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> There Is No Money In Jazz
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 21 2011, 04:06 PM
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Hey guys! I was listening to Mattias and had the idea for this topic... Money is the last thing that a musician thinks on when he decides to dedicate its life to music... or at least that's my case and most of my musician friends...

The experience here in Argentina is that is easier to earn some money playing jazz, hotels or events than with a rock band. If the rock band becomes very known it's posible to earn money but when a musician is unknown its easier to win some money with jazz... What do you think?
Do you think that there is no money in Jazz?




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Sollesnes
post Jun 21 2011, 06:45 PM
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Unless you're famous, there is definitely more money in jazz smile.gif
Jazz = more shows that pays more money. You also have a crowd that doesn't pirate much music- laugh.gif

But of course, if you get famous, there is certaintly most money in pop-rock smile.gif

This post has been edited by Sollesnes: Jun 21 2011, 06:45 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 21 2011, 07:25 PM
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At the street level, yeah, there's more money in jazz, cover bands, Dj work, etc. Really anything that pays the bills is great when you trying to make a living with music. smile.gif But yeah, famous bands can earn quite a bit more. Though many bands that get signed and have a couple of pretty big releases end up with zero money. As I"m sure has been talked about, record labels give the band a "Recoupable", which is basically a loan. This is an advance against royalties. Here is a great blurb from an article talking about how an artist can...

SELL 200,000 RECORDS AND NOT MAKE A DIME

Due to typical Record Label workings.
http://www.rapcoalition.org/label_exec_�...;_breakdown.htm
"So let's take our mid-level artist, and say that she managed to sell 200,000 copies of her latest CD. How does the artist make out? Based on a royalty rate of $1.40 per album, 200,000 CDs sold results in earned income of $280,000. However, before the artist buys her mom a car (or pays off her college loans), she first needs to deal with the dreaded recoupment. If our artist received a $25,000 advance and spent another $115,000 making the record, this $140,000 is deemed recoupable, which means that the label can collect that amount against royalties.
Also, let's assume the artist received $70,000 in tour support (recoupable) and another $70,000 in recoupable video and promotional support (this is usually split between the label and artist). That adds up to $280,000 in recoupable advances, thereby canceling out the $280,000 earned by the artist on points from her CD sales. Royalty-wise, it's a wash"

Thus the inventtion of the 360 DEAL. This is a deal from a label that covers every revenue stream an artist might generate including merchandsing/web related/appearances, etc. Some bands used to make a living off merchandising alone if they sold more Tshirts than CDs as the band used to keep the "merch" profits. No longer. Here is good article on the evolution of the 360 DEAL
http://www.ivanhoffman.com/allaround.html

But that's all for those signed to a medium to large record label. As you well know, those deals are getting fewer and fewer. The good news is there has never been a better time to be an "Indie" artist or group. The Web/Internet and rise of cheap recording hardware/software have turned the music biz upside down. Now the "Little Guy" has access to inernational distribution via the web, good recordings using a laptop and DAW, free promo with Social media etc.

In short, the label thing was almost a scam from the start and it had to go sooner or later. Also, with the death of "Value Added Plastic" EG The Compact Disc, distribution is back in the hands of the Artist. So go forth! And be your own best resource. Where to start? Here is a great blog post from an Indie musician on taking your next steps.

http://stevenquiry.wordpress.com/2011/03/0...pendent-artist/

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jun 21 2011, 07:27 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 21 2011, 10:42 PM
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That's the reality Gab, it's tragic. It's so unreal when you listen to old school rockers when they start talking about the "good ol' days" and how much they earned, it really makes me wonder where it all went. It's even worse for most metal genres, there is simply no audience, compared to rock, which can at least be commercial to some extent..

Jazz musicians are doing gigs to pay the rent, and I respect that a lot. I would do it as well, but here in Belgrade, there aren't many places you can do that, and I'm not that great jazz player to do it, they kick biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 22 2011, 03:48 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 21 2011, 03:25 PM) *
At the street level, yeah, there's more money in jazz, cover bands, Dj work, etc. Really anything that pays the bills is great when you trying to make a living with music. smile.gif But yeah, famous bands can earn quite a bit more. Though many bands that get signed and have a couple of pretty big releases end up with zero money. As I"m sure has been talked about, record labels give the band a "Recoupable", which is basically a loan. This is an advance against royalties. Here is a great blurb from an article talking about how an artist can...

SELL 200,000 RECORDS AND NOT MAKE A DIME

Due to typical Record Label workings.
http://www.rapcoalition.org/label_exec_...;_breakdown.htm
"So let's take our mid-level artist, and say that she managed to sell 200,000 copies of her latest CD. How does the artist make out? Based on a royalty rate of $1.40 per album, 200,000 CDs sold results in earned income of $280,000. However, before the artist buys her mom a car (or pays off her college loans), she first needs to deal with the dreaded recoupment. If our artist received a $25,000 advance and spent another $115,000 making the record, this $140,000 is deemed recoupable, which means that the label can collect that amount against royalties.
Also, let's assume the artist received $70,000 in tour support (recoupable) and another $70,000 in recoupable video and promotional support (this is usually split between the label and artist). That adds up to $280,000 in recoupable advances, thereby canceling out the $280,000 earned by the artist on points from her CD sales. Royalty-wise, it's a wash"

Thus the inventtion of the 360 DEAL. This is a deal from a label that covers every revenue stream an artist might generate including merchandsing/web related/appearances, etc. Some bands used to make a living off merchandising alone if they sold more Tshirts than CDs as the band used to keep the "merch" profits. No longer. Here is good article on the evolution of the 360 DEAL
http://www.ivanhoffman.com/allaround.html

But that's all for those signed to a medium to large record label. As you well know, those deals are getting fewer and fewer. The good news is there has never been a better time to be an "Indie" artist or group. The Web/Internet and rise of cheap recording hardware/software have turned the music biz upside down. Now the "Little Guy" has access to inernational distribution via the web, good recordings using a laptop and DAW, free promo with Social media etc.

In short, the label thing was almost a scam from the start and it had to go sooner or later. Also, with the death of "Value Added Plastic" EG The Compact Disc, distribution is back in the hands of the Artist. So go forth! And be your own best resource. Where to start? Here is a great blog post from an Indie musician on taking your next steps.

http://stevenquiry.wordpress.com/2011/03/0...pendent-artist/


Great post Todd! I really agree with your thoughts about being an indie musician or band nowadays. I bookmarked the article about promoting your music yourself. Thanks Todd!

QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jun 21 2011, 06:42 PM) *
That's the reality Gab, it's tragic. It's so unreal when you listen to old school rockers when they start talking about the "good ol' days" and how much they earned, it really makes me wonder where it all went. It's even worse for most metal genres, there is simply no audience, compared to rock, which can at least be commercial to some extent..

Jazz musicians are doing gigs to pay the rent, and I respect that a lot. I would do it as well, but here in Belgrade, there aren't many places you can do that, and I'm not that great jazz player to do it, they kick biggrin.gif


yeah, that's all so true... Metal audience is small here too and even more for the national bands..


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