad i can be of assistance! Let me know when you have questions or you need any info wink.gif cheerios!


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 26 2011, 01:13 PM
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Excellent post Moleman, very nicely said.


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